rockwolfe
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2007
Posts: 6
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Post by rockwolfe on May 9, 2007 4:31:50 GMT -5
Hello all, don't be misled by my handle, I actually know very little about rocks.
However, I seek some basic advice about tumbling with a different focus than what many of you folks may be used to. I'm a teacher working in an international private kindergarten in Japan, and I'd like to start teaching the kids about rocks, and what you can do with rocks. They already know what you CAN'T do, and that's throw them.
Around the kindergarten campus, I've found several small stones that I believe would look really nice after tumbling and polishing, and would like to start classroom activities with the children where they go on their own little rock hunt around the school grounds, and I set up a tumbler to polish up their stones.
I don't expect the results to be fantastic, but the activity itself would be great for the kids. Now, I've done some research on the net itself, but after several hours, my biggest questions have yet to be answered, so I come seeking advice from enthusiasts who have a much greater wealth of knowledge about this subject material.
1. What is a good mid-range priced tumbler (around $200) that can do about 24-30 small rocks in a single load (each rock about the size of an average persons thumb from the tip to the first knuckle)? Should I expect to do smaller loads than that?
1a. Noise will be an issue, are some tumblers known to be quieter than others?
1b. Durability is another issue, will it last through some pretty frequent usage over the course of at least three years? What kind of maintenance do I need to learn to do on it to ensure the machine keeps tumbling?
2. Some rocks from the yard are going to be harder than others. There's chunks of very hard material that a child may want to have tumbled, as well as other, softer rocks. Can they be tumbled together? Should I also start shopping for books on identifying rocks and their hardness and separate the loads like you separate laundry?
3. How quickly does one go through grit and polish? How much should I order to accomodate approximately 300 rocks overall?
Thank you for your time and knowledge, it is much appreciated.
Eric-sensei, Sunnyside Kokusai Youchien
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wildshack
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since February 2007
Posts: 80
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Post by wildshack on May 9, 2007 6:08:01 GMT -5
Hey RockWolfe,
Pretty new to this myself, but will try and answer some questions and hopefully others will correct me where I mess up.
1. I believe any rotary of 3 lbs or higher can handle 24-40 small rocks. I understand vibratory are louder, but much faster. Rotary will take at least 6 weeks for most rocks. Lortone and Thumblers should last a long time with occasional belt replacement. My experience is with Lortone.
2. They need to be close to each other in hardness to be tumbled together, in a rotary. Not sure about vibratory.
3. Grit is basically used up in each batch, though not alot. See the basic instructions on the main page here. The polish can be re-used with a little new each batch. Need to multiply the number of batches by the suggested amounts.
Hope this helps
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Post by connrock on May 9, 2007 6:41:15 GMT -5
Hi rockwolfe and welcome to our group! My you have a lot of questions!! LOL You have already been given some very good advise but I'll add my 2 cents worth as well. I always suggest a 3 barrel tumbler for beginners One barrel will be used for the roughing stage,one for an intermediate stage and one solely for the polish/burnish stages. This unit has 3,,,,1-1/2 lb barrels which I think will handle the load you are looking for. Note: remember that you MUST have a load of mixed size rocks ,1/3 being smaller then the rest. This unit is quiet and durable and should outlast several of your school children's college graduations! It takes very little to maintain and is and the smaller barrels means smaller clean-ups. Mixing rocks of a different hardness is a big no-no! You can take a piece of quartz,a small file,piece of broken glass or a good jackknife and try to scratch the rocks.If the do scratch then they will not polish very easily. You won't use much grit/polish with this tumbler and I really don't know how readable these are in Japan.I doubt if you will find them at all. Is there an American Military Base near you and,if so do you know someone there?The reason I ask is that the USPS considers any USA base the same as the continental USA and the Flat Rate boxes can be used for shipping!! This will make it a LOT cheaper for you to get "goodie" packages from us here on the board!! If not,you will have to figure out a way to pay the postman!! LOL One VERY important note of caution is NEVER wash ANY of the tumblers or the slurry (muck from grinding grit/rocks/water) down ANY drain as it WILL turn to cement and clog the drain! This should get you going and I hope I've helped a tad! connrock
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Post by LCARS on May 9, 2007 10:40:16 GMT -5
Welcome Rockwolfe! You definately came to the right place for your questions. I am home sick from work today and normally I would be glad to offer some advice in relation to your situation but to be honest I really don't feel like writing a long post right now. If someone else hasn't come along and filled in the blanks for you by later on today though, I can send you a message that covers your concerns at length. We are always happy to help get someone off to a good start with rock tumbling. Rob
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Post by cina on May 9, 2007 11:11:13 GMT -5
I use a 3,,,,1-1/2 lb and I do this with my kids who do most the work we have never had any problems with it and the kids love to do it! The only thing I would add is with the age you are working with it may be hard to keep them on treck it can take 6+ weeks to get a load done I do a lesson at each recharge once a week to teach the kids a new rock fact *they love Dino poop lol * then it is not to much at one time. Best wishes and good luck and welcome and and and.....Have fun! Steph
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Post by Jack ( Yorkshire) on May 10, 2007 2:46:46 GMT -5
Hi Rockwolfe, Greetings and welcome to the board, please free to share any problem and there will always be someone willing to help you.
I cant add any thing else except make sure you use rubber barrels if noise is a problem.
I can send you a PDF file on Polishing rocks that was sent out from the Lapidary tips section if you want a copy email me john@matco.me.uk
One last thing you need Patience by the barrow full!!! especially with young children thats why the 3 barrel system is so good once you get going
Jack Yorkshire UK
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lsmike
spending too much on rocks
Maxwell's demon lowers tumbling entropy
Member since January 2007
Posts: 468
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Post by lsmike on May 10, 2007 17:29:14 GMT -5
It souds as if you have fairly smooth rock to work so you could use a small vibratory tumbler such as the Lotto.It is not very loud,is faster than a rotary and you can take the lid off so the children can watch the stones tumble.N.B.:the Lotto must be glued to a heavy base such as a cement block.In your case that means the tots won't be tippihg it over.Mike.
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rockwolfe
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2007
Posts: 6
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Post by rockwolfe on May 15, 2007 8:23:33 GMT -5
Thanks for all the great tips and information. I looked at the Lortone dealerships sites and found that 3barrel, price isn't bad at all!
Because I'll need to do a lot of volume, and quickly, considering the sheer size of our kindergarten (over 200 students!) I may skip on the polishing stage and just hand out the smooth stones, using all three barrels at once for rounding and then wash them out as best I can for the intermediate stages. Like I said before, not expecting great results.
If I find myself getting hooked on the hobby (very likely, always been interested in it), I may order a few more barrels for some personal use and special projects with purchased rock.
How does one go about sound-proofing? Get some plywood, make a box, and line it with egg-carton shaped foam? Only way I can think of, well, only cheap way I can think of.
I read one tip to glue a strip of rubber to the inside of the barrels to force stones to tumble, rather than slide up and down the inside of the barrel. What is a good kind of glue to use? Would Epoxy or another kind of bonding agent work well? What really fuses well with rubber, causing a literal welding to occur?
In case I want to take it home for summer break and do some tumbling in my apartment and not disturb the neighbors in the silence of the night, is it okay to run the tumbler during the day, then shut it off at night, and restart it in the morning? Other than making project take 30% longer, is there any ill-effects that would befall the stones or machine itself from that kind of stop-go operation?
Edit: As for the postage issue, I have a great postal reception and forwarding agency known as Mom and Dad! All the stuff I buy online that won't ship beyond the continental 48, I just send to Minnesota, and have them mail it to me! Works great!
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donsimpson
starting to spend too much on rocks
Duncan and Mari's Dad
Member since September 2006
Posts: 176
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Post by donsimpson on May 15, 2007 11:44:49 GMT -5
I have two Lortone tumblers, a 3# and a dual #3, set up on 1.5" thick Styrofoam. Then I fit a large, four sided (open on the bottom and the front) box over the top. The inside surfaces have egg-carton foam glued to it. I leave the front open so it won't get really hot inside. From 5 feet away, it sounds like a distant surf.
I wouldn't worry about gluing a strip of rubber inside the barrel. If you fill it 2/3 - 3/4 full, the rocks should tumble fine.
As long as the tumblers are not sitting directly on a hard surface, and you have a little sound absorbent material around them (even a cardboard box with holes in it and a towel over it), you shouldn't have problems with your neighbors.
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Post by sandsman1 on May 16, 2007 23:08:24 GMT -5
if you use the 3-1-1/2 lortone i dont think its loud enough to bother someone in church haha its very quiet --- that was my first tumbler and i ran it for awile in an apartment never a complaint and i ran it 24/7 when you start getting into the bigger tumblers or vibes they start makin enough noise to worry about -- and with rubber barrels you realy dont need the strip inside to make the stone tumble just keep it 3/4 full and you should be fine -- if you still are worried about noise just find a sheet of rubber and sit it on that and it will dampin any vibration noise --- and yes they run hot so dont get nervouse they all do just let it breath and it will be fine--- and WELCOME to the fourm dont be a stranger haha
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rockwolfe
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2007
Posts: 6
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Post by rockwolfe on May 17, 2007 3:56:28 GMT -5
Well, I'll try my best to not be a stranger, no promises though, because the busy season is just around the corner, and then it's work and sleep only, with just enough time to catch a bite to eat.
I'll take pictures of the kids on their rock hunt, and see if I can find hosting, then post them on the board.
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rockwolfe
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2007
Posts: 6
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Post by rockwolfe on May 18, 2007 9:26:25 GMT -5
as for the insulation underneath, I was just going to put an old towel, folded up to about 1/2 and inch thickness, underneath the unit. That should handle the all the dampening I need as well as any styrofoam or rubber.
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Post by krazydiamond on May 18, 2007 15:11:47 GMT -5
is there a utility/maintenance closet that your school will let you use? the units do generate some heat and need ventilation. what part of Japan is your school in?
KD
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rockwolfe
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2007
Posts: 6
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Post by rockwolfe on May 22, 2007 10:08:56 GMT -5
Well, one small oversight that will help considerably in terms of the noise of the machine. During the summer nights, all the frogs from the rice patties will surely overpower the noise from a tumbler. However, summer is hot, humid, and in the utility room (with windows!) does get pretty stuffy, I'll likely have to open up the windows and convince the maintenance guy to leave it open all the time.
If it's still looking like the unit is getting too hot, I'll buy a fan and have it blow across the tumbler.
The school is in a rural part of Gifu, just a little bit west of Nagoya.
Tumbler is on its way!
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yogibear
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2006
Posts: 100
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Post by yogibear on May 22, 2007 11:36:41 GMT -5
i use an old piece of fairly heavy carpet under my 2 two barel tumblers and the noise is less than the noise of rain falling on a garage roof that has no insulation in it.
Good luck with your project.
yogibear
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rockwolfe
off to a rocking start
Member since May 2007
Posts: 6
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Post by rockwolfe on May 30, 2007 7:03:13 GMT -5
Well, the package arrived today, and I got started on a batch of rocks I've been collecting for the past several months, long before I placed my order for a tumbler. Wow, this thing is really quiet! Nothing like my childhood memories of my cousins tumbler, but then again, time does distort memory. Yeah, I'm going to have no problem at all running this thing in my apartment. My computer makes more noise than this thing! I'll be taking it to the kindergarten next week, after I do some roughing on my personal batch first. You know... just to test it out. The unit itself was extremely light, I was quite surprised. the majority of the weight of the package was in the surplus grit I bought for mass rounding. Anyhow, I sent the kids on a mini-rock hunt the other day, took a few pictures of their search and results. I'll post them soon on a new thread. Keep an eye on the adventures of Japanese 3 year olds as they learn about rocks!
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