jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 5:45:29 GMT -5
Calcium Hydroxide(lime)- At a high ph of 12.4 expect damage to skin. May damage acidic stones Muriatic Acid-Agates soaked in straight store bought muriatic acid can have calcium bearing pockets that will dissolve and leave serious pits Calcium Carbonate(powdered limestone)- At a ph of about 9.4 it is quite safe
Calcium Carbonate(325 mesh crushed limestone) is cheap at about $8 for a 50 pound bag. The most common source is mined from limestone deposits. Most bagged limestone is crushed a fine powder, about 325 mesh. It is user friendly, will dry skin out a bit. It is the main ingredient in Tums and other antacids.
After tumbling rocks in a rotary tumbler with lime no ill effects noticed, except it best be handled with gloves. Testing high ph lime to see if gas is a problem, or any other unknown issues.
Converting to crushed limestone tumbling slurry is working well and is not so hard on skin. Tested for abrasives in the crushed limestone by wetting a clean cotton rag and adding limestone and then rubbing it on glass. Found no scratches, so assuming no quartz or other hard particles present. Limestone source is Cartersville Ga., and seemingly abrasive free.
Limestone slurry similar to lime slurry, heavy and slick. Water in slurry cooks off and leaves nice reusable powder with grits AO 500 and smaller contained. Limestone cake crushable in plastic bag with fingers for reuse. Often fine grits like aluminum oxide 500 and smaller are reusable if used in a rotary tumbler.
As a quick slurry to assist as a grit carrier, further tests needed on the powdered limestone. Looking good though.
The powdered limestone settles faster than the lime. No surprise. But still stays suspended well. And will make a thick slurry if needed. Cutting effects may be hindered by really thick slurry, another test.
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Post by snowmom on Nov 10, 2014 6:55:03 GMT -5
love these reports. Now you have questions going in my head about PH... so interesting... thanks!
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 8:40:56 GMT -5
love these reports. Now you have questions going in my head about PH... so interesting... thanks! The lime was to high in ph snowmom. Made your skin shrivel, not so good. The muriatic acid cooks the calcite and other calcium based minerals. Had to see it for myself.
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Post by connrock on Nov 10, 2014 9:20:30 GMT -5
,,,,,,,,,and you say that I don't rest??? LOL connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 9:45:33 GMT -5
,,,,,,,,,and you say that I don't rest??? LOL connrock Really. Well, I persist in with one project. are you persisting in multiple projects ?
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Post by snowmom on Nov 10, 2014 10:41:02 GMT -5
hmmm, what if you use vinegar instead of water for making the slurry... (after the fizz dies down... I have this picture in my mind!)
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alan
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by alan on Nov 10, 2014 10:53:56 GMT -5
I wonder if alkaline solutions help speed up polishing stages a bit... Silica is slightly more soluble in High pH, but the solution will reach saturation quickly...
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 11:40:37 GMT -5
hmmm, what if you use vinegar instead of water for making the slurry... (after the fizz dies down... I have this picture in my mind!) Good chemistry question. I see the limestone dissolved by acidic water flows in rivers. But do not know where it goes. Mostly a tannic acid reaction. Vinegar another type acid. It is one of those CHn2 + HCL + N2SU4 equations from another life LOL. Maybe a wine formula or Southern Discomfort may occur.ha It may take a long time to react snowmom, and create a supply of gas for a long time. I was curious if acidic rocks running in limestone powder would create gas. Maybe the reaction is too slow.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 11:47:38 GMT -5
I wonder if alkaline solutions help speed up polishing stages a bit... Silica is slightly more soluble in High pH, but the solution will reach saturation quickly... At ph 9.4 I would be surprised Alan. What do you think ? It may, guessing it would take a really long time.
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Post by fantastic5 on Nov 10, 2014 13:09:20 GMT -5
I just removed a piece of Crabtree Emerald Mine quartz, feldspar, and biotite that I had soaking in muratic acid for 5 days. It had the slightest hint of a green beryl at the junction of the peg and biotite layer. After 5 days I now have several exposed light blue beryls showing (almost gemmy). Not the beryl that I was hoping for, but should clean up to make a nice display piece. Soaking in clean H20 now then will continue to expose the beryls. I'll post a pic when done. I really like chemically cleaning and removing matrix when possible. hmmm...tumbling with muratic? Dangerous on so many levels, but would really chew through some material. Think I would leave those trials to someone else.
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Post by captbob on Nov 10, 2014 13:24:51 GMT -5
hmmm...tumbling with muratic? Dangerous on so many levels, but would really chew through some material. Think I would leave those trials to someone else. Now you've done it! < wondering how hard it would be to take out a Life Insurance policy on jamesp >
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 14:28:36 GMT -5
I just removed a piece of Crabtree Emerald Mine quartz, feldspar, and biotite that I had soaking in muratic acid for 5 days. It had the slightest hint of a green beryl at the junction of the peg and biotite layer. After 5 days I now have several exposed light blue beryls showing (almost gemmy). Not the beryl that I was hoping for, but should clean up to make a nice display piece. Soaking in clean H20 now then will continue to expose the beryls. I'll post a pic when done. I really like chemically cleaning and removing matrix when possible. hmmm...tumbling with muratic? Dangerous on so many levels, but would really chew through some material. Think I would leave those trials to someone else. LOL, I would never tumble with muriatic acid, just soaked a few agates in it to see what would happen. But soaking that coral may do some weird things Ann. Guessing it would remove the calcium layer and leave some strange formations. The acid should dissolve the white part and leave the silicified part. It may bring out the polyp patterns on the skin too. The are some real fine silicified sections of the corallite.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2014 14:37:21 GMT -5
hmmm...tumbling with muratic? Dangerous on so many levels, but would really chew through some material. Think I would leave those trials to someone else. Now you've done it! < wondering how hard it would be to take out a Life Insurance policy on jamesp > Life Insurance !! My wife watches this show
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Post by connrock on Nov 11, 2014 7:00:24 GMT -5
James it may seem like I'm working on more then 1 project but I'm really not! My "project" is to learn to work with copper jewelery so I have to "experiment" with different ideas and techniques to get to where I'd like to be.
Your "project"(right now) is tumbling.You're trying different approaches to it which involves a lot of trial,error,research,,,,,,,and the occasional use of Preparation H! LOL
I think we're both knocking at the same door but with different projects! connrock
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Post by connrock on Nov 11, 2014 7:07:23 GMT -5
Git-Er-Done! LOL connrock
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 11, 2014 9:40:47 GMT -5
Git-Er-Done! LOL connrock LOL. They(Lortone) finally sent 5 pounds of 2000-9000 polish to try. Looking forward to testing it. Will try some on AO 1000 obsidian in super thick lime slurry to see if it can polish. Seems to thick to polish, but who knows. Also coral @1000. It has been running in AO 1000 for almost 3 weeks, waiting for this polish. it has a decent shine by now, no surprise. Rotaries sloooow to break those grits down. The vibs do that so well. And another barrel at week 6 in SiC 30/60, started it on AO 46 just for kicks to see if it breaks down and lets the 220 step go faster. I found a 5 gallon bucket of AO 46 for sand blasting for $20 at a junk yard. Have cut copper sheet down to pendant size pieces. Rotary tumble it with AO 46 at 50% copper and 50% tumbled granite pea gravel. Gets rid of all the burrs, rounds edges nice. Then hammering gives nice finish. It still takes 3-4 days to round the edges in the tumbler... And you got to watch for gas. Redneck shear for mass cuttings: Effect of metal tumble on German silver: Piece of 4 gauge wire Piece of German silver
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 11:36:16 GMT -5
I wonder if alkaline solutions help speed up polishing stages a bit... Silica is slightly more soluble in High pH, but the solution will reach saturation quickly... At ph 9.4 I would be surprised Alan. What do you think ? It may, guessing it would take a really long time. Have you tested the solution to see it at 9.4? I have had turtles and fish that thrive in saturated chalkwater and when I tested the pH it was 8.1, but mine was saturated solution, not slurry, that is why I ask.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 11, 2014 13:07:18 GMT -5
not with litmus paper Scott, just with my hands. the C Hydroxide is quite hot, the C Carbonate not hardly effecting my hands. C Hydroxide slurry is supposed to be 12...depending on temp, and slurry density. My slurry was hot. Maybe ph goes up w/decreasing temps-strange. They are both effected by slurry density I suppose, all I know is the C Carbonated does not cook my skin. feels 9-10, and user friendly.
the water out of my Florida artesian well comes out at 8.1. will stiffen your stools. but delicious water. me and Ponce like that water. Probably good for making kidney stones that could be tumbled.
i think the bag said 9.4, i suppose wetted, things change. But, no more C Hydroxide.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 11, 2014 14:06:08 GMT -5
when calcium hydroxide is introduced into water, the act of dissolving releases a LOT of heat. It's called heat of dissolution. It can be dangerous as so much heat can be released that the water boils splashing caustic fluid onto the chemist. Thick soapy caustic solutions are difficult to wash away too so you get a double burn. One from the heat and the other from the caustic.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 11, 2014 14:26:37 GMT -5
when calcium hydroxide is introduced into water, the act of dissolving releases a LOT of heat. It's called heat of dissolution. It can be dangerous as so much heat can be released that the water boils splashing caustic fluid onto the chemist. Thick soapy caustic solutions are difficult to wash away too so you get a double burn. One from the heat and the other from the caustic. You had mentioned it was dangerous in some situations. It is slow to wash off. Bad combo. It got my attention when it irritated my skin. Another location had powdered limestone. it is fine. Lime trucks are every where here to spread lime for ph adjustments to soil. It is very common. Limestone less popular. i am liking the limestone, and way cheaper than sugar. And perfect for reclaiming grit. Both can make a slurry so thick the rocks roll with the barrel. user friendly because it gets slightly thicker with time, if it got thinner it can sneak up and damage your tumbles. Guessing it will work in the vib too. Fooled w/dolomite, it seems to have quartz or felspar particles that scratch glass. OK for agates, not softer materials. The limestone from higher elevation, must be from the higher ocean that once covered Georgia. As opposed to where my coral formed in some shallow ocean down in lowlands of Georgia. The coral did form on limestone bedrock from a prior deeper ocean.
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