sheltie
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2012
Posts: 982
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Post by sheltie on Jul 16, 2013 9:12:55 GMT -5
I do all the slabbing and the polishing of the slabs in the family while my wife likes to create cabs to make jewelry for friends and family. She has never charged for this but now has a customer who wants her to create finished cabs so that the customer can wire wrap them. Neither of us have a clue how much to charge but I've seen some cabs on ebay and etsy and though how inexpensive they were. Considering how much time one spends from beginning to end on creating a final cab, I thought they were underpriced, but what do I know.
Is there a rule of thumb regarding what to charge a customer?
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jul 16, 2013 9:22:13 GMT -5
Denny, I've sold a few finished cabs, and agree that there is much more work that goes into them than you'll get back out of them. That's why this is a hobby, LOL! I know some people can make a living from it, but more people I think do it for the love of it. For all intents and purposes, consider yourself lucky if you get some money back to apply towards your machinery upkeep.
Don't undersell yourself. If you start the price at something you think is reasonable, if no one bites, you can always come down. At my club's last tailgate show I sold a few cabs,ranging from $7 to $12. I maybe could have gotten a little bit more, or I may not have sold any at all - kind of a balancing act. For really nice or rare material, or large cabs, charge a bit more. It will also depend on how you are selling them, what your costs are for that. Wish you luck! Jean
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 16, 2013 9:30:17 GMT -5
This is a great question and its one I still have a hard time with. As a hobbyist I make cabs because I like doing it so I have cabs piling up in cases (I think over 200 right now). So for me if I can get $10-$15 for cabs that are from fairly common materials that's enough to keep up with some of the expenses and it leaves enough meat on the bone for the person wire wrapping to still make some money. I realize that to actually make money and be profitable the prices would need to be a bit higher and I do try to price according to cab difficulty and stone cost too.
I honestly think it takes me longer to photograph and make a good listing for a cab then it actually takes for me to make the cab so its hard to re-coupe all the time and effort involved in making the sale. Chuck
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 16, 2013 9:49:45 GMT -5
I cut a lot of cabs and have sold a few. I'll be honest. I don't think I've ever gotten out of one what I have into it it terms of time and materials. I mostly just give my cabs away. I don't think I could make a profit unless I got at least $15-20 minimum and much more if the material was uncommon, purchased as a slab etc. I'll sometimes pay $15 or more just for a slab, and the cab I cut is a single one from the best part of the slab in that instance, the selling price would have to be about $30 or more because I'd have the time into it too and even at minimum wage that ain't enough profit to bother with unless it's a just for fun project. I think the most profit comes from the rough to slabs step. If you get a good piece of rough and you don't wreck a blade or something, sometimes a single good slab will pay for the whole piece of rough and the next your saw blade time, with the rest being profit.
Like jean says, " That's why it's a hobby" *L*....Mel
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2013 9:52:43 GMT -5
Really tough question. You have to factor into the price so many things, including wear and tear on your equipment and time to source materials. It's a wonder anyone makes any money selling cabs! I guess, the place to start is to weight the slab, get a gram price, weight the cab for gram price, multiply that by some number, say 3 for mark up, add 10% for waste. Then, add in your time. Pick an hourly wage you are willing to work for and use that. Then add some amount for misc things including wear on the machines. If selling online, add in the cost and time of that. I think you can also add an amount for eye appeal- or detract for ho hum. This is off the top of my head. I'm not disciplined enough to do this myself. I just fly by the seat of my pants.
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sheltie
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2012
Posts: 982
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Post by sheltie on Jul 16, 2013 10:04:02 GMT -5
I think the most profit comes from the rough to slabs step. If you get a good piece of rough and you don't wreck a blade or something, sometimes a single good slab will pay for the whole piece of rough and the next your saw blade time, with the rest being profit. I had to (bitterly) chuckle at that sentence because I'm on my third 16" blade in eight months! Probably 99% of what I cut is for my own benefit so I really haven't worried too much about the quality of the rough, although a fair amount of my rough is pretty decent. I guess that if I ever want to sell very much I probably need to buy better quality rough. And therein lies another problem. Sometimes, the higher price of a piece of rough doesn't guarantee its' real value. I began this (hounding and lapidary) as a hobby about 1 1/2 years ago to replace my past hobby of 64 years - golf. Health forced me to quit playing even though at then 69 I was still a 3 handicap. In that hobby, I made a lot of money. That won't be the case in this hobby!
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sheltie
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2012
Posts: 982
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Post by sheltie on Jul 16, 2013 10:06:25 GMT -5
Really tough question. You have to factor into the price so many things, including wear and tear on your equipment and time to source materials. It's a wonder anyone makes any money selling cabs! I guess, the place to start is to weight the slab, get a gram price, weight the cab for gram price, multiply that by some number, say 3 for mark up, add 10% for waste. Then, add in your time. Pick an hourly wage you are willing to work for and use that. Then add some amount for misc things including wear on the machines. If selling online, add in the cost and time of that. I think you can also add an amount for eye appeal- or detract for ho hum. This is off the top of my head. I'm not disciplined enough to do this myself. I just fly by the seat of my pants. Whew! Great explanation and I can see why you use the seat of the pants method. However, I suffer from "old man's disease" (no butt!) so this may not apply to me.
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Jul 16, 2013 10:55:53 GMT -5
Make it worth your time or don't do it at all. $30-40 for an artisan cabochon is not unreasonable at all. If someone wants cheap, there is plenty of that to go around. if someone wants quality, they'll pay more for it. If all of the "hobbyists" selling on etsy would pay themselves for their time and overhead as well as material, we wouldn't be having this problem.
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Post by tntmom on Jul 16, 2013 11:30:51 GMT -5
Make it worth your time or don't do it at all. $30-40 for an artisan cabochon is not unreasonable at all. If someone wants cheap, there is plenty of that to go around. if someone wants quality, they'll pay more for it. If all of the "hobbyists" selling on etsy would pay themselves for their time and overhead as well as material, we wouldn't be having this problem. I agree with Don "IF" you are wanting to do this as a business. I never set out to have a business selling cabs but over time they began to sell as fast as I was making them. I tend to charge up to $60 for some cabs but I try to never go under $25.00 unless I'm doing trades. The lowest price I have asked for my work was $20 each and that was only because my customer couldn't choose between the 10 I had made and she ended up buying ALL of them, LOL! I think if you are proud of your work and willing to put your name on it, don't sell yourself short. Cheap cabs mass produced in factories are a dime a dozen whereas true craftsmanship in creating a one of a kind cabochon is an art piece. (Just my 2 cents )
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Post by rockjunquie on Jul 16, 2013 11:53:47 GMT -5
I agree with Don and Krystee. What I did was to start in a med-low range to build up interest and get established and then slowly raised my prices. I do a lot of my pricing based on material and eye appeal. I have sold quite a few high end cabs for a good penny. I like to offer some in a lower price range, too, though-- lower quality/less cost, simple cabs good for a wrapper starting out. They get a good quality, handmade cab at a good price and I still make a profit. The problem is with trying to use a formula. Pricing just on eye appeal doesn't work, either. Ones man's trash, is another man's treasure. Example- I was on etsy looking at cabs from a big seller of hi quality stuff. The one I liked was cheaper but bigger than another smaller, yet higher priced one. I asked the seller what the difference was. Maybe there was a crack I didn't see. He said that his wife thought the other was prettier.
I think the problem with pricing is coming up with a formula that works.
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Post by deb193redux on Jul 16, 2013 11:56:02 GMT -5
The profit margin is very low from what I see. Like most said, you seldom get your time back out.
The lesson is to make artisan cabs. This does not only mean excellent technical polish, but also shapes not available on the mass market, and materials not seen as often on the market. IF you do this I think you can get a premium price. Otherwise you will sell a few, ad than end up discounting the rest 50% or 75% to get rid of them. Do not compete with imports. Go for the artisan niche.
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Post by krazydiamond on Jul 16, 2013 11:59:23 GMT -5
just a note on "cheap cabs mass produced in factories". i was getting frustrated with the overall shape and domes of some of my smaller cabs (14mm x 10mm) and decided to order some "perfectly machined" cabs from Fire Mountain Gems, just to compare my stuff to theirs to see what i was doing wrong...HA! a pair of grade B turquoise cabochons cost over $17.00 (not counting shipping. this pair was really a poor quality match, has rough edges and the backs weren't even polished. BUT, they did fit perfectly into the prefab cab mounts. but i would be ashamed to mount them and even GIVE them away.
so, i got some reference points from a functional point of view, but overall, these cabs were crap. i normally get $40.00 for a pair of matched 14mm x 10mm stones for earrings. which probably doesn't come close to the actual cost for my time and material, but there IS a fun factor there for me.
KD
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SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
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Post by SirRoxalot on Jul 16, 2013 12:17:58 GMT -5
It's reeeeally hard. I cab for giggles, but with a hope of sales, so avoid anything common and seldom do anything calibrated or standard shapes. Mostly high end rough done freeform.
Filled up a bunch of Riker mounts, everything priced individually at prices that seemed to make it worth my time, $30-$75.
Brought them to a show.
Sold one.
As far as I can see the 9 year old East Indians and the big corporations have killed it... they do mass quantities and now the customer thinks cabochons are low-value and not worth more than five bucks.
Which is highly amusing when one is paying fifty bucks a pound for the rough.
I have hopes of someday hooking up with a gold wire artist who wants the good stuff, or wrapping them myself, but sales or no sales I keep grinding.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 16, 2013 12:49:13 GMT -5
I think there is definitely more than one market for cabochons. I certainly know from my participation here that my cabbing skills and my selection of materials are not on par with the true "artesians". I have seen many cabs posted here that are worth every bit of the $30-$50 mentioned above but that does not mean that a lesser quality cab from a more common material is worthless either. I sell cabs that I feel are worth $15 to me for right around $15. In my case selling a few cabs at $15 each month VS charging $30 and risking not selling any might mean turning my tumblers off for a month due to no grit money etc ...
Chuck
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sheltie
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since January 2012
Posts: 982
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Post by sheltie on Jul 16, 2013 13:02:40 GMT -5
Wow, talk about a great education! I thank all of you for these - and any subsequent - posts. I really had no idea about any of this as we have never tried to sell any cabs prior to now. I suspect this will be a one time deal but the lady is looking for a source to cab for her wrappings so maybe we could be the source. She bought a few slabs from me at our local club meeting and liked them so maybe... Still, this is not a high priority for us, enjoying what we do is. So we'll see.
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Post by Pat on Jul 16, 2013 13:18:44 GMT -5
Yes, do not short sell yourself. There is such a thing as perceived value. If the price is too low, customers will think there is something wrong with it. A higher price indicates it is worth something, so they bought something good. Makes them feel good.
One more thing: your cabs are domed. This is a plus. Tumbled cabs are not domed.
Good luck!
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barclay
has rocks in the head
Lowly Padawan of rocks
Member since November 2011
Posts: 510
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Post by barclay on Jul 16, 2013 14:00:24 GMT -5
One thing I would add to the wonderful advise Tela and everyone else gave on this thread is to think about your audience and their wants. Wire wrappers are looking to turn a profit of their own using your cabs. They are looking lower cost stones, but they are also looking for a longer term relationship that will give them good material at a reasonable price. If you keep them coming back you get more consistent sales and profits. If you set the cab then you are going for the customer who wants to wear the piece and you will have a harder time establishing a long term relationship with them. These folks will always want the product cheaper, but the price you charge should reflect the worth of the stone, the time you spent shaping and setting it as well as what the market will bear. You will have a hard time selling $100 cabs at a farmer's market (unless you are in Beverly Hills) no matter how rare the stone is. Tela's method was the most in depth answer I saw in calculating cost. I go with three times the cost of materials and round to the next $5 amount. People like round numbers. If you give a percentage off a round number people like that also. Temper my advise as being from someone who is a long time hobbyist who is starting to sell more stuff. I will not be quitting my day job any time soon I would starve trying to live off the jewelry I am selling at the moment:) Maybe some day.
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Jul 16, 2013 15:37:59 GMT -5
This is a great thread. Thanks to sheltie for starting it! All points are good. The one thing I did not see anyone mention is waste. If someone did mention this, then I hope that party will forgive me. Let's say you have a rock that weighs five pounds. You cut it into slabs it weighs less. You have lost the heels from and back plus the blades kerf on every cut. For discussion sake you have cut the five pound stone into 20 slabs. Here is where it gets ugly. A high end cab professional like rockjunquie may only get one or two cabs per slab. Some of your slabs are small and only have one cab in there. Some are larger and you get four. Let's say you get an amazing 50 cabs from the source five pound stone. What does a cab weigh? If they weigh 5 grams you have a half pound of cabs from your five pound stone. Or, to put it another way, you lost 90% of the original stone. All that said, even at $30 a pound your stone cost for these theoretical cabs is $3ea. Not bad if you can get $35-$60ea. I think I can add more by asking a question. Tela, Krystee and the rest.... how much time is involved in making a cab? From slabbing to cab'ing to final product is there an hour in it? Is a cab an hour for a well outfitted & skilled pro reasonable?
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Jul 16, 2013 16:06:54 GMT -5
Depends on the size, shape, material, flaws, etc of the stone being cabbed. If everything is optimal, I need about 45min - 1hr to finish a cab from slab. If I've got to slab the rock first, add another 15-45min depending on the size of the rock being cut and the cutting speed of the saw. Waste and SG&A gets accounted for in the 2x or 3x material cost factor that goes into determining the base price of the finished product.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jul 16, 2013 16:29:27 GMT -5
Go to Sam Silverhawk's site and check out his cabs and prices. He only messes with great material, cuts mostly all designer cabs, and does great work. if you can compete with him designwise, qualitywise and pricewise, you should do well.....Mel
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