blackout5783
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 248
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Post by blackout5783 on Jul 7, 2013 12:25:50 GMT -5
This saw is shaping up to be a bit of a job. I mean that in the same way that WWII was a disagreement. The old rock snot and "oil" is a &*$%%***# to remove. I used quotes around the word oil because the way this stuff is petrified in there, it feels like the previous owners were using 5 minute epoxy as a cutting fluid. I bent a paint scraper trying to get it out, and I think it was laughing at the wire wheel on the drill I had going. I've had to resort to a wood chisel and mallet to remove it.
Anyway, I'm in the process of disassembling the guts of the saw to be able to clean and repaint the interior and there are two (and a half) questions that I ran across so far.
First, does anyone know how to remove the drive gear from the screw feed on a 24" Frantom? I'm attempting to remove the vise and carriage assembly as one piece to avoid a headache later. I took off the gearbox and I can't figure out how the gear is attached to the screw feed through the body of the saw. Or do I just loosen the set screws on the screw feed bushings and pull the whole shebang out with the gear attached to the feed? It looks like I can't remove the carriage rails without the screw feed out first.
Second question (and a half) is about grease. The gearbox was packed (full) with old, chunky brown grease that I'm going to replace since I have the whole damn thing in pieces already. Is standard multipurpose grease OK or should it be a heavy-duty moly type thing? The half question is the same thing about the bearings and arbor unit. Standard or industrial strength?
Thanks everyone!
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Post by Peruano on Jul 7, 2013 12:41:30 GMT -5
I can't help on the drive gear removal. When I needed to get to the guts of my homemade saw, I removed the vice piece by piece and was glad I did in being able to remove rust from the components easier. As to grease, I know no rule, but I'd suspect if its a one time and forget it attitude, you should go with heavy duty, but lets face it any grease is better than old grease and if you can grease bearings frequently fresh grease of the normal variety will be fine. Even in a 90 degree worm drive situation, the normal grease should be great for a year or two (low speeds). Do what you can, don't ignore any demons, and consider the rest optional so that you can get back to cutting. Did I say, I'm an 80% guy. The other 20% may not be necessary. Tom
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 7, 2013 12:59:58 GMT -5
Never owned a Frantom saw, so can't answer any tech questions. But for removing the petrified oil, have you tried that road tar and bug removal spray from an auto parts store ? I recently bought a 6" trim saw with the same problem. The spray did what gasoline wouldn't do, and didn't harm the original paint.
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keystonecops
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2010
Posts: 957
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Post by keystonecops on Jul 7, 2013 17:38:02 GMT -5
email Tim at cigarboxrocks in Bend Or. He restores old HP and Frantom saws, and will answer questions. Later Clyde
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 7, 2013 20:24:34 GMT -5
Based on what I saw when I popped the lid off of the grease box on the back of the FranTom 18 I'm rebuilding, if you take the lid off then remove the 4 nuts on the inside to release the grease box that will guve you access to the drive gear. You should be able to loosen the collar at the back of the screw, slide it forward, and pull the feed screw out the back unless there's some kind of retaining plate/thrust washer behind the gear. When returning the drive screw, if you can cut a gasket and silicone gasket goop the grease box on so it's sealed I suggest you switch to 90/120 wt gear lube for longer gear life.
For petrified snot I use the cheapest penetrating oil, WD40 type stuff I can find. If it's real thick though a wood chisel or better brass may be in order.
Lee
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quartz
Cave Dweller
breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,342
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Post by quartz on Jul 8, 2013 0:07:01 GMT -5
We bought a saw that had sat for about 30 yrs. with oil in it, I know what you say about "petrified". I used straight Simple Green, kept everything wet, and it eventually came loose. Took about 6 weeks to clean it up. I agree with rockoonz about using oil instead of grease in the gear case, much better lubrication. Run with the gear case about 1/3 full, that way the gears are always running in and picking up oil, but the level is below the shaft, lessening the chance for leaks.
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rochaura
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 14
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Post by rochaura on Jul 17, 2013 20:07:55 GMT -5
I once bought a saw that had been run with peanut oil and then left to polimerize It turned to rock. I tried lacquor thinner with no luck so I went to acetone. It worked, but it took three gallons to clean a 24 inch saw. As for the drive gear, back off the set screw or set screws and pry it off. If the gear box will hold oil without leaking then 90 weight gear oil would be perfect. If not then use the best gear grease you can find and add moly powder. Check it after one year. If it had turned to solid, try another brand.
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rochaura
off to a rocking start
Member since July 2013
Posts: 14
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Post by rochaura on Jul 17, 2013 20:15:23 GMT -5
I once bought a saw that had been run with peanut oil and then left to polimerize It turned to rock. I tried lacquor thinner with no luck so I went to acetone. It worked, but it took three gallons to clean a 24 inch saw. As for the drive gear, back off the set screw or set screws and pry it off. If the gear box will hold oil without leaking then 90 weight gear oil would be perfect. If not then use the best gear grease you can find and add moly powder. Check it after one year. If it had turned to solid, try another brand.
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barclay
has rocks in the head
Lowly Padawan of rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 510
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Post by barclay on Jul 19, 2013 19:18:29 GMT -5
I would caution against using automotive road tar/bug remover. The active ingredient is methylene chloride which is very toxic, very flammable, burns your skin and eyes as well as eats through most thin rubber gloves in a heartbeat. If you want to use it I would definitely recommend doing it outside. Acetone has a very high vapor pressure (it likes to go from liquid to gas quickly) so the pilot light in your hot water heater in the garage may be a problem if you do it there (yes my day job is safety). I think the WD-40/Liquid Wrench is a much better way to go. Methylene chloride and acetone will not do anything to the rust that is probably lurking under the caked on grease, but WD-40 and similar products will help break that up.
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Post by jakesrocks on Jul 19, 2013 19:30:00 GMT -5
Barclay is going to have nightmares about this, but in a pinch good old fashioned Easy Off oven cleaner works too. But it will remove paint along with the grease. And if you can find it, old fashioned lye soap will too.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 15:39:23 GMT -5
I would caution against using automotive road tar/bug remover. The active ingredient is methylene chloride which is very toxic, very flammable, burns your skin and eyes as well as eats through most thin rubber gloves in a heartbeat. If you want to use it I would definitely recommend doing it outside. Not flammable. Here is an MSDS that shows it would ignite until well over 1000 degrees www.phy.duke.edu/research/photon/qelectron/dichloromethane_msds.pdfI worked with Methylene Chloride, it is nasty stuff for sure. It de-fats your skin and that feels like a burn later. Special polypropylene gloves are required. Do not drink it and dont get it in your eyes, use it with care and you will be fine. Hilarious story; I once fell into an open topped tank that was four feet deep in Methylene Chloride. I knew what was happening, I hit bottom and immediately leapt back out of the tank, jumped to the ground and stripped naked all in about a New York nano-second. My partner (we worked open topped tanks in pairs) jumped off the platform, turned on a water hose handed it to me and disappeared. Here I am naked taking a hose bath in the chemical plant yard and the bosses wife walks by and matter of factly says "are you OK?" I say "yes, fine, thank you can you have someone get me a jumpsuit. please?" Just then, here comes fearless partner with a jumpsuit and a towel, I dry off put on the jumpsuit, empty the pockets of my cloths and hang them out to dry. My wallet and all inside was ruined. Except for the US money; credit cards and drivers license melted. When I came inside the bosses wife offers me her new bottle of expensive ladies lotion and I lathered myself up in the stuff. I smelled real good! lol Still a few hours later I was itchy all over. That was 30 years ago. Seems like I am OK now.
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panamark
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2012
Posts: 1,343
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Post by panamark on Jul 20, 2013 16:14:13 GMT -5
Scott, can we take a vote on that? LOL
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 20, 2013 16:16:35 GMT -5
Yes. That is acceptable!
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blackout5783
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 248
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Post by blackout5783 on Jul 22, 2013 7:45:55 GMT -5
Not flammable. Here is an MSDS that shows it would ignite until well over 1000 degrees www.phy.duke.edu/research/photon/qelectron/dichloromethane_msds.pdfI worked with Methylene Chloride, it is nasty stuff for sure. It de-fats your skin and that feels like a burn later. Special polypropylene gloves are required. Do not drink it and dont get it in your eyes, use it with care and you will be fine. Hilarious story; I once fell into an open topped tank that was four feet deep in Methylene Chloride. I knew what was happening, I hit bottom and immediately leapt back out of the tank, jumped to the ground and stripped naked all in about a New York nano-second. My partner (we worked open topped tanks in pairs) jumped off the platform, turned on a water hose handed it to me and disappeared. Here I am naked taking a hose bath in the chemical plant yard and the bosses wife walks by and matter of factly says "are you OK?" I say "yes, fine, thank you can you have someone get me a jumpsuit. please?" Just then, here comes fearless partner with a jumpsuit and a towel, I dry off put on the jumpsuit, empty the pockets of my cloths and hang them out to dry. My wallet and all inside was ruined. Except for the US money; credit cards and drivers license melted. When I came inside the bosses wife offers me her new bottle of expensive ladies lotion and I lathered myself up in the stuff. I smelled real good! lol Still a few hours later I was itchy all over. That was 30 years ago. Seems like I am OK now. You beat me to it. DCM isn't flammable, but ugly stuff all the same. I'm a chemist in my day job, so I'm familiar with many solvents. I try to avoid the chlorinated stuff as much as possible. Can't believe you fell into a vat of the stuff! Here's an interesting fact. Beyond the de-fatting issue with DCM, it absorbs through the skin. You body then proceeds to metabolize it into carbon monoxide, so theoretically if you spill enough on yourself you can suffocate as the CO builds up in your bloodstream. I've actually been using Fast 505 from home depot as a degreaser and its doing a pretty damn good job. You can see it sucking the oil right out of the petrified rock goop. My main issue now (once I finish cleaning) is rust. I can handle the surface stuff, but there are two small holes (less than 1/4 inch) in the tank right below where the blade sits. Is there a good way to plug those without welding? I'm not equipped for that!
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Jul 22, 2013 10:12:50 GMT -5
My main issue now (once I finish cleaning) is rust. I can handle the surface stuff, but there are two small holes (less than 1/4 inch) in the tank right below where the blade sits. Is there a good way to plug those without welding? I'm not equipped for that! How is this? Make a patch of steel (or other oil safe material) large enough to cover the holes. Clean the rust/grease/oil/schmutz from enough metal surrounding the holes to "match the patch". Mix up some epoxy, apply liberally to the metal patch, put patch in place. When the epoxy is set, you are too. Just have to be sure the epoxy is applied evenly enough that no secret path exists for the oil to escape later. A second patch applied the same way at the same time outside the saw for a doubly safe fix. I was a chemlab tech when I fell in the vat. Hello to the chemist!
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Post by Rockoonz on Jul 26, 2013 18:22:01 GMT -5
I used a sheet of steel and a 2 part toughened epoxy that was a budget alternative to JB weld to redo the entire bottom of an old arbor unit that was full of pinholes. Gooped that stuff in thick, laid in the sheet metal and put chunks of steel and rocks in to hold it down. The unit was on my flat welding table on a couple sheets of waxed paper and the stuff made it through the holes well enough to fill all the holes. Coated it with cheap spray paint and it worked great for all the time I used it.
Lee
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