chassroc
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Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
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Post by chassroc on Dec 14, 2012 15:04:21 GMT -5
This time in Newtown, Connecticut. Sounds like a young man killed his mother and about 17 others including innocent children.
very tragic...cannot be explained in anything resembling human terms
charlie
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Post by Toad on Dec 14, 2012 15:06:54 GMT -5
I just don't understand why people do such things, but like you said, Charlie - maybe it just can't be explained...
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 14, 2012 15:15:24 GMT -5
Sad day,very sad!
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 14, 2012 16:23:27 GMT -5
Man there are so many sick individuals around these days. I suspect most is due to the old "too many rats in the cage" syndrome. More crowded and stressed folks get just like rats crowded into a cage, the more violent and deranged. No more new frontiers for the loaners and the strange to go to to escape the pressures of civilization, a civilization where youth exposure and desensitization to violence saturates society, and a world where parenting is, for many, a lost art. All this pretty much creates a breeding ground for sociopathic killers.
This situation as did the other school shootings, mall shootings etc sure makes the need for armed security much more apparent. Schools especially, being unarmed and with a captive population of helpless sheep, are like shooting galleries for the insane f**ks of the world.
This story has been playing all day on TV and the internet. I wonder how much of this sort of violence is encouraged by the coverage, as one borderline crazy sees all the excitement and notoriety the other killers get and gets his own motor running ....Mel
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Post by helens on Dec 14, 2012 18:31:24 GMT -5
Ugh... I don't get it either.
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Post by mohs on Dec 14, 2012 20:00:29 GMT -5
heartbroken
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Post by krazydiamond on Dec 14, 2012 20:45:05 GMT -5
i agree with Mel, as usual. the more media blitz, the more these sick f**ks get hyped. it is a very sad thing that even though all schools have gone through some very rigorous upgrades in security that this kind of thing can still take place. just goes to show you can't idiot proof society.
KD
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Don
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He wants you too, Malachi.
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Post by Don on Dec 14, 2012 20:54:37 GMT -5
time to allow teachers to ccw. Gun free zones are not protecting our kids.
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 14, 2012 21:25:07 GMT -5
Yup, as my firearms instructor says, Gun free zones are simply buildings full of helpless sitting ducks. One armed security guy or one teacher with a CCW license might have stopped this whole awful event . A the very least it would have given folks a better chance than they had. However, it would also have been nice to see the school have an actual secured area to keep that crazy out in the first place.
Now just wait, the government will ignore the fact this was another freaking crazy and use this awful event as an excuse to attack the 2nd Amendment rights of lawful and responsible gun owners an d try to deny them their lawful right to self defense against criminals or crazies that would do harm to them or theirs.....Mel
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 15, 2012 9:33:47 GMT -5
I can see the gun control people flipping out over this. That will just make things worse.
Another reference to China: The people there do not have guns but they do have these same tragedies. They just do the same thing with a knife. Children are defenseless so the crazies are drawn to them because that is where they can do the most damage.
The government there tries to keep it out of the news because they feel that other crazies will do the copy cat thing and that is one thing where I agree with them.
News media is more guilty than guns or knives in cases like this. The crazies see all the attention the shooters are getting and they want some of that attention. Where better than a school where there are hundreds of targets in a small space.
It is a crappy way to live but heavy doors and wire in the glass of the lower windows will stop this from happening. Instead of being stopped at the office to get into the school there could be someone sitting behind glass checking everybody as a first step in defense. Then checked again by security at the door. All other doors only opened by someone on the inside or the fire alarm.
Since the schools do not have enough money to make this happen it will be cheaper to take away the guns. Then only the crazies and criminals will have guns and this kind of thing will just keep on happening. Jim
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2010
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Post by fmelvis on Dec 16, 2012 9:14:18 GMT -5
I agree with Mel...gun free zones are stupid. You need gun free countries. Caught with a gun? Throw away the key.
Yes, its that simple.
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Dec 16, 2012 9:53:29 GMT -5
That's pretty simple all-right. As in vacuous.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 16, 2012 10:07:59 GMT -5
elvis: *L* I think you are a bit confused about our agreement on this issue or more likely, are being purposely obtuse. Come on. Nothing simple about that at all. BY 2000 there were about 270 million privately held firearms in this country. Since Obama was elected, so many folks are buying guns that the background check hotline is jammed up quite frequently and most every gun store has waiting list for popular models like the so called assault rifles. Manufacturers can't even keep up with demand. *L*
First fact: The US has laws against seizures of property and firearms are valuable property and were legal when purchased. This would take a lengthy court battle which would be lost without constitutional changes.
Second fact. Were folks to turn guns in voluntarily which they would not ( 2nd amendment here and this has already been through the supreme court) criminals would not turn them in leaving folks unable to protect themselves from crime. Old quote here: When asked why he carried a concealed weapon, the reply was " Because I cannot carry around a policemen."
Third fact: If you make guns illegal and folks choose not to turn them in. ie: everyone I know *L*. You've created a whole new criminal class out of law abiding citizens with not enough cops to arrest them and not enough jails to hold them all. *L*. Country is too broke to hire enough cops for the job. You bring in the army or some such and you've got a civil war.
Fourth fact: And this one is grim. What fool is gonna take the job of confiscating a few hundred million guns from folks who won't give them up? Not me, that's for darn sure. That would be a short lived employment opportunity as someone is gonna shoot you sooner more than later. Gun confiscation would create a bloodbath.
Fifth fact: Like it or not, it's guns that keep us free from possible evil from our own rulers, that protect many households, and that make this country an undesirable target for foreign invasion.
A gun free America would never exist except in the realm of fairy tales and pink unicorns and if law abiding folks turned their guns in, we'd have an America that is much less safe than that we have now. It would be ruled by criminals who have not turned their guns in. Most every country that has outlawed or restricted firearms in private hands has seen an upswing in all sorts of crime, including violent crime and a great many of those who have done so have a citizenry that are no longer free......Mel
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Dec 16, 2012 10:15:15 GMT -5
Black Friday alone. Obama has put more guns into the hands of the public than any previous president. Just by being who he is. He has shown himself to be in favor of enacting gun laws, and so has become a prime salesman. The FBI fielded 154,873 calls, a roughly 20 percent increase from last year's previous one-day record of 129,166, according to bureau records. The requests came in such volume throughout the day that FBI call centers experienced two brief outages — one of 18 minutes and one for 14 minutes — during the busy day, bureau spokesman Stephen Fischer said Monday. The FBI does not track actual gun sales. But the number of firearms sold Friday is likely higher because multiple firearms can be included in one transaction by a single buyer. Dealers attributed the continuing gun surge to a variety of factors, including an increase in women buyers and concerns that lawmakers in President Obama's second term could impose stricter gun laws. Among them: a possible attempt to renew a ban on assault weapons. Even so, neither Obama nor Republican presidential nominee Mitt Romney offered such proposals during the just-completed campaign. "With the recent election, some people are making buying decisions just in case something (new law) happens," said Don Gallardo, manager of Shooter's World in Phoenix. Gallardo said his store recorded a 10 percent increase in Black Friday sales. Gallardo said buyers cited similar reasons right after Obama won his first term in 2008. www.businessinsider.com/black-friday-gun-checks-at-a-record-high-2012-11
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grayfingers
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Post by grayfingers on Dec 16, 2012 11:32:24 GMT -5
I understand there are many who have not grown up around guns who find it unfathomable that many Americans refuse to buy into the notion that we would be safer without guns. Speaking for myself and all those I know who are gun owners, we are also saddened, angered and disgusted by this heinous act. And, if I thought for one moment that a ban on 'assault style' weapons would stop this from happening again, I would be all for it. I think the person who could have averted this tragedy was the shooters mother. The weapons were registered to her, and it seems she knowingly had them stored where her mentally ill son could get to them. Part of being a responsible gun owner is to be sure your guns are not accessible to anyone without your knowledge and consent. Sadly, mental illness and pure evil do exist, and terrible things happen. As Mel stated, they would never be able to get all the guns in this country, especially those in the hands of criminals. The following story happened the day before the tragedy in CT. BEIJING — An unemployed man entered a kindergarten in Jiangsu Province in eastern China on Thursday morning and stabbed 28 kindergarten students and three adults, critically wounding at least five children, local authorities and state news agencies reported. It was the second mass stabbing of students in two days, and the third in less than a month. www.nytimes.com/2010/04/30/world/asia/30china.html?_r=0
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fmelvis
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by fmelvis on Dec 16, 2012 16:56:50 GMT -5
Alas, as an anti-gun nut I know my views are not too popular. I will never buy into the notion that the answer for gun violence is everyone should be armed. I believe that these acts of mass killings can be prevented by tougher gun laws and MUCH better back ground checks.
Would you feel safer in a world where every nation on the planet had a nuke, or none did?
I also agree that the second amendment allows you to carry arms, but we all know that 20 round clips and assault rifles were not around then, or your fore fathers may have though it through abit more.
As far as the story that corin posted about the stabbings in china, I may be wrong, but I think everyone lived. Knives are not the weapon of choice in mass violence and guns are more deadly.
My intention was not to spout my political views when such an awful thing has occurred, but when I hear people say over and over again, "how can such a thing happen" and yet never question the gun laws, it just don't compute to me.
Everyone here has said it in one form or another, guns are big sellers and are getting bigger. According to Mel ( whose opinions I do respect) this should make you all feel safer.
And yes Mel, I don't think God himself ( or herself ) would be able to confiscate the guns in America.
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Post by mohs on Dec 16, 2012 16:57:53 GMT -5
I have a crazy idea that will piss off many NRA folks O well… as long as it doesn’t piss off the National Rock Association. :nono:
I can only temper this rant with the conviction that I’m a big supporter of the 2nd Amendment. If you think I’m anti-gun then you don’t know me…mostly
Yet, some events are so soul shattering, and they keep coming with the relentlessness of a machine gun; that its incumbent upon my humanity, to try offer something to abate this mess.
Cheap ammo is the number 1 problem. I’m all for raising the price of ammo, on assault style firearms, to a ridiculous amount. Now, this ammo would be registered on the casing.
This is the beauty of my system. You bring back the spent casing and you get a refund. Back to fair amount of what the market bears for the production price of ammo.
Obviously, my system doesn’t account for the black market. And anyone who wants to do a terrible thing is going to accomplish their stupidity.
But isn’t darn amazing that a lot these recent shootings were done by basically broke kids with access to cheap ammo?
Ed
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 16, 2012 17:43:00 GMT -5
Elvis. *L* I believe you are wrong, except for the nukes. I think it's been statistically proven that folks are safer with more folks owning guns and they are for dang sure more polite. Here in Texas, so many are armed that one learns not to be an ahole and engage in provocative behavior .
Ed, Unfortunately those calibers are also the most popular because for those who shoot a lot and don't reload like cheap ammo for practice. Expensive ammo also denies all but the rich the right to buy ammo for protecting themselves or their family from criminals. I don't think gun owners who abide with the laws should be penalized because of the actions of some crazy mofo. When I lived in California, a crazy drove his car into a celebrating crowd pf college kids up by Santa Barbara. Drunk drivers also kill thousands every year including little kids. It would not be fair to ban cars so crazies or drunks would not kill folks with them. Also consider abortion. Do we make doctors illegal because some kill babies?
The main culprit in this shooting and the one, who had she survived should have been prosecuted, is the mom who failed to secure her firearms and ammo in a safe. Whenever the government bans something it doesn't stop criminals or crazies, it just stops the law abiding folks from having whatever is banned....Mel
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Post by mohs on Dec 16, 2012 17:46:51 GMT -5
well they could give a few special rounds for free defense purposes
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
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Post by Sabre52 on Dec 16, 2012 19:29:12 GMT -5
Ed, Or maybe the government could provide free gun toting bodyguards for all of us like the anti gun bigshots all have for their own families...Mel
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