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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 18, 2015 18:58:31 GMT -5
I haven't been cutting rocks very long at all (3 years I think), but even in that time I've seen new types of rocks appear and become scarce.
It seems like when rocks are new and relatively common, people don't pay that much attention to them, but then they get scarce, and we think, Oh Sheet, I wish I wouldda bought a whole backyard full of that stuff when it was going for $5 per pound!
Some of the people on here can probably name off a whole list of such rocks. Rhodochrosite, Ocean Jasper (was it ever affordable?), Pink Bots, etc.
So what do you all suppose are those rocks that are affordable now (relatively speaking anyway) but won't be in a few years? And are also attractive enough that they warrant stocking up on a little?
Interested to hear your thoughts.
Susan/Bluesky
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 18, 2015 19:10:53 GMT -5
Some varieties of Owyhee picture jaspers are still affordable, and well worth stock piling. Also some of the more colorful varieties of obsidian, before the prices go through the ceiling.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 18, 2015 19:14:41 GMT -5
Yeah, the Mexican Velvet obsidian is already getting way up there and the nodules are getting smaller. Which Owyhees?
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Post by jakesrocks on Jun 18, 2015 20:06:33 GMT -5
Two reasons. #1 they're a porcelain jasper & take a beautiful shine. #2 Are the pictures that can be found in them. I started a thread on Owyhee jaspers a while back. Check out some of the picture possibilities. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/69856/picture-jaspers-owyhee-area-oregon?page=1 Oops, sorry Susan, I thought you said why Owyhee's ? The Wild Horse jasper is still fairly plentiful. But many of the other claims have been just about dug dry of material. A little searching on google for Owyhee jaspers will give you a good idea of what the going prices are.
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 18, 2015 20:12:33 GMT -5
Rianbow obsidian and some types of limbcast will get higher too.............
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 19, 2015 18:00:18 GMT -5
Good petrified palm fiber or root is getting scarcer. Botswanas, hawkseye ( blue tiger eye) African Rainbow Jasper, Forest fire jasper, Vogesite, Autumn Jasper, Oaxaca Travertine ( Rolling Hills), good silver lace travertine, good crazy lace. Shoot, most the good stuff is all getting real pricy these days. Especially since the Chinese are camped out at tons of popular claims skimming off the best and brightest material for their gemcrack and geegaw carving industry.....Mel
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by peachfront on Jun 22, 2015 11:40:17 GMT -5
I haven't been cutting rocks very long at all (3 years I think), but even in that time I've seen new types of rocks appear and become scarce. It seems like when rocks are new and relatively common, people don't pay that much attention to them, but then they get scarce, and we think, Oh Sheet, I wish I wouldda bought a whole backyard full of that stuff when it was going for $5 per pound! Some of the people on here can probably name off a whole list of such rocks. Rhodochrosite, Ocean Jasper (was it ever affordable?), Pink Bots, etc. So what do you all suppose are those rocks that are affordable now (relatively speaking anyway) but won't be in a few years? And are also attractive enough that they warrant stocking up on a little? Interested to hear your thoughts. Susan/Bluesky Personally I've seen the opposite. New material comes out, it's high-priced, and after you've bought too much, then it crashes down to nothing because of some random find in Madagascar (no idea if it's really found there or being laundered through there) or China (same same) and it never goes up to what you've paid again. I don't know when Pink Bots came out because I thought legal export of rough from Botswana was over for decades so maybe that's an excecption but I don't think they're any more expensive than they were before 911, are they? Same for Rhodo, Ocean Jasper, and the like, in fact, Ocean Jasper is cheaper! So I really advise not stockpiling. I kind of regret doing it. I'll never sell or work all this rock in my lifetime. You do need a large library of materials to pick from when you're creating but stockpiling for the sake of stockpiling isn't something I'd do again if I had it to do over. My vote is buy what you find you're particularly good at working. That's where you'll add value.
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
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Post by peachfront on Jun 22, 2015 11:42:21 GMT -5
Rianbow obsidian and some types of limbcast will get higher too............. I have some Rainbow Obsidian I wouldn't mind selling. Solid fracture free stuff. But it doesn't photograph well so in an internet age I doubt it's going to be easy to move...If you do gem shows or something maybe it would be all right?
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 22, 2015 12:20:00 GMT -5
Interesting perspective peachfront! (Sorry I don't know your first name). And, there will always be something new and fantastic to get later, right?
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Don
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Post by Don on Jun 22, 2015 12:27:44 GMT -5
So, what's a new "good" material that everyone is currently crazy about and is a cheap buy at the moment? I'm thinking Madagascar labradorite. The stuff is being mined and commercialized heavily, wonder how long it will last?
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Don
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He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
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Post by Don on Jun 22, 2015 12:29:38 GMT -5
Thinking back, I remember picking up 30lbs of blue lace agate about 5 years ago for 5/lb. now it seems impossible to touch anywhere near that price. regularly see it for 10-20/lb now. so I guess that was a good example of a cheap, plentiful material not too long ago that has since become scarce.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 22, 2015 12:31:36 GMT -5
Yup, labradorite for sure. I made a list looking on ebay last night but left it at home. Doesn't have to be a new material, just one that's fairly inexpensive and might run out someday. And that we like to cut.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 22, 2015 13:47:55 GMT -5
Kambaba jasper is one that I'm starting to see the quality slack off a little bit (the light green kind with dark green eyes). Seems like less patterns on the ebay postings recently.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 22, 2015 14:23:02 GMT -5
And, there will always be something new and fantastic to get later, right? People will move on to other gems, undoubtedly, but some things won't be available for the masses. I'm thinking of naturally silicified materials, which tend to occur in best quality in the top layers of deposits (or in vugs along fissures). The best, hard turquoise is always in those top layers, where water-borne silica hardened it. The rest is chalk and heavily treated (or outright faked), and that is largely what is available today, even as "rough." Same for other things, like silicified chrysocolla. As blasting away is largely out of the question in most areas, I'd think some of the more attractive patterned agates and jaspers will also continue to climb. Some gemrocks will be replaced by synthetics and fakes, which has also been happening (I've already come across fake Owyhee cabs from China, which are some sort of glass coated with Owyhee-type designs, the ongoing Andesine/Scamdesine frauds, rubies that are mostly some sort of glass, turquoise that's some sort of resin-infused plaster, ersatz inclusions in manmade quartz, etc.). Even man-made petrified wood is being produced (though only as construction material thus far). As technology progresses, some of the treatments, synthetics and other manipulations have become more difficult to detect (and impossible for the average consumer). Some 70 years ago when buyers couldn't tell the difference between an expensive natural blue topaz and the artificially irradiated blues, the prices for even the rare natural blue topaz experienced a huge drop to near the same level (i.e., dirt cheap) as the artificially colored stones. That could happen for other materials, too, and I find it discouraging that virtually no one is doing anything to stop the frauds—and in certain quarters, fraudulent representations are being abetted. For true enthusiasts, the attraction of gemrocks is that they are something nature produced. That is ruined by treatments and synthetics, which in the past have driven down the values of natural gemstones. For others, it doesn't matter—I've seen people wax rhapsodic over dyed pieces of gray chalk and limestone, manmade (and/or largely manmade) crystals, garish coated stones and glass being churned out of factories by the barrelful, and I wonder what they can possibly value in such junk? Perhaps another indication that our throw-away culture is continuing along its wasteful path. Scarcity has been buffered by dealers and collectors who have stockpiled, and we have them to thank that many completely exhausted materials are still on the market at reasonable prices. That long-haul view has been a good thing so far, though it must take patience to wait until the barrel is almost dry before the real return on the investment is made. For other gem materials (diamonds, sapphire, and other gems that form farther below the surface), there will continue to be finds so long as it is economical to get to them, though even for those, synthetics and treated versions continue to be developed and sold. So far, there has always been a market for good quality all-natural material. Probably will continue to be. Quality stuff should always command a premium…I hope.
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 22, 2015 15:11:03 GMT -5
Sonora Dendritic Rhyolite is one I think we could be spending a lot more for in the future. I want to get a few slabs of that.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 22, 2015 20:30:56 GMT -5
Wow! I've been collecting most my life and have never seen "quality" material get cheaper. I've seen number 2 or 3 quality stuff come on the market cheaper or the same price and junk from the tailings pile ( ala a lot of the Mexican crazy lace now days) come to the market at low prices.
I remember the first time I saw Ocean Jasper at Quartzite. It was freaking awesome quality and about $15 per pound. The stuff I see now days is maybe in the same price range but way lower quality. If I ever see a hunk or slab of the old high quality stuff it costs like gold. Kabamba, same thing. Old stuff was full of pinks and greens and golds and solid. New stuff is way lower quality, yet not all that much cheaper, if at all.
High quality will most likely always increase in price. Of course, I remember when super crazy lace was 50 cents per pound and a rock yard in New Mexico had all kinds of outrageous Mexican banded agate for like $2 per pound. Aye God I'm freakng old!!!!!...Mel
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Post by Bluesky78987 on Jun 22, 2015 20:46:27 GMT -5
Haha Mel, was that back when you could get a coffee for a nickel? (ducks)! jk.
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peachfront
fully equipped rock polisher
Stones have begun to speak, because an ear is there to hear them.
Member since August 2010
Posts: 1,745
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Post by peachfront on Jun 22, 2015 20:50:42 GMT -5
As technology progresses, some of the treatments, synthetics and other manipulations have become more difficult to detect (and impossible for the average consumer). Some 70 years ago when buyers couldn't tell the difference between an expensive natural blue topaz and the artificially irradiated blues, the prices for even the rare natural blue topaz experienced a huge drop to near the same level (i.e., dirt cheap) as the artificially colored stones. That could happen for other materials, too, and I find it discouraging that virtually no one is doing anything to stop the frauds—and in certain quarters, fraudulent representations are being abetted. For true enthusiasts, the attraction of gemrocks is that they are something nature produced. That is ruined by treatments and synthetics, which in the past have driven down the values of natural gemstones. This issue is one reason why I no longer pay a premium for anything. For me it started with Amber and Turquoise but the fakes are everywhere. Ugly garishly dyed Agate, for instance, is more highly prized now by a lot of metaphysical workers than the real honest-to-God agate, and I just don't see why. Yes, it's cheap to work with, and meditation etc. should not be about money...but where is the sense of wonder in a dyed or reconstituted stone? It's particularly discouraging that even inexpensive stones (like marble) are largely cultured. I don't know where it will end. Oh, and the tacky garish coatings on crystals and crystal clusters. I know people have a right to do what they want but it's sad that so many vendors are selling and promoting "stuff" that kills the hobby in the long run because it doesn't speak to what's genuine and exciting about natural stones. These days I'm very, very, VERY reluctant to buy these days and I'm real picky about who I buy from. It's sad. The open spirit and the sense of wonder are not the same sometimes. Which leads me to a thought I had this morning -- yes, we can all point to some vendor selling blue lace agate for $10 a pound or whatever but that doesn't mean a hobbyist will be able to sell at that price. If you're stockpiling for resale think first about how you are going to be able to reach buyers. If you're trying to resell online, just forget all the material that's a PITA in the ass to photograph. The bloodstone (the green & red never come out right without struggle), the rainbow obsidians and labradorite that are nightmare to orient, etc. The time it takes to get a proper photograph that will sell your material absolutely destroys any profit you make. Now if you're a full time rock seller, have a show circuit, have a shop, etc. the rules are probably different. But for a hobbyist...first of all...people know if you're a pro or a hobbyist and there's the tendency for certain people (especially older people who don't understand that we live in 2015 and not in 1915) to feel that it's open season on stealing or underpaying for material. You will get robbed at least once by somebody you thought was a friend. You will likely move at least once and have the cost of transport. You will likely have at least one financial emergency that forces you to sell something quickly for less than you paid. So there's a lot of things to think about besides just material cost x in 2015 and is projected to cost y in 2035. Yes, I did a "buy and hold" on a lot of material. Yes, I'm glad to have some good material close at hand to inspire me. But was it a good decision financially, even considering that somebody who owns a professional shop can sell these materials at 5x what I paid? No. I can't sell it for 5x what I paid and that's what matters if you're making an economic decision.
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