Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,462
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 12:52:37 GMT -5
Post by Sabre52 on Sept 3, 2012 12:52:37 GMT -5
Helen you are hopeless. Still hiding the dollars behind the percentages. If spending is astronomically high in the first place a 1.4% increase is huge in dollars. If lower in the first place, a nine percent increase is small in dollars. Put simply, 1.4% of trillions is smaller than 9 % of billions DUh!!!! And for crying out loud, how in your strange way of thinking is , if Bush was hog wild on spending and Obama spends even more in a shorter period, can Obama be a better deal? Is a greater wrong somehow better in your mind? *L* Given Obama's rate in increasing the national debt, if left in place at that spending speed, he'd increase it to something like 22 trillion in another four years....Mel
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 14:38:58 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 14:38:58 GMT -5
Yah right. I posted the figures directly from the US Treasury Dept site. Which tabloid did you get yours from:)? You don't want to READ the Gov't sites themselves, not from the Treasury, not from the IRS, not from the Congressional Budget Office. Then you throw out tabloid numbers *facepalm*. Hmmm. Helen, please post the link to the page on www.treasury.gov that has this chart. Thanks, Bill Ok, here's from the Treasury Dept database: www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/histdebt/histdebt_histo5.htmFrom these archives: www.treasurydirect.gov/govt/reports/pd/mspd/mspd.htmYou can use the above and do your own spreadsheet, but here's the spreadsheets done for you by Adelphi University: home.adelphi.edu/sbloch/deficits.htmlPlease note Table 3... hrm... Now since you may not trust a University Professor to do the number crunching, please do it yourself. I think the chart may in fact not be correct... Obama actually REDUCED the debt per this guy by 329 billion in the last 2 years (because the FIRST year a President takes office, 2009, he has 0 impact on anything as that's when he formulates and delivers his first budget for the FOLLOWING year). Even if you can't parse out the numbers yourself, you can still see the % increase:). And Mel, math 'trickery'? If your wife used your credit card and spent $100,000, and you only make say $15 a month payment while the interest tacks on and grows and grows. Then you take the credit card away, and only use it $15 a month, tell me, does your debt grow? Why's that? Now that you've taken the card, you created her debt too:)? This is hard to understand and comparable to pissing down your neck?
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 14:40:46 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 14:40:46 GMT -5
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 14:43:01 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 14:43:01 GMT -5
Oh, and in case you didn't believe David Stockman, Reagan's chairman of the OMB, the man who formulated 'supply-side economics' and today sees it as a completely stupid idea himself, here's ANOTHER Reagan Economics advisor for ya:
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 14:44:46 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 14:44:46 GMT -5
Oh, and in case I forgot... vote for Mitt Romney because he's a business man... a wall street guy even!!
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 14:56:25 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 14:56:25 GMT -5
And this one is gratuitous:
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,462
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:15:13 GMT -5
Post by Sabre52 on Sept 3, 2012 15:15:13 GMT -5
Helen; The whole question is simple to me. Obama was elected to office and said as part of his pledge that he was going to reduce the national debt. He did not, he grew it instead and continues to do so by turning in deficit budgets. Something like 1.4 trillion more for this year right? This is irresponsible and stupid. Bush did it and you criticize him. Heck, I'd criticize him for that. Obama does it and you love him. I expected Obama to pay the debt down just like I would the credit card bill you mentioned. Not just pay a bit on the interest and fraking keep spending like a madman like he has. As long as the debt clock is going up, someone is doing something wrong. If Romney does not cut spending I won't like him much either but, like Obama says, we're in a car heading for a cliff and no matter how you portray the math, Obama is speeding the car up. Time to give some other folks the chance to fix the problem and if they don't, then that's a discussion for another day. Couple of more months and we'll see if Obama has bought and BS'd himself a re election or American has woke up. I'm content to wait and see.....Mel
PS: treasury Department statistic huh? Ain't that run by the gentlemen who didn't pay his own taxes or forgot to or some such BS. Wow just as trustworthy as a Holder or Napolitano huh?
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:19:34 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 15:19:34 GMT -5
Helen; The whole question is simple to me. Obama was elected to office and said as part of his pledge that he was going to reduce the national debt. He did not, he grew it instead and continues to do so by turning in deficit budgets. Something like 1.4 trillion more for this year right? This is irresponsible and stupid. Bush did it and you criticize him. Heck, I'd criticize him for that. Obama does it and you love him. I expected Obama to pay the debt down just like I would the credit card bill you mentioned. Not just pay a bit on the interest and fraking keep spending like a madman like he has. As long as the debt clock is going up, someone is doing something wrong. If Romney does not cut spending I won't like him much either but, like Obama says, we're in a car heading for a cliff and no matter how you portray the math, Obama is speeding the car up. Time to give some other folks the chance to fix the problem and if they don't, then that's a discussion for another day. Couple of more months and we'll see if Obama has bought and BS'd himself a re election or American has woke up. I'm content to wait and see.....Mel I just posted a whole series of Treasury Dept links and their corresponding spreadsheets from a University. He DID start reducing the debt, but our Federal income is insufficient to cover the minimum payments due to Bush's tax cuts. So back to the wife with credit card racked up $100K example... you now have the credit card, you struggle to pay it down, but you are limited by your income. Is the solution to give your wife the credit card back, Mel? Because voting for Romney is voting for Bush again.
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grayfingers
Cave Dweller
Member since November 2007
Posts: 4,575
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:22:38 GMT -5
Post by grayfingers on Sept 3, 2012 15:22:38 GMT -5
lol Helen, I asked you for the link to the ridiculous chart you posted that you said you got straight off the treasury site while saying our information was coming from tabloids. That is where you got your chart, a Lib website, or moveon.org's facebook page. As I pointed out in the Washington Post fact check in which the chart received 4 Four Pinocchios, The person who posted this on Facebook noted: “From the US Treasury Dept — any questions?” But it actually is not a Treasury Department calculation, just manipulated data taken from the Treasury Web site. But this chart, originally created by the office of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, is as phony as a three-dollar bill. www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/a-bogus-chart-on-obama-and-the-debt-gets-a-new-lease-on-life/2011/09/28/gIQAx40Y6K_blog.html
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,462
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:28:29 GMT -5
Post by Sabre52 on Sept 3, 2012 15:28:29 GMT -5
Oh yeah, interest on the national debt 2009-2011 is like 1.3 trillion dollars. Debt went up over five trillion in that time. Someone is still spending a lot of money *L*. The solution is to control the credit card, reduce the number of government employees, eliminate redundant or duplicate programs and stop spending. The real fat cats are in the government and many of them serve no purpose at all except to intrude on citizens and over regulate everyone.And voting for Obama is like raising the limit on the credit card so he can maintain his out of control spending *L*..Mel
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:32:39 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 15:32:39 GMT -5
And Mel, you know that teachers are civil servants. YOU worked as a civil servant. YOUR income derived from the Gov't. When one of those children is super smart, you can envision his future as someone great. And RIGHT NOW, he can get that education through grants from the Gov't, even if his parents aren't rich. When Romney takes that away, he will not go to college. Is that what you WANT? WHY? Now, lets see Romney's take on education: This is a homeless CHILD. One who cannot go to school, who cannot have a better life or much of a future. You want Romney to put MORE children on park benches by cutting off their parents unemployment, taking away welfare and food stamps for their parents, yet this child cannot work because of labor laws. Romney will take away all federal aid for college as well, so even if his parents did manage to pull their lives together, this child could be Einstein but face a future of working at 7-11. Romney would cut education spending as well, someday there may not be room for this boy in school. THIS is what you are VOTING FOR? WHY?
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:38:03 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 15:38:03 GMT -5
And let me add... HOW COULD YOU?
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
Posts: 235
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:44:53 GMT -5
Post by fmelvis on Sept 3, 2012 15:44:53 GMT -5
"In a typical private-equity fragging, Bain put up a mere $18 million to acquire KB Toys and got big banks to finance the remaining $302 million it needed. Less than a year and a half after the purchase, Bain decided to give itself a gift known as a 'dividend recapitalization.' The firm induced KB Toys to redeem $121 million in stock and take out more than $66 million in bank loans – $83 million of which went directly into the pockets of Bain's owners and investors, including Romney. 'The dividend recap is like borrowing someone else's credit card to take out a cash advance, and then leaving them to pay it off,' says Heather Slavkin Corzo, who monitors private equity takeovers as the senior legal policy adviser for the AFL-CIO." "In 2010, a year after the last round of Hertz layoffs, Carlyle teamed up with Bain to take $500 million out of another takeover target: the parent company of Dunkin' Donuts and Baskin-Robbins. Dunkin' had to take out a $1.25 billion loan to pay a dividend to its new private equity owners. So think of this the next time you go to Dunkin' Donuts for a cup of coffee: A small cup of joe costs about $1.69 in most outlets, which means that for years to come, Dunkin' Donuts will have to sell about 2,011,834 small coffees every month – about $3.4 million – just to meet the interest payments on the loan it took out to pay Bain and Carlyle their little one-time dividend. " If this type of stuff about Romney and Bain are accurate, he is a scumbag and obama will destroy him. Read more: www.businessinsider.com/matt-taibbi-mitt-romney-bain-rolling-stone-2012-8#ixzz25RNR6Y8M
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:54:28 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 15:54:28 GMT -5
Elvis, he is a scumbag, but he's got the financial backing of many many other scumbags, some even bigger scumbags. When they have the money to put out propaganda on the scale that you've seen some of the Republicans here citing, it becomes a matter of WHO can be believed. And people have a tendency to be sheep.
It's not their fault, they are either too busy or too uninformed to know how to directly find the information themselves.
However, Romney's money has Obama's beat probably more than 2:1 right now.... odds are very good we are going to get Romney in November, just because people do not think for themselves. And they vote based on what their fellow uninformed are planning to vote.
This IS a fight between the middle class trying to preserve our American way of life vs the multi-national rich with homes in many nations, and so less stake in the USA. And just like real life, they have more money and more power to wage their fight.
But like John Henry vs the machine, we should not HELP them take us down. At the end of the day, self-respect dictates that even when we lose to the machine, we know we went down fighting.
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 15:59:09 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 15:59:09 GMT -5
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 16:01:55 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 16:01:55 GMT -5
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 16:19:23 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 16:19:23 GMT -5
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 16:57:09 GMT -5
Post by texaswoodie on Sept 3, 2012 16:57:09 GMT -5
Wow, what an all out effort! Kudo's Helen! Too bad it ain't gonna work.
If I had the time and inclination, which I have neither, I could sit here and post pictures all day of Obama and all his lies, deceit, and disrespect for the Constitution and religion.
Just the other day he said something to the effect of If Congress won't do it, I'll go around Congress and do it myself. Yep, that's some hero ya got there Helen.
Curt
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 17:03:53 GMT -5
Post by texaswoodie on Sept 3, 2012 17:03:53 GMT -5
lol Helen, I asked you for the link to the ridiculous chart you posted that you said you got straight off the treasury site while saying our information was coming from tabloids. That is where you got your chart, a Lib website, or moveon.org's facebook page. As I pointed out in the Washington Post fact check in which the chart received 4 Four Pinocchios, The person who posted this on Facebook noted: “From the US Treasury Dept — any questions?” But it actually is not a Treasury Department calculation, just manipulated data taken from the Treasury Web site. But this chart, originally created by the office of House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi, is as phony as a three-dollar bill. www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/fact-checker/post/a-bogus-chart-on-obama-and-the-debt-gets-a-new-lease-on-life/2011/09/28/gIQAx40Y6K_blog.htmlUmmm Helen? Is this true? Moveon.org's Facebook page? ROFLMAO Seriously Helen, how do you expect anyone to believe you when you say all these things? Curt
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Obama.
Sept 3, 2012 17:07:19 GMT -5
Post by helens on Sept 3, 2012 17:07:19 GMT -5
Woody, that's nowhere near an 'all out effort' by me for ANYTHING. LOL! But thank you:). How CUTE! Romney's Party Yacht at the RNC Convention is CAYMAN!!! And he parked this at Tampa for his acceptance of the US Presidential Nomination!!! What were you saying about lies, deceit and disrespect for the USA?
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