carleton
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 277
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Post by carleton on May 6, 2012 13:39:51 GMT -5
Hello,
Not sure if this is the ideal place to post, but looked to be the closest fit.
I guess you could say I am working on a personal project collecting info and pics of early examples of jewelry. I am a bit of a history nut, my last artistic profession was in the full time reproduction of historical (sometimes museum quality, more so not) items. None of which were based around gems. So now that I have found this great hobby, I was hoping to bring the two together.
I specialized mostly in ancient Greece, but worked right into the 16th century. I was wondering if anyone studies historical examples of jewelry, or jewel encrusted arms and armour (preferably armour) and has any suggestions where to start? books? links? museum exhibits?
I feel a bit lazy asking for other peoples hard work, but it took me the better part of 10 years to compile my own notes and research in other projects. I share as much as i can and hand out my research frequently and was hoping perhaps others feel the same when it comes to educating and kick starting other peoples research.
Thanks in advance to any help or direction.
Carleton
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unclestu
Cave Dweller
WINNER OF THE FIRST RTH KILLER CAB CONTEST UNCLESTU'S AGUA NUEVA AGATE
Member since April 2011
Posts: 2,298
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Post by unclestu on May 6, 2012 17:02:14 GMT -5
Wow Carlton that sound really cool. Hmm ancient jewelry you say. Sounds like you are talking beyond antique
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grayfingers
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Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Post by grayfingers on May 6, 2012 18:15:51 GMT -5
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Post by gr on May 6, 2012 18:33:02 GMT -5
Some issues of National geographic have presented pics of some pretty cool jewel encrusted pieces. Off hand can't tell you which issues. I remember while looking at the pics and thinking, how we have refined our abilites to set a stone into a bezel setting. Share some pics of your endevor if you can
gr
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Post by mohs on May 6, 2012 19:23:18 GMT -5
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Post by helens on May 6, 2012 22:47:11 GMT -5
Here's a few links for you Carleton. Not sure if you are looking for images, or historical data... or as Ed suggested, the reasons for jewelry. So starting at the very beginning: www.allaboutgemstones.com/jewelry_history_early_man.html- The History of Jewellery: Origins of Jewellery Design - the bibliography here gives a wonderful variety of books that get into specific cultures You mention a particular interest in Greco-Roman Jewelry. Here's a great article, with photos of specific pieces from the Hellenistic Age: www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/hjew/hd_hjew.htm- as I recall, the Met has a lot of these priceless pieces on display in NYC Here is a less scholarly type of site that lists a quick history of Jewelry useage, with photos of pieces you can expand on for further info, that gives you a very broad glimpse of jewelry through the ages to help you focus in on a specific era of interest: www.fashion-era.com/jewellery.htmThese are all general overview sites... if you can ask more specific questions, I can probably help you with more specific links.
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Post by helens on May 6, 2012 23:07:29 GMT -5
As for jewelry that decorated armor and weapons... there are so many eras, it's hard to know where to start. Viking warrior jewelry? Roman warrior jewelry? Medieval knight jewelry? Crusader knight jewelry (remember, the Templars took Jerusalem and conquered a vast chunk of the Ottoman Empire's wealth... this changed the jewelry of the time). Heck, pirate jewelry:). There's a museum at Key West that has a large percentage of the treasures raised from the Atocha where you can physically see the pieces worn in the 1600s. The ship sank laden with treasure bound for Spain: www.melfisher.org/ Museum sites are the best for authenticity, but there are also a bazillion websites selling replicas. Another great way to see what jewelry was used is to look at paintings of the subjects from the time. Paintings, coins, perfume boxes, urns, stone carvings, etc, which will give you a size of scale and proportions and types of jewelry in actual use. Again, can help more if you are very specific about what you are looking for.
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Post by mohs on May 6, 2012 23:26:42 GMT -5
O you had to bring up the Templars , Helen ! don't get me started They worshiped a bearded head called the Baphomet it looked like this only bearded of course I really enjoyed the history of jewelry links
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Post by mohs on May 6, 2012 23:30:33 GMT -5
O and someone mentioned the history of metallurgy a favorite subject :2cents: mostly
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carleton
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 277
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Post by carleton on May 7, 2012 1:30:11 GMT -5
Wow, thank you all kindly, great stuff! Stu, yes definitely past antiques Love the bronze and iron age, and there is an almost cult following of the 14th century, another popular era. Thank you Grayfingers, some really detailed work there. Gr, I did a good search and was happy to find they actually have a reproduction store with period reproductions and info on the originals, perfect! Ed, not sure I have what it takes to write a book, but I guess you never know where projects end up. I like the questions, a book in themselves. As it was, the reasons in my research range from trophies, wealthy bragging rights, military and political significance to the more romantic ideas of fidelity, chivalry and fealty to your love, your lord (in terms of hierarchy) or even your beliefs. I know the Roman soldiers were often issued or hand made "legion" rings where they would "scratch" their unit on it. Another (in my opinion comical) story or perhaps legend, was the Romans attraction to purple (loosely reserved for "royalty"). When Amethysts were discovered to the south, they became (from what I remember, possibly vaguely) the most sought after and precious gem, I assume the traders caught this and fibbed on the over abundance of supply and squeezed the market for every gold piece they could. I would again assume it was when the empire expanded and territory containing an abundance of amethyst and amethyst mines were discovered and conquered the gem lost its worth vastly. I just get a good chuckle imagining the traders scheming and hiding the volumes. Human nature has not changed much Helen! lol, after I wrote the opening post I sat back and said, "if someone asked that in an area I was educated in, it would be too vague to even touch" So I was praying that I would get asked for a detailed era, location etc.... figured I would ride it out first though as I am interested in various things and was concerned I would be sounding too picky. Those links are great! Thank you. As for specifics? 14th century European belt buckles and pendants is what I am focusing on most at the moment. Viking jewelry from in and around the 8th century. All things Greek from 8th century BC to about 4th century BC. I focus the least on weapons, but heavily on armour, ideally European plate pre gun powder era. Parade armours etc... thank you for the questions Helen, and for the help. Very impressed, great community! Carleton
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Post by helens on May 7, 2012 1:53:34 GMT -5
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Post by helens on May 7, 2012 2:11:04 GMT -5
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on May 7, 2012 9:49:11 GMT -5
I look back at this and wonder "how in the hell did they make such awesome carvings without a dremel?". They had to work for years on a lot of those pieces of jade. I look at my carving and think "I am never going to finish this" which is realistic time of 100 to 200 hours. A lifetime to us but a masterpiece to them because time had to mean nothing. The goal had to be nothing less than the best with no time constraints. If it took one of us several years to make a pendant we would never get any made. lol
Another thing that I picked up from grayfingers first link was that government has not changed much. Here is a quote from the article.
Gift giving was a fundamental activity at the great Islamic courts for various purposes: to further diplomatic and political ambitions;
Do you see any similarities there. lol Jim
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Post by mohs on May 7, 2012 11:54:04 GMT -5
Jim that funny!! Plus ! How did they drill those pendant holes?
no dremel-- no diamond drill bits Us with all our electrical devices still a struggle mostly
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Post by mohs on May 7, 2012 12:13:16 GMT -5
Carelton that real interesting about the Romans purple and royalty Fascinating subject. As are the Phoenicians. they were ancient mariner that traded in a purple dye that was highly valued they made it from certain snail and the recipe was highly guarded secret. Ed
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carleton
spending too much on rocks
Member since April 2012
Posts: 277
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Post by carleton on May 15, 2012 14:44:54 GMT -5
Helen, Perfect links, its hard filtering out the thousands of modern "not so correct" examples on the net, some good educational info there. I think I have spent about 12 hours on the MET site since Friday, and next will definitely be the British museum, not sure why I remember getting little results in years past, maybe they have changed their format, lots of good stuff to be found now. The "whys", all of the above I suppose I love the study, I collect period pieces, I re-create items constantly and have a lot of contacts in living history societies etc... Some are so critical they will pass up a piece priced 90% less if it so much as has a rivet out of place. I would not say I write papers so to speak, but rather a detailed reference library, snippets and important points, reference pictures etc. One year I spent a great deal of it focusing on the Greek Fibula. One would assume you could nail that specific topic in an afternoon read, it just amazes me at just how much depth their is to one specific "thing". I must have had hundreds of pages of research on just the fibula (A damaging flood destroyed most of my reference library though). Its a cool way to finish a long day, researching a project to maybe tackle the next day. Ed, That is really interesting, makes sense too. Its always the rare and highly desired that tend to birth secretive supply and recipes. I have/had a book, it read like an encyclopedia about what would seem to be every single plant available during the time and what the results were from their use in various recipes for dyes. I don't remember any producing that "royal" purple. Adds more fuel to the snail legend. Maybe I should look for a book focusing on "snail dye" instead ;D I will be sure to share anything I make, I did kind of jump the gun a few days ago and made a "medieval inspired" cross, lol. First time ever attempting to hand make a mold and cast it. I aged it a bit, tried to rough it up. Garnets seemed to be the most popular, so I went with them, and then took some creative licensing, wanting a blue stone in the middle and having no "blue" sap hires I went with blue apatite. Carleton
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Post by helens on May 23, 2012 22:13:57 GMT -5
Carleton, sorry, I didn't see this note earlier:). The British Museum has a WEALTH of information, I guess they're still cataloging... remember there was a time that "the sun never sets on the British Empire"... well they busily pillaged everything they could from everywhere they went. No other museum on earth would have as many antiquities as they do, so I can imagine that even on their website (like their massive vaults and hidden storage) they have a certain amount of disarray. For example, their Fishburn find that I separately linked wasn't even included in their Medieval index, and that's a pretty important find. THERE you will find some STUFF!!! Another surprising cache of crazy medieval stuff are monasteries in NY of all places. The Cloisters in NYC has a trove you wouldn't believe. I grew up in Manhattan as a child, and all of the City was my playground. There's a small church at the subway stop just before you get to the cloisters with an actual petrified saint... I forgot what they are called now... where the church deemed that someone simply did not decay and therefore was a saint? Well, she's in a crystal coffin in a small church the subway stop before the Cloisters. Gaah... I need to see if I can find it online. OK! They are called 'Incorruptible bodies'. listverse.com/2007/08/21/top-10-incorrupt-corpses/I don't see the one in NYC, but it's VERY close to the Cloisters if you ever get there. The Cloisters collection of medieval art will completely blow your mind, and there's no way they could possibly have that trove cataloged online. I just took a quick look, and apparently, the Met bought it... so maybe that's actually what we've been looking at on the Met too, part of that collection. But you have to SEE the collection to believe it.
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Post by helens on May 23, 2012 22:19:56 GMT -5
I found her! www.mothercabrini.org/ministries/shrine_ny.aspWhen I used to go there, this was not the bldg she was in... it was a very small and nondescript church and after school I would sometimes take the subway there by myself and just sit next to her body for hours. I don't know why:). There was almost never anyone there with me, but that could be the time of day. I see they moved her to a much nicer place.
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Post by mohs on May 24, 2012 10:49:36 GMT -5
The cross is really neat Carleton I like to make a rose cross using a garnet and idea I just haven't got to yet
Incorruptible bodies ? and enduring subject....
Ed
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xXxAlisha91xXx
spending too much on rocks
Member since February 2012
Posts: 284
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Post by xXxAlisha91xXx on May 24, 2012 15:30:34 GMT -5
Carleton, that cross is really pretty! How long did it take you to make the mold and cast it? I think it came out really well! Interesting about the incorrupt corpses, Helen. That's the first time I've heard of them. Looks like a may need to make a trip to New York to see her
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