chassroc
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Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
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Post by chassroc on Dec 18, 2014 14:37:21 GMT -5
Our Courts continue to wreak havoc on the rights of citizens in the USA
If this is true... On Monday, the Supreme Court ruled that police stops are legal when the officer has a "reasonable suspicion" that a law is being broken—even if that law doesn't exist.
I love the double-speak...reasonable suspicion of committing a non-existent crime
Only in America
charlie
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 18, 2014 14:59:18 GMT -5
I think it is also a great idea to carry cam videos in our autos too,because of this situation now!!! Video doesn't lie! I have only been stopped one time for no reason,I asked and I told him that if there wasn't a probable cause,he had to let me go-he did.... Some people don't know their rights and need to study and (or) learn the facts with Police Officers.. Double standard or double-speak.........Yes sir,sounds about right on certain situations... In my opinion,our America as we see it,is headed to the crapper!!! Sad sad sad!!!!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 18, 2014 16:21:20 GMT -5
Ignorance of the law is no excuse... unless you are law enforcement. Sadly, only Kagan got that one right. Mike video wont help in these cases.and When ignorance is an excuse, they have carte blanche, video or not. They can do as they please and then later say Actually, videos of all kinds just got neutered into uselessness.
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Fossilman
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Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Dec 18, 2014 16:43:58 GMT -5
DAMN!!!
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Dec 19, 2014 0:59:40 GMT -5
I know a guy who was picked up in western Oregon, on a warrant out of Colorado, spent a week in jail, and it was mistaken identity. Just happened to be same first and last name, cops wouldn't pursue further proof of identity. After a week in the can and nearly getting sent to Colorado, his dad got the needed identity proof and they let him out. The cop that picked him up called us on suggestion; he had a dog with him and the cop didn't know what to do with it. If not for the dog, his pickup would have been towed too, and guess who would have had to pay for that.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 19, 2014 2:51:15 GMT -5
Ignorance of the law is no excuse... unless you are law enforcement. Sadly, only Kagan got that one right. The police officer should have been arrested in this case for felony coercion and assault and battery. You CANNOT be threatened or otherwise forced to sign a ticket. The whole process of being pulled over an ticketed is illegal to begin with. First of all the Courts have ruled that police can only use lights and siren in emergency situations. Being pulled over for a minor traffic infraction is not an emergency situation. Secondly, the Rules of Civil Procedure prohibit the service of Summons by an interested party, which includes witnesses. Since the officer is a witness the officer cannot serve you with a ticket, which is actually a Summons to appear. And in my state the Rules of Civil Procedure CLEARLY state that ALL Summons must be on 8.5 X 11 inch white paper with the Court heading, double lined and numbered. The ticket is an improper and thus illegal Summons being served illegally by the officer. The ONLY way you can be served with this Summons is by waiving your rights. Signing the Summons (ticket) waives your RIGHT to proper service of Summons. If you establish this right before refusing to sign away your rights then any threat made by the officer to induce you to waive those rights constitutes felony coercion and the cop can be arrested by citizen arrest and can also be sued civilly for any harm resulting from that action such as false arrest. If you sue civilly though the officer should be also sued as an individual, not an officer so they cannot use public money to higher a defense attorney. Since the officer is breaking the law and breaking the law is not part of the job description the cop is acting outside of their authority and job description and thus does not have any legal protection offered to cops acting within the scope of their job. This also applies to other public officials including judges. I would have to look up the Supreme Court Ruling again, but in short the Supreme Court that was actually following the Constitution in the late 1800s ruled that if a judge violated the rights of either party that they were acting outside of their judicial authority and thus has no judicial authority or protection and could be criminally charged with fraud (for being paid to act as a judge when they were acting outside of judicial authority) against the parties and the state, and for "treason against the Constitution".
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chassroc
Cave Dweller
Rocks are abundant when you have rocktumblinghobby pals
Member since January 2005
Posts: 3,586
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Post by chassroc on Dec 19, 2014 8:31:27 GMT -5
Ignorance of the law is no excuse... unless you are law enforcement. Sadly, only Kagan got that one right. The police officer should have been arrested in this case for felony coercion and assault and battery. You CANNOT be threatened or otherwise forced to sign a ticket. The whole process of being pulled over an ticketed is illegal to begin with. First of all the Courts have ruled that police can only use lights and siren in emergency situations. Being pulled over for a minor traffic infraction is not an emergency situation. Secondly, the Rules of Civil Procedure prohibit the service of Summons by an interested party, which includes witnesses. Since the officer is a witness the officer cannot serve you with a ticket, which is actually a Summons to appear. And in my state the Rules of Civil Procedure CLEARLY state that ALL Summons must be on 8.5 X 11 inch white paper with the Court heading, double lined and numbered. The ticket is an improper and thus illegal Summons being served illegally by the officer. The ONLY way you can be served with this Summons is by waiving your rights. Signing the Summons (ticket) waives your RIGHT to proper service of Summons. If you establish this right before refusing to sign away your rights then any threat made by the officer to induce you to waive those rights constitutes felony coercion and the cop can be arrested by citizen arrest and can also be sued civilly for any harm resulting from that action such as false arrest. If you sue civilly though the officer should be also sued as an individual, not an officer so they cannot use public money to higher a defense attorney. Since the officer is breaking the law and breaking the law is not part of the job description the cop is acting outside of their authority and job description and thus does not have any legal protection offered to cops acting within the scope of their job. This also applies to other public officials including judges. I would have to look up the Supreme Court Ruling again, but in short the Supreme Court that was actually following the Constitution in the late 1800s ruled that if a judge violated the rights of either party that they were acting outside of their judicial authority and thus has no judicial authority or protection and could be criminally charged with fraud (for being paid to act as a judge when they were acting outside of judicial authority) against the parties and the state, and for "treason against the Constitution". You can be my lawyer!
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Post by parfive on Dec 19, 2014 14:42:38 GMT -5
He’s all yours, Chas. I wouldn’t higher ‘im. : )
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 19, 2014 15:13:34 GMT -5
LOL parfive . The auto finish on my phone can be a real PITA. While I agree with much of what vegasjames is saying in principle, the idea that there should be no traffic cops and we should be free to travel 100mph through a neighborhood doesn't work. The opposite extreme of setting up "checkpoints" to conduct fishing expeditions for illegal activities is equally heinous, or using cops to enforce social engineering experiments like HOV lanes. Bottom line is Cops aint lawyers, they don't know your rights and cannot be expected to have all the legal nuances memorized, so sign the damn ticket, and deal with the legalities in court where they have the time to look up all the details. Then, if it means so much to you, put your time and money into fixing the system. I think we should pay bonuses to state representatives who can remove more laws from the books than they add.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 20, 2014 0:18:42 GMT -5
LOL parfive . The auto finish on my phone can be a real PITA. While I agree with much of what vegasjames is saying in principle, the idea that there should be no traffic cops and we should be free to travel 100mph through a neighborhood doesn't work. The opposite extreme of setting up "checkpoints" to conduct fishing expeditions for illegal activities is equally heinous, or using cops to enforce social engineering experiments like HOV lanes. Bottom line is Cops aint lawyers, they don't know your rights and cannot be expected to have all the legal nuances memorized, so sign the damn ticket, and deal with the legalities in court where they have the time to look up all the details. Then, if it means so much to you, put your time and money into fixing the system. I think we should pay bonuses to state representatives who can remove more laws from the books than they add. I DID NOT say "that there should be no traffic cops and we should be free to travel 100mph through a neighborhood". My point is that the Constitution is supposed to guarantee EQUAL PROTECTION UNDER THE LAW. This means the laws need to be applied equally to everyone whether you are a citizen, a cop, a politician or a judge. And allowing the cops or judges to violate the law to enforce the law is simply wrong. But people have allowed the police to gain too much power. For instance, how often do we see cops prosecuted for beating, shooting or tazing suspects already in custody? We have had all sorts of such incidences here. In one case a 16 year old boy in hand cuffs was shot in the back and killed while running away. None of the police officers could chase down and catch an unarmed suspect with his hands cuffed behind his back? Was the police officer's life being threatened to justify lethal force? No, not at all. Was the officer ever charged? No. In another case an officer was beating an unarmed suspect on the ground with his baton. The suspect's girlfriend jumped on the cop's back to stop his from illegally beating the suspect so the cop pulled out his gun, shot and killed the UNARMED suspect in front of a bunch of witnesses. Was the cop ever charged? No. We have had numerous such cases of outright murder here by the Las Vegas Metropolitan Police Department, but the cops are never charged. Instead we have a circus of a Court thing here called the Coroner's Inquest, which is geared to make sure no cops are ever charged and prosecuted. The last count I heard years ago was 97 consecutive Coroner's Inquests in which the cops were found not guilty even though the suspects were clearly murdered. One of the greatest examples was three OFF DUTY police officers stole a key from a man's girlfriend, broke in to his apartment illegally at three o' clock in the morning and murdered the man by putting him in a choke hold. Al three cops were brought before a Coroner's Inquest, even though they were not on duty when the committed the crimes and therefore should have been tried in a Court of law and not a Coroner's Inquest. Of course they were found not guilty and thus never tried for their crimes. I can give a much longer list of examples. I have even been pulled over three times by the local police who admitted that I had not done anything wrong. They were just looking to harass someone. So do you think the police should be able to break the law and get away with it? Rockoonz: "Bottom line is Cops aint lawyers, they don't know your rights and cannot be expected to have all the legal nuances memorized, so sign the damn ticket, and deal with the legalities in court where they have the time to look up all the details." What a total crock of BS!!!!!!! What is the saying about ignorance is no excuse? Using your own reason most people in jail and prison should be set free because with so many laws none of us should be expected to know all the laws, even if you are an attorney. The fact is that cops are taught some law so they know more about the laws that the average person. If they don't then they need to get out of law enforcement since this is like a doctor prescribing drugs that they don't know what they do or their side effects or interactions. Furthermore, people should not be unfairly punished over the cop's ignorance of the law. You are supposed to be innocent until proven guilty, but since so much of the law has become about revenue generation it is now guilty regardless and you have to waste a lot of time and money attempting to prove otherwise. For example, here a lot of people don't realize that the judges in our Traffic Court get a cut of every judgement against a person going to their retirement fund. So you will be found guilty regardless of how much evidence you provide that you are innocent since the judge has a financial incentive to find you guilty. And being so the judge had a duty to recuse himself/herself from the case due to conflict of interest. Does that happen? Hell, no because again it is about revenue generation, not safety, and they are going to break any law or violate your rights however they have to in order to generate that revenue.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 20, 2014 0:36:30 GMT -5
He’s all yours, Chas. I wouldn’t higher ‘im. : ) No problem. I would not represent you anyway even if I could. But unlike the moronic cops who think the law is up to their interpretation I have studied a lot of law. I had a Court case against a former business partner for 3 1/2 years. I represented myself the entire time and got rid of his attorneys one by one. He was on his 5th attorney when I embarrassed that fool so bad in Court that he did not show up for the trial and I won by default. But I learned a lot from a friend who was a Federal attorney and who was known as the "Attorney From Hell" since she had never lost a case. She even sued the State of Utah in Utah and won. So I had a great teacher.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 20, 2014 0:46:16 GMT -5
The second you are accused of a crime is your bad day. Guilty or not. Burden of proof is on you. You have a problem. Money and your time are at stake and you will be fortunate if you come out unscathed. Law enforcement is a lucrative business. Need more be said ? Some are just, some ain't. It's a flip of the coin. Best thing to do is stay away from the whole lot.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 21, 2014 2:40:35 GMT -5
Still timely advice...
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