|
Post by Bluesky78987 on Aug 20, 2012 20:17:52 GMT -5
I'm trying to decide. I think I know how this will turn out, but would love to hear your thoughts.
10" Covington trim/slab combo saw running with water lubrication. I don't plan to walk off and leave it much. I don't want to fiddle around with it too much either. And, I want it to go as fast as it can reasonably go on a particular rock without ruining my blade, as time is my limiting factor. I don't want to build anything much or retrofit anything much.
So, which one should I ask John to send me? Power drive or gravity?
Thanks All!
Oh, and I have a LOT of rocks to slab, so we're not talking about the occasional rock here and there. This is going to be one busy little saw.
|
|
|
Post by rockmanken on Aug 20, 2012 20:35:41 GMT -5
No brainer. POWER DRIVE. Ken
|
|
|
Post by Rockoonz on Aug 20, 2012 21:21:37 GMT -5
If you have LOTS to slab, and you plan to run the saw nonstop for hours at a time, then that style of saw is not for you. Lots of folks on the forum have had major problems specifically with the covington. It has a very low capacity coolant sump which will cause it to run hot and cause a lot of problems, especially short blade life. Find a 12 inch regular slab saw.
Lee
|
|
|
Post by jakesrocks on Aug 20, 2012 21:33:16 GMT -5
I have an old 10" Covington with power feed. I've had no trouble with it. But I've heard bad things about the power feed on their newer saws.
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,471
|
Post by Sabre52 on Aug 20, 2012 21:41:36 GMT -5
Yeah, Water as a coolant is pretty hard on your blades too. Saws just work better with oil as coolant IMHO. I just got a new Covington 10" w.power feed last year. Fair warning, this saw must not have been designed by folks who use saws much. Tray is hard to dismount for cleaning ( Turn bolts upside down or else you'll never get them back in.) Clutch is touchier than Hell and needs lots of adjustment. Vice hold down system has issues. My power feed overheats if used to long. The table top is so shallow oil leaks all over, the hood leaks so much oil you have to hang a towel over it to prevent spray from going all over. The vice is undersized ( My old beacon star had a way larger vice and worked swell for twenty years or more).The blade supplied with it is very flimsy and whoever designed the drains for cleaning the saw was a moron as they don't extend out far enough for you to get a bucket under them. I replumbed mine and have mine on a table to catch the oil overflow. Other than those things , it's an OK saw *L*. I'll spend more and get the Barranca 14 if I ever buy another saw. That's a real fine rig.....Mel
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Aug 20, 2012 22:05:28 GMT -5
The new Barranca 10" is pretty sweet too.
|
|
|
Post by catmandewe on Aug 20, 2012 22:16:30 GMT -5
I would definitely go with Barranca over Covington any day. And if you are wanting to do much slabbing 10" is pretty limiting as to what you can cut. Most people need a 10" and a larger one, but the 10" is a good place to start. Like most of them said, water is going to be hard on your equipment, oil is better. I prefer gravity feed but if you use too much weight you will ruin your blade. If you are not used to cutting, then a powerl feed may work better until you get the feel for it.
Tony
PS- Mel, you crack me up!
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,471
|
Post by Sabre52 on Aug 20, 2012 23:03:43 GMT -5
Tony: My Covington made me so mad last time I had a cutting session that I haven't used it for months. That fraking saw, as the hippies say, " Harshes my cool!".....Mel
PS: MY ancient Beacon Star 10 inch which finally shorted out and burnt up after like 20 years of more. ( I bought it used for a couple of hundred bucks) was the best saw I ever had. I could vice up a 3" by 5" rock, turn it on ( no clutch or anything fancy) and go mow the fraking lawn while it ran. It would cut prefect and shut itself off. The Covington looks OK but I have to sit right nearby and be ready to run over and shut it down when it screws up ( which it does a lot, usually due to clutch adjustment, overheating, or the rock riding up the blade and jamming against the blade guard). The Covington takes a fraking mechanical engineer to keep it running. And that clutch, *L* I talked with the guy at Covington and he give me this song and dance about using a fishing scale measure pressure and set the clutch. Heck, it takes a fraking genie in a magic lamp to figure out the sorcery of that damn clutch!
|
|
|
Post by Bluesky78987 on Aug 21, 2012 1:10:49 GMT -5
Cmon y'all, it's not "Dump on Cov" day. I read a bunch of other threads earlier this year where some of you same people raved about your 10" Covingtons. ;-) Maybe you had just gotten them back then?
Appreciate all the comments, but, the question is just Power or Gravity, 10" saw, on water with lube in it. No larger saw, no oil. It's either a 10" with water, or just the 7" tile saw. Also, no Barranca. Its power feed is single speed only. It will take me an hour (ok, at 8 minutes per inch, 3" rock, half an hour) to slab a hunk of Mohs 3 howlite. That would make me want to kill myself.
Somebody said the Cov power feed is problematic, which I've heard. That's one reason for gravity. Gravity self-adjusts to your rock hardness, and goes faster for softer rocks, that's another reason. Apparently the Cov clutch sux, good to know, another reason for gravity feed (clutch is only for power feed, right Mel?)
What are the negatives of gravity feed? Or the positives of power feed? (I've read about the bucket of water trick to slow it down at the end of the slab).
Ken, why do you say power drive no question?
How come there are twice as many votes so far for power drive, but no reasons yet for power drive over gravity feed? Do gravity feed fans go to bed early or something? ;-)
(Let's assume for kicks that I either am a pro at cutting or can figure it out without ruining too many blades). Anyway, blades are cheap compared to saws and time.
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Aug 21, 2012 1:40:21 GMT -5
Gravity vote here. I’ve got a Lortone drop saw and it cuts smoooooth and true. Too many of the slabs I’ve bought remind me of potato chips - Rrrruffles have rrrridges – and I’m willing to bet power feeds are the culprit more often than not. The slabs are usually not flat and true either.
|
|
jason12x12
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2011
Posts: 798
|
Post by jason12x12 on Aug 21, 2012 2:19:24 GMT -5
I.have a beacon star ten that I got from estate sale for under.a.hundred dollars and burnt up the motor in a c ouple months easily replaced 20$...no problems for ten months ..i can't think that slabbing could be any easier. power feed with a pulley for gravity already part of the machine clean cuts every time ...no vibration oil lube load it and forget it you can't improve the design.i ve cut 6 inch stones before just tap with hammer no problem ..i just know me if i tried gravity i would tinker too much trying to cut faster and blow myself up explosions are bad ..anyway my 2¢good.luck
|
|
LarryS
freely admits to licking rocks
SoCal desert rats
Member since August 2010
Posts: 781
|
Post by LarryS on Aug 21, 2012 8:12:19 GMT -5
As you know by our e-mail conversations plus reading all my past posts, I'm probably the one who complained the most about the Covington. But I solved all those issues and it runs fine now. Biggest problem was using Lube Cool, which is total crap and should be taken off the market. Switched over to synthetic Gem Lube from Kingsley North and solved all my problems. Lubes almost as good as oil without the filth and disposal issues. I, like you, using oil is totally out of the question. Gravity or power feed? Why not both? I haven't had to use my gravity feed since I switched over to Gem Lube. Stuff lubes great, minimal blade sharpening, motors don't heat up and most of all, it doesn't foam up. Protects on rust too. I never had a clutch problem. Covington's vice will hold a 3 1/2" x 3 1/2" rock. Silicone a 1" Home Depot aluminum angle on the left side to keep the slop inside. Over all coolant capacity is about 2 quarts and won't break the bank to change it out.
Everything runs cool and quiet with a 303C blade. I'm enjoying the thicker .050 blade I'm using now, very stable but it costs much more than the .040. Many say the 301C blade is better but don't know about the noise since the 303C is a continuous rim. Tried porcelain blades but they are too noisy and were getting my neighbor's attention. I still use my 303P .060 blade when I know my neighbor will be out of town. He lets me know in advance. He loves looking at my slabs but just tolerates the noisy blades, so I'm not going to push it. I'm concerned about noise like you. And remember, a 303C from JSGems is only $55. Since you want water cooled slab/trim combo, the Covington should do you good. And use your clubs big saws for the boulders. Oh, changing the pulley sizes to increase the blade speed from 1725 to 2200 rpm was a major improvement too.
FYI My vote is for power feed.
LarryS
|
|
Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,471
|
Post by Sabre52 on Aug 21, 2012 9:32:38 GMT -5
Blue: Just trying to warn you about some of the Covington's shortcomings *S*. Yes, the clutch is associated with the power feed. Again, water is not a good idea and does not cool as well as oil type coolants. I agree the 303 series of blade are very good. Gravity feed is very tricky to adjust, must be readjusted often as you change rock hardnesses, and can be hard on blades and cause rapid dishing. I tried to switch my Beacon Star over to gravity after the power feed bunt up but then the motor went so I gave up and bought the Covington. As you can see from my post above and from Larry's. It takes a lot of modifications and then it's only, IMHO, an OK saw....Mel
|
|
|
Post by Bluesky78987 on Aug 21, 2012 9:42:12 GMT -5
Thanks Mel. So you vote power over gravity because (a) gravity is too fiddly, (b) easy to screw up the blade if you're not careful with gravity?
(It's either a saw with water with no saw.)
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Aug 21, 2012 10:01:32 GMT -5
If you really want fast and furious and water cooled the MK101 is the fastest 10" saw I've ever used. With the 301 blade you can shove 4" agates through like a meat slicer. You can plunge cut up to 7". Noisy and throws water to both sides but a saw Tim the Tool Man would love.
|
|
|
Post by Bluesky78987 on Aug 21, 2012 10:11:20 GMT -5
Lol. That sounds completely awesome. Pretty sure the neighbors wouldn't be thrilled though.
|
|
|
Post by johnjsgems on Aug 21, 2012 10:32:27 GMT -5
Barranca saws usually run 1" in 5 minutes. That is a 3" rock in 15 minutes. I've never timed my 24" HP but I set it at slowest speed when I bought it and never adjusted it again. Hard dense rocks come off the saw almost polished and no saw marks. Slow feeds like this with a good blade gives you smooth cuts and long blade life. I could never understand why any hobbyist would want to cut in a hurry. By the way, if you want to go with gravity feed cut by hand feeding until you learn how the saw sounds. You can quickly learn the sounds of feeding to fast. Set up the gravity feed to "sound right".
|
|
|
Post by Bluesky78987 on Aug 21, 2012 10:38:03 GMT -5
Yeah, I've done lots and lots of hand feeding at the club. I can now pretty much slab a 3.5" rock by hand . . . practice makes perfect.
The reason hobbyists want to go fast is they don't have a lot of time. I work full time. Time is my limiting factor, by a large margin.
I still haven't decided, neither "side" has convinced me yet.
|
|
|
Post by parfive on Aug 21, 2012 13:42:44 GMT -5
Gravity is like herpes – it’s forever. It never slips/needs adjustment/wears out/quits/fails/breaks/malfunctions or shorts out and parts are never hard to find. Man’s best friend. Women fear it, hate it, don’t trust it and when all is said and done, buy power feed.
|
|
QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,634
|
Post by QuailRiver on Aug 21, 2012 13:43:12 GMT -5
I haven't used a Covington 10" saw but my cousin bought one new w/powerfeed and had problems with it so he bought a Barranca a few months later. I realize this isn't the answer to the question you are looking for but $800.00+ is a lot to pay for a piece of equipment only to immediately have problems with it. Personally if I were going to buy a gravity feed 10" slab saw to use with water based coolant it would be, without hesitation, the ROCKS 10" Trim-Slab saw #8237 made by Polaris Tool and Machines in Ohio. The ROCKS 10" Saw are a Great design and run about the same cost as the Covington 10" gravity feed ($790 w/o blade). www.arrowheadlapidarysupply.com/catalog/item.php?unid=6366&prodpa=When I want to saw with water based coolant I use an older Raytech saw with powerfeed that I picked up at an estate sale. The hinged table and removable plastic reservoir make it easy to clean up after use. But most of the parts are made of steel and have to be oiled down, after using water. For sawing with oil my favorite 10" saw is the old trusty Lortone. Those Lortone 10" saws were great saws and I don't understand why Lortone stopped producing them. I would rather have a good used 10" Lortone than a new saw of any other brand 10" on the market. If I were to have to choose between the new 10" saws with powerfeed that are on the market today, I would probably choose the Barranca or the Diamond Pacific TC-10 if I could find a dealer with reasonable price. I sincerely hope I haven't frustrated you by not giving a direct answer to your question and I hope whatever you decide on meets your needs perfectly!
|
|