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Post by 1dave on Jan 11, 2014 21:45:18 GMT -5
I just stumbled into this. The best price appears to be E-BayHas anyone used it? Apparently you just screw on your empty cylinder and open your big tank valve. When the "whoosh" ends, close the big tank valve and unscrew your now 80% refilled tank. I imagine you could heat your tank with the valve open, close the valve and let it cool to have a vacuum pull in more than 80%, but why bother. Just re-fill the tank again when it runs dry. Comments from Amazon..com
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,037
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 11, 2014 22:07:10 GMT -5
Dave, has anyone mentioned the hazards of using propane? I think people should know.
It's heavier than air and if it leaks in a closed area like a garage or basement a pilot light or light switch spark can result in a Big Bang. Most city codes require that tanks be stored outdoors with the gas piped in because in hot weather propane can escape from a relief valve if there's too much internal pressure from heat expansion. I'm not sure if that's true of the smaller tanks but the 5-gallon ones for BBQs are made that way. That's why most refill stations don't fill them all the way. I suggest people do careful due diligence before going to propane. I use it and like it a lot but mine is stored in a ventilated area where excess gas can't accumulate. Rick
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 11, 2014 22:10:24 GMT -5
My brother got one of those to refill the small bottles from a 20 lb bottle. The problem is the big tank needs to go on top. So, depending on what you are doing, you would need to build a stand - as I have seen suggested in many places. He had a little buddy heater that took 1 lb bottles and thought this would be a good idea. He gave up on it and got a big buddy.
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Post by 1dave on Jan 11, 2014 22:22:33 GMT -5
gemfeller someone needs to do a thread on torch safety, and it needs to be Sticky. Any volunteers?
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Daniel Green
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2009
Posts: 19
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Post by Daniel Green on Jan 11, 2014 23:15:28 GMT -5
They sell a Conversion Hose that will hook those larger tanks directly to the portable appliances, torches, etc. Bout $20 at most Hardware stores. I have one of those refill adapters and it's a pain to use.
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Geoff
spending too much on rocks
Please add 1074 to my post number.
Member since December 2012
Posts: 446
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Post by Geoff on Jan 11, 2014 23:47:26 GMT -5
Refilling non-refillable gas cylinders is dangerous because the metal is stressed to it's maximum, and because the inelasticity of the metal concentrates stress and fatigues the metal. gizmology.net/dot39.htm
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,037
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Post by gemfeller on Jan 11, 2014 23:55:21 GMT -5
gemfeller someone needs to do a thread on torch safety, and it needs to be Sticky. Any volunteers? Not me Dave. I agree it needs to be done but it requires the imprimatur of an expert, not someone subject to liability suits due to circulating potentially incorrect and dangerous info. Most of the major torch manufacturers and fuel gas suppliers have easily-accessed data sheets that discuss safety issues. That's why I recommended individual "due diligence." Rick
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 12, 2014 0:11:48 GMT -5
gemfeller someone needs to do a thread on torch safety, and it needs to be Sticky. Any volunteers? Not me Dave. I agree it needs to be done but it requires the imprimatur of an expert, not someone subject to liability suits due to circulating potentially incorrect and dangerous info. Most of the major torch manufacturers and fuel gas suppliers have easily-accessed data sheets that discuss safety issues. That's why I recommended individual "due diligence." Rick I agree. Maybe we should have a sticky for safety links instead. I think it would be better to read what the experts are already saying.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,583
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Post by jamesp on Jan 12, 2014 0:24:52 GMT -5
I got a 25 foot hose on my big oxy/acetylene tanks. The tanks stay outside and i bring the torch thru the window.
Thats probably a no no. At least there is a brick wall between me and those bloody tanks.
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Post by connrock on Jan 12, 2014 9:58:18 GMT -5
We had acetylene "generators" (where we made our own acetylene) in 2 of our plants in work.As a pipefitter I occasionally had to work on them and the piping.We had all brass tools and had to take everything of of our person that could cause a spark,,,even some of our belt buckles!
All of the gasses we use for our hobby/work are dangerous!
Something I don't think has been mentioned here is that an acetylene tank should NEVER be laid on it's side and should be chained to keep it from falling.
gemfeller,,,I would have loved to be able to go with propane instead of acetylene with my Little Torch, but,as you said,it can't be stored in the home. I'm glad you posted about propane safety and I hope all of the people who are starting out with using torches and different types of gas read it! connrock
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Post by 1dave on Jan 12, 2014 11:16:23 GMT -5
We are way to blase' around oxygen. Someone accidentally knocked a tank off a ledge down into a pit. The valve broke and that tank pretended it was a released balloon for quite a while gouging chunks of concrete out until it finally calmed down and went back to sleep.
One of Azimov's murder mysteries had a bad guy put a little Vaseline on an oxygen valve and when his victim opened the valve, BOOM!
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unclesoska
freely admits to licking rocks
All those jade boulders tossed in search of gold!
Member since February 2011
Posts: 934
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Post by unclesoska on Jan 12, 2014 15:11:30 GMT -5
I've used the refilling adapter a number of times. Sometimes it gives a good refill, and sometime only a little gets into the 1#er. I've tried bleeding it prior to refill with mixed results. The hose adapter that goes from big tank to small appliance always works, so I just use adapter valve in desperate moments. And as always, SAFETY 1st!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,583
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Post by jamesp on Jan 12, 2014 15:21:07 GMT -5
Laughing, i got my jewelry shop set up in the silver overseas container. Imagine a full size oxy tank bouncing off the walls with a human in it. Or worse-exploding !!
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Tom
fully equipped rock polisher
My dad Tom suddenly passed away yesterday, Just wanted his "rock" family to know.
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,557
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Post by Tom on Jan 12, 2014 18:57:55 GMT -5
Good point on the acetylene tank NOT to be laid down. If you have had one laid down before you use it let it stand up for a long time. I can't tell you how long for fear of being sued. Wait I am in Canada that makes it harder for y'all:) Us folks up here are not as "sue crazy" as my US friends, but its coming. Just use some common sense and if in doubt google safety, call a company that deals in gases, ask!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I teach electrical, worked in heavy industry as an electrician, have an electrical eng degree. We push safety hard, electricity is silent, you can't see it, you can't hear it, yet its very safe is handled properly. I made two mistakes in my 35 year career that hurt me. In both cases there were underlying circumstances (other people involved) but bottom line aty the end of the day both were my fault.
In one case I got hung up on 347V (common in Canada) I burnt through the palm of my hand to the bone. The second case a 600V starter blew up, this time getting my other hand and arm. both incidents were 3rd degree burns and either could have killed me, lucky I am a good healer because I hardly have any scarring at all:)
Those tanks that are sitting innocently are very safe to as long as the rules are followed. Bottom line rule is use common sense, something a lot of people unfortunately lack. If you don't know don't touch until you know. These tanks made in NA are well made and safe if used properly.
Ok lecture/rant over LOL. Not trying to scare anyone just bringing awareness
Have a great day
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Post by radio on Jan 12, 2014 19:32:22 GMT -5
If you buy the disposable tanks at Sam's Club, Costco or big box store like that they are very reasonable in cost and not worth the hassle of refilling to me. Seems like I pay about $10 for a 4 pack. One of these will last for 3 to 4 of the 20 cubic foot tanks of oxygen. That's a ratio of $2.50 in propane to about $60 in Oxygen. Trying to save on the propane cost is kinda like to old saw of "Gag at a a Gnat and swallow a Camel" On the safety issue of propane, I seriously doubt one of the disposable containers would have enough gas in it to create an explosion hazard if it leaked unless it was in a very small enclosed space. One of the big BBQ tanks, definitely more risk
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Post by 1dave on Jan 13, 2014 17:04:04 GMT -5
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Daniel Green
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2009
Posts: 19
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Post by Daniel Green on Jan 14, 2014 22:48:27 GMT -5
Some Propane Facts: 1 Gallon of propane is about 91,502 BTUs, Propane weighs 4.25 lb/Gal. Water weighs 8.33 lb/Gal. Recently they stopped filling 20# to ~80% capacity, now they only put 15# or about 61% capacity lp in them ripping you off and making higher profits. Being an HVACR Guy I deal with Liquid Gases all the time and have to recover them into tanks identical to LP tanks. All Tanks have there ratings stamped on them. The average tank will hold about 46.7# of Water, which is 24.276# of Propane. That's 100% Full which you can't do on a tank containing Liquefied Gas, because as the tank heats up the liquid will expand and will have nowhere to go and blow the relief valve causing and explosion hazard or could rupture the tank. Your only allowed to fill a tank like this to 80% of it's WC capacity. Which is 19.42# Propane. Propane Safety
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Post by radio on Jan 15, 2014 9:33:01 GMT -5
Some Propane Facts: 1 Gallon of propane is about 91,502 BTUs, Propane weighs 4.25 lb/Gal. Water weighs 8.33 lb/Gal. Recently they stopped filling 20# to ~80% capacity, now they only put 15# or about 61% capacity lp in them ripping you off and making higher profits. Propane SafetyThis is very true of the tanks at places you exchange empties for pre filled ones. If you want your moneys worth, take your empty to a place that fills tanks and you will get your full 20 pounds. Cost is about the same or even a bit less than the pre (sorta;-) filled tanks. Some places put them on a scale and others without a scale fill them until the propane vents out of the bleeder screw
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Daniel Green
off to a rocking start
Member since April 2009
Posts: 19
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Post by Daniel Green on Jan 15, 2014 14:14:15 GMT -5
Some Propane Facts: 1 Gallon of propane is about 91,502 BTUs, Propane weighs 4.25 lb/Gal. Water weighs 8.33 lb/Gal. Recently they stopped filling 20# to ~80% capacity, now they only put 15# or about 61% capacity lp in them ripping you off and making higher profits. Propane SafetyThis is very true of the tanks at places you exchange empties for pre filled ones. If you want your moneys worth, take your empty to a place that fills tanks and you will get your full 20 pounds. Cost is about the same or even a bit less than the pre (sorta;-) filled tanks. Some places put them on a scale and others without a scale fill them until the propane vents out of the bleeder screw Not all refill places will give ya the full 20# Some will say 20# on the receipt but will give you 3.7 Gallons which is the same as 15# so always check your receipt... www.orangecoat.com/the-truth-about-filling-20-lb-bbq-grill-propane-tanks
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Post by rockjunquie on Jan 15, 2014 14:20:55 GMT -5
We take ours in to Truvalue to get filled. They have a scale. A new guy did it one time when it was really cold out. A few weeks later, we had a warm spell and started smelling gas. Sure enough, the overfill was leaking. Nothing we could do about it either except let it bleed slowly or crack the tank. A few days later it was cold again. It stopped and was fine til we used it.
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