melmel
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 7
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Post by melmel on Feb 2, 2013 14:37:01 GMT -5
Please help. This is my first time time tumbling rocks. I am on the fourth week and now using the polishing compound. after 6 days I checked the rocks and they were not shiny. it's now the eighth day of the polishing compound and they're still not shiny. I tried to post a photo of my rocks but the thread always kicks me out and deletes my post when I do that. I am so dissapointed. I've been waiting so long for my beach rocks to become shiny. Any advice on what to do? I followed the instructions to the T. Any help is greatly appreciated. Thank you!
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Feb 2, 2013 15:10:11 GMT -5
Without a pic., it's hard to see the problem. Location of origin of the rocks would be helpful too. Many colorful quartz beach rocks from the Oregon coast that are opaque, not translucent, will get smooth, but never shiny, jaspers will get shiny. It has a lot to do with the coarsness of the grain structure of the rock, the finer the structure, and the harder, the better the polish.
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 2, 2013 15:20:19 GMT -5
yes. most beach stones do not polish.
also you got to polish after just a few weeks, so it may have been too soon.
other issues include the sizes of stones, amount of water, and cushioning
get pics and give more info and there is good help here
there are tutorials on posting pics inthe members photo section, including an excellent visual tutorial on using photobucket with RTH
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Post by susand24224 on Feb 2, 2013 15:29:53 GMT -5
I agree with the above, but there are a few things that will help with a "diagnosis" while you conquer the photo issue. Have you looked at all of the rocks? If a few are getting shiny, but most have not, you probably have a mixed hardness issue. It is true that not enough time in the rougher grit stages will prevent overall shine, but usually you get at least a little shine on a few areas if that is the problem. You may not have washed carefully enough, that would interfere with a "glass-like" shine but they still should be shining a bit. If your rocks appear smooth (if you have a magnifying glass or jeweler's loupe look through that) try this: find an old piece of leather, dampen the rough part a bit and sprinkle your polish on it. Rub the rock vigorously over the leather, and in thirty seconds or so you will see a bit of polish, if your rocks are capable of polishing with the polish you have. Try it with a couple of different types. All polish is not created equal. What are you using? Where did you get it? For any more detail, we really need photos.
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melmel
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 7
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Post by melmel on Feb 2, 2013 15:33:15 GMT -5
Thanks! My rocks are from the Puget sound. I have 3 agates in there that are getting slightly polished. Looking at my rock ID chart I think I also have some pink granite, chert, flower stone, quartz, breccia and others I'm not sure of. The instructions that came with my tumble bee said use each grit for a week which I did so now I'm on the final 4th week of polishing. They are definitely smooth, just not shiny. I read some other posts about the same issue and people said use soap, borax etc. I know my 2 lb barrel is about 1/2 full. My rocks seem to be shrinking so I'd hate to start over. I think some might dissapear....... Thanks for the info. I will see about posting a pic.
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melmel
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 7
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Post by melmel on Feb 2, 2013 15:51:04 GMT -5
This is how they look now. The polish and grit I have is from Covington engineering in CA. I used 60/90 the first week. 120/220 second week and f-400 the 3rd week. I'm on day 8 of polish. Though my barrel is only about 1/2 full I still used the correct amt. Of water to barely cover the tops of the rocks. I did forget to use the old miser in the first 2 steps although some forums I've read say it is not neccesary. Attachments:
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melmel
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 7
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Post by melmel on Feb 2, 2013 15:56:03 GMT -5
I rinsed the barrels out as best as I could between each stage of the grits. However there was a very thin film that I couldn't rinse out. I didn't scrub the barrels clean. Should I have done that?
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custommike
starting to shine!
Member since November 2012
Posts: 42
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Post by custommike on Feb 2, 2013 17:09:20 GMT -5
My tips, I am new though so take it with a grain of *sand* ;D
I would guess that you moved through the stages too quickly. Softer stone a week on each may be good but harder stone... I have some carnelian that has been going on coarse (16 grit) for close to three weeks... The way I see it 1st stage - Overall shape and removing blemishes (could be several weeks) generally 60/90 or lower 2nd stage - Surface smoothing. Major pits/blemishes should already be gone. This stage will do more rounding generally with 120 or 180 3rd stage - Sometimes "pre polish" this stage takes away any cuts left by previous stages. Very little to no rounding will happen, Generally 320 or 480 4th (optional) 1500 - I think this makes a difference no matter the stone but is not included in any kits you will have to go looking for this. 5th - Polish Use a quality product for better results. This stage may take as long as 2 weeks. In mixed batches some plastic pellets are advisable for the last two stages, and in most batches pellets are a good idea on polish.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Feb 2, 2013 17:11:10 GMT -5
Some beach stones will get shiny. I've done lots of rocks from Lake Superior that get very shiny. The nice thing about beach rocks is that they are already pretty round so they don't take as much time in the first stage. However, I don't think I've ever had rocks in the first stage for only a week. Beach rocks might be done with the first stage in a couple weeks, but I just did my weekly clean out on a tumbler with beach rocks and some weren't done after about three weeks. That rock in the upper right corner is not ready to leave stage one. See that big crack? It can hold grit that comes out in a later step and ruins the whole batch. When I run the rough stage, I check my rocks once a week and take out any that look perfect. Perfect means they have not pits or cracks. Whatever I take out gets replaced by more rough rocks. I only move to the next stage when I have enough perfect rocks to fill a barrel.
The first stage can take months. Don't rush it. I know that's not what the tumbler manufacturers advertise, but the first stage takes a really long time. I just bought 50 lbs. of 60/90 grit because the first stage takes so darn long.
Rob
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custommike
starting to shine!
Member since November 2012
Posts: 42
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Post by custommike on Feb 2, 2013 17:19:53 GMT -5
Some other possibilities that I ran into on my first couple batches: Too much water. I put waaaaaay too much water in my first couple tumbles. You want it to actually be pretty low. The top layer of stones should be out of the water and second layer should just be getting their feet wet. Too much water makes the media slush around instead of sticking to the rocks and making a slurry that will really do the grinding you want. Too few stones: You want the stones to tumble. Rolling it on the ground you should hear the stones cascade (thunk thunk thunk) not slide or slosh (sounds more like sand paper on wood). At half full there may not be enough stones for that to be happening. I would really wash and scrub before starting polish. If you used plastic pellets on a grind stage don't use them in polish. I take each rock and hit it will a fingernail brush before it goes into polish and my barrel gets similar treatment. I also load it with soap and water and roll it by hand for 10-15 minutes. Any grit transferring to polish will ruin what you have, although I don't think that is the problem you have. Don't get discouraged! Looks at the pictures I posted a couple weeks ago of some amethyst and carnelian... only my third batch of stones! That being said some of the stones may just not polish or may not polish well.
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Post by susand24224 on Feb 2, 2013 17:34:31 GMT -5
Your rocks look smoothed out, but for future reference ignore the "one week" instructions. The manufacturer can't see your rocks--so the instructions just give a rough idea. As others have said, one week is rarely enough time for anything other than smoothed out rocks (like yours) and soft rocks. Not all rocks are done at the same time, so most of us keep a handful of rough on hand, take out the 25% or so that are ready to move to the next grit, and fill up the original barrel with the ones not ready and some new ones. I've got an 18 lb barrell running all the time with Mohs 7 rocks--and carnelians that have been in there several months in 60/90.
I am seeing mostly quartz. The reddish brown one sort of center may never polish, based on personal experience with rocks that look like it.
I'm seeing mostly quartz in your batch--they should polish well. There is one with a fairly large crack--if you wish to leave this in, be extra sure to clean out the crack well, because grit can get stuck in there and later escape to ruin polish. A tough toothbrush may work, or a sonic jewelry cleaner.
One final--I've not used your type of tumbler, but I've used several different kinds and sizes, and I've never put in water to cover the rocks. The usual standard is water up to the bottom of the top layer of rocks--and I use less. Not a lot less, but maybe in a small tumbler 1/2" or so less. The reason I use less is that as the rocks tumble they seem to settle, so if I open the barrel after an hour or so, the water level always seems to be higher than it should be, so I compensate in advance. Too much water can definitely slow your polishing down. Since your polishing is finally beginning, I suspect that may be your main problem.
I tumbled for years without a separate barrel for polishing, and rarely had a problem. For me, cleanliness has rarely been an issue, but others have had a different experience, I think.
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melmel
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 7
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Post by melmel on Feb 2, 2013 19:33:11 GMT -5
Oh my goodness. There is a lot to consider here. Thank you for all the tips! I honesty didn't do the hardness test because the instructions said to use a penny and when I did it just left copper colored marks on everything. So I think I will reevaluate and start over beginning with the hardness test. I also obviously need to be more thorough. I figured a crack was not a big deal since it didn't seem to fragile. There is a lot the instructions don't tell you so thanks again for all the advice!
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Post by deb193redux on Feb 2, 2013 22:15:56 GMT -5
I think a little more than half full, and water only to the bottom of top layer, and only then if there are many small rocks. (large rocks leave large voids that hold a lot of water.)
I think you also need more smaller rock to help do the work.
a few of the dark red and black will not polish.
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Post by johnjsgems on Feb 2, 2013 23:17:04 GMT -5
If you really pick good beach rocks (no major fractures/pits, etc.) and keep barrel 2/3- 3/4 full I think you would have success. Keep adding 1st step rocks until you have a full load for step two. Or uise a filler media like ceramics.
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melmel
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2013
Posts: 7
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Post by melmel on Feb 3, 2013 1:15:32 GMT -5
I do have a lot of small rocks that I could use for filler. This forum is the first I've heard about using something to replace the lost volume.
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custommike
starting to shine!
Member since November 2012
Posts: 42
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Post by custommike on Feb 3, 2013 3:44:58 GMT -5
Replacing lost volume is really something you need to do without it the action of the tumble will be less and less. I keep the first stage going until I have enough rock to get it all the way through.
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timloco
has rocks in the head
Member since April 2012
Posts: 545
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Post by timloco on Feb 3, 2013 11:06:56 GMT -5
It looks like a couple of those rocks have some good cracks in them, this is where grit can hide and contaminate later stages. Don't take rocks with large cracks to the next stages, keep grinding away at stage 1 till they are gone if you can. some rocks just aren't good for tumbling.
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Henry
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2013
Posts: 452
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Post by Henry on Feb 3, 2013 15:24:49 GMT -5
I feel your pain. South from you, the Central Coast California has some really nice looking stones. But, the pits and cracks are somewhat challenging. After every step I use really hot water and a few tablespoons full of Borax...and wash/decontaminate the stones for 24 hours. Sometimes i'll perform several fresh cycles with the pitted and cracked pieces. Then the last step (strictly subjective), I use marbles as fillers mixed with plastic pellets. Also, I use tin oxide as a polish. You have to be really OCD to make sure you have the correct amount of rocks, balanced with marbles and pellets. And as mentioned previously in the other replies, the water should only "get the feet wet" of the top later of stones. It's hard to tell from the picture, but these stones are almost near a mirror shine. In of them the inclusions leave only average results. (like the "fruitcake" piece in the middle) Attachments:
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,168
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Post by jamesp on Feb 4, 2013 8:01:55 GMT -5
The rocks that i see in the abalone shell should finish with a good polish.They do not need any more 60/90.That is for sure.220,400 then polish is sure to give you a polish if you fill tumbler with variety of size to 3/4 full,water to rocks and keep all clean.I get grit wedged in many rocks because of the voids and still mirror polish.Coarse grit still stuck in the voids after polish cycle.Those look like jaspers and agates-should shine up fine.They are on the large side so please add some smaller pebbles of agates/jaspers.And 3/4 full is real important if you have any rocks on the large side like those.You gotta play by the rules-3/4 full and a nice mix of size.Then you can eliminate those 2 issues.Everyone of the tumbler folks have gotten to the end of the long process and failed.it is frustrating to mait that long and fail. Judging from that photo,400 for 5 days and polish for 4 days should get er done,just add some smaller pebbles to 3/4 full.
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The Dad_Ohs
fully equipped rock polisher
Take me to your Labradorite!!
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,860
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Post by The Dad_Ohs on Feb 4, 2013 9:11:22 GMT -5
I have 2 barrels going on my 12 pound tumbler, 1 is rough only, the other moves thru the rest of the grits. I keep both barrels filled to 75% capacity, add water until it just shows through the top layer of rocks. My grits cycles vary, rough, from 2 to 6 weeks depending on the rock (right now I am doing Laker Superior Agates.), and the other barrel goes anywhere from a week to a month also. Both Barrels get checked every week to see how they are doing, and the better rocks get pulled out, add a little more grit, usually no more than 1/3 of what was put in to start. I also add ceramic media or glass marbles to the tumbler to help move the grit around and when I don't add more rocks, I clean both barrels once every 2 months, roughly, so the marbles take the place of the rock lost during tumbling.
When I clean out my barrels I put the residue in a plastic container and leave it to evaporate outside until there is no water left. The remainder is crumbled and put in a container to use with my rough grit tumbles as it works great at creating a nice slurry to carry the grit to the rocks being tumbled. (I add 1 large teaspoon per barrel on my 3 pound tumbler rough barrel and 2-3 teaspoons on my 12 pound rough barrel.
I do 4 cycles: 60/90, 120/220, 1000 AO Pre Polish, and AO polish. and I've not had a single problem with my tumbles, although it did take some time to get it right, luckily the people here are the best and more than happy to share what they know, which is why I have such luck with my tumbles!!
I only use borax when I get to the pre polish & polish phases.
Hope this helps!! Good Luck !!
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