Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Jan 3, 2016 23:38:40 GMT -5
Well, I'm getting sucked in deeper and deeper to this rock thing...it's all ya'll's fault!!!!!! I'd been trying to figure out what to do with the rocks I'm hauling home and tumbling so here I am... I had just written a *very* long post about this, but then figured it was way too long for a first post in the thread...maybe I'll post it after the initial "howdy do" post. A few weeks ago I had a momentary lapse in sanity and bought a little UL-6X. It arrived dirty, oily, really depressing-looking. I hollered at Rob/ Jugglerguy thinking he owned one of these but as it turned out it was Chuck/ Drummond Island Rocks that owned one. They walked me through some issues that I thought I had and got me over my early "buyer's remorse". Chuck also helped me with a blade alignment issue that once handled definitely helped my spirits! Thanks guys!!!! I've got some more cleaning and work to do on it and more questions to come but at the moment I would like to figure out a setup for my grinding and sanding wheels and the polishing disk. My thought at first was to use the combo to shape and sand cabs and then polish them in the Loto. I think, though, that I'd like to try cabbing from rough grind to polish on the combo unit and see how it goes. I know it's not the optimum setup, but I'm doing it for the fun of it...if it doesn't work out I'll go the Loto route. I'm getting a blade from John at JS Gems so cutting is covered. The grinding, sanding, and polishing is yet to be covered... My thoughts are to go with a diamond grinding wheel. I saw where herchenx used a 120-grit rather than an 80-grit on his combo unit and that it worked well for him. I'm thinking along those lines but I'm having trouble finding a 120-grit diamond wheel so may have to go with the 80-grit. I've been looking at the DP Galaxy wheels, but they are pricey and would be willing to look at lower priced ones if they are good quality. Any recommendations on a diamond wheel is appreciated! I'd like to get an expanding (expando?) sanding drum. I can't afford diamond belts in multiple grits and I see many people use and speak well of SiC so for now I'll go the SiC route. I've seen several folks recommend to go with a narrower 1-1/2" sanding drum to make belt changes easier. Looking on the Kingsley website they have 2-1/2" belts going up to 800 and 1000 grit, but in 1-1/2" size only going up to 600 grit. I see people talk about going from "worn" 600-grit belts to polish stage with good results but then others talking that you've gotta finish up with finer diamond grit belts to get a good polish. Yeah, I'm confused. From what I've read, right now, I would go with something like this: 80 (or 120 if I could find it) grit diamond grinding wheel 220/320/400/600 SiC belts...if I go with 1-1/2" sanding wheel 220/320/400/600/800/1000 SiC belts...if I go with 2-1/2" sanding wheel The polishing pad on the end...well, I'm thinking of a couple of leather pads...not really sure though...I've read of canvas, felt, etc.,. And, I'm not really sure on which polish or grits. I'm stumbling along here trying to figure this out and have read a pile of threads (maybe too many). I can swing the cost of a diamond grinding wheel but for now I need to go with the less expensive SiC belts. Any thoughts or setup suggestions are very welcome... I failed to get a photo of the combo unit when I first opened the box, but rather I zoomed in on some areas of concern. Here's a couple of shots of the unit....more pictures in the Flickr album, if your interested... IMG_5432 (Custom) by Intheswamp, on Flickr IMG_5466 (Custom) by Intheswamp, on Flickr
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Intheswamp
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Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Jan 3, 2016 23:50:43 GMT -5
Here is the original post where I got long-winded.<grin> A little more information in it but it wasn't finished... ================================================================================== Ok, well, I might as well 'fess up to it. I got another project going. I bought a used Lortone UL-6X combo unit a few weeks ago. I got interested in tumbling and then I got to wondering what I was going to do with the rocks, then cabbing reared it's head up at me, and, and,....well, I bought the machine. It wasn't in the greatest shape, but turned out better than I thought it would. I've got some work to do on it. Gotta basically replace the blade and all the wheels (I think). When it arrived it was a poor sight. Regrettably, I did not get a picture of the entire machine when I opened the beat-up shipping box. I really thought I had made a big mistake. Oil completely covered it, the packing material, everything. For some reason there were pieces of plexiglass with the blue protective film on them in the saw sump and stuck down between the sump and the pulley compartment...this really got me worried. The SiC grinding wheel appeared to have oil on part of it (still does to a degree, but the "wet" stain has lightened up a bit), the sanding drum is bare, and the polishing pad on the end is, well, who knows what types of grit might be there on that oily looking rag. The blade looks worn out to me and it was way off center of the slot in the table leaving a big gap on the "cut off" side (This has been corrected). The previous owner had a basic gravity water supply set up with pet cocks installed in the lid. There's a light-duty lamp cord on the motor (to be replaced). The motor appears to be a third-party one. The power/speed switch has been run out the front of the machine with the wiring passing through the pulley compartment and resting on top of the arbor...I like the positioning of the switch but the wire has got to be secured to not rub on the arbor! There's another hole that was drilled in the same area...I think the previous owner saw that the hole routed the switch wiring too directly over the top of the pulley and so abandoned it. The lid is missing the thumbscrew. The UL-6X has some rust, mostly in the wheel well, but overall is in pretty good shape. A few rusty scrape marks on the saw table and some surface rust and missing paint in the sump. I was considering repainting the entire machine but have about decided to only paint the saw sump and wheel well. Problem is getting a matching paint. The closest match in a hammered finish is Rustoleum "Verde Green"... it appears, though, that you have to buy this particular color in a six-pack carton. I may have to settle for a silver/gray hammered finish in these areas...might brighten the area up a bit, anyhow! Anyhow, I contacted Lortone about the machine and they said it appears to be an early to mid-'70s machine...so 45+ years old. Not in terribly bad shape for being that old. Anyhow, I'm going to remove the arbor and the motor and wash it up really good and then ponder over the paint situation. While I've got it taken apart I'm going to replace the rubber "seals" on the arbor. The bearings seem fine as the motor starts right up and the current setup, even with the SiC wheel with oil(?) on it, runs very smooth. (Btw, I stood out of the way of that grinding wheel when it was spinning!). I've only wiped it down with shop towels and scraped the wheel well with a putty knife...but that made a big difference in it's appearance! Once it's stripped down I intend to wash it good and assess the paint situation closer. I'm not so much concerned with looks as I am with functionality and durability so will probably only paint the previously mentioned areas (sump and well). I thought that Rob/ Jugglerguy had one of these machines and pm'd him a question about it. As it turned out it was Chuck/ Drummond Island Rocks that had one. Between the both of them they helped me get over my early worries and buyer's remorse....thanks guys!!!! The pieces of plexiglass are still a mystery, though!!! So, here I sit with a machine that I don't know how to use but that I know what it's used for. Also, a machine that I don't know how to rig out with abrasives. I'm getting a diamond blade from John at JS Gems www.jsgemslapidary.com so that is handled, more or less. I've still got to figure out what to do about the grinding wheel, the sanding wheel, and the polishing disk. Currently in my mind I'm looking at going with a diamond wheel and an expanding drum for the sanding wheel. What I have found is that diamonds might be a girl's best friend but they're expensive in abrasive wheels, too!!! I was thinking of a DP Galaxy 80-grit but then read where herchenx used a 120-grit and it worked well for him. Looking at the offering I don't see any Galaxy 120-grit wheels...basically they jump from 80 to 220 grit. Maybe I could go with something other than DP Galaxy?...any good brands at lower costs?...that maybe have a 120-grit? Any suggestions on the grinding will is very much appreciated as this will be a major part. =================================================== ...and folks, that where I decided the intro post had gotten too long.
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Intheswamp
Cave Dweller
Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Jan 3, 2016 23:51:25 GMT -5
Oh well, in looking back both of those messages are about the same length...<GRIN>
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 0:15:34 GMT -5
Intheswamp a couple things. I never got SiC belts to work well. I gave up on my expando and while I have a Genie cabber now I still use the combo unit for 2 things: trimming cab preforms from slabs and grinding either rough cabs or any nice tumbling rocks for the vibe. I don't remember which seller specifically I got my 120 from but I'd bet an 80 would work just fine if you were going into the vibe. If you are going to SiC from diamond I'd hold out to find the 120, but like I said I wad never happy with SiC belts. I do recall the 120 being very hard to find, unfortunately. If you wanted to save some $ you could see if anyone here had a used 120 they would sell cheap and dig around a little for the thread on resurfacing diamond wheels. I've never done it personally, but if I needed it seems like a fairly reliable way to get some added runway for older wheels... Glad you're getting all in! Best of luck, post more pics (we all love those) and keep asking questions.
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Intheswamp
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Member since September 2015
Posts: 1,910
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Post by Intheswamp on Jan 4, 2016 8:45:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the feedback, John. <sigh>Well, I can't afford diamond beyond the grinding wheel so I'll either have to work through the SiC setup or simply do a cut, grind, and Loto production. I'll have to give SiC a shot, though, just to experience the workflow. Your mention of using the unit for grinding tumbling rocks is something I hadn't really thought about...great use! I found a 120-grit wheel listed at The Rock Shed, so there's an option hopefully. Not sure of arbor size or if it comes with bushings...I've emailed Shawn about it. It's stated as being an Inland brand. Prices on the Inlands seem to be in line with the lowest prices I've found on Diamond Pacific Galaxy wheels. I've heard a lot about DP Galaxy wheels, but not so much about the Inland ones though I understand Inland builds good stuff. Now to tear it down, order a few small parts from Lortone, find a place to set it up, and figure this grinding/sanding/polishing thing out. Hopefully things will work out...hoping for the best!!!!
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NDK
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Post by NDK on Jan 4, 2016 11:38:02 GMT -5
Instead of 80 I start with 100 grit diamond on both my flat lap and my cabbing machine.
I got my diamond wheels from Kingsley. Seem to be good quality, but I have no other experience with other brands to comapre them to.
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 13:18:21 GMT -5
If you can get harder stuff that is solid and fairly uniform, "vibra cabs" aren't a bad thing in m opinion. You get all sides polished "for free" - when on my wheels I can't get the back polished (need a flat lap or to start double-doming my cabs to do that otherwise)
Grinding-wise, if you find it cathartic then you can cut and grind a bunch of agate nodules and put them right in the vibe to finish - I love doing this with Bahia Agates. You can pre-grind stones in general though and go straight into the vibe and have more shape options than when you use a rotary tumbler - more angles and not all rounded like a rotary will do.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 4, 2016 13:44:22 GMT -5
This is copy pasted from my last PM to you on the subject. Pretty much agreeing with what John had to say.
"What you said will work fine. An 80 or 100 grit galaxy wheel then the rest being done with belts. I think if it were me in that situation I might go with the 100 grit galaxy. Getting 80 grit scratches out with SC belts would be pretty difficult. I realize SC belts seem like the inexpensive route but I can guarantee that after eating through a full set of belts after only making 3 or 4 agates cabs you will see the cost savings of good diamond wheels. Give it a whirl and if that's what it takes to get you making cabs then all is good."
Chuck
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 4, 2016 13:48:27 GMT -5
BTW - Rockshed sells 6" x 1.5" 120 grit diamond wheels stock (Item# 426120) I personally would not go less then 100 for my main wheel but thats just one opinion in a sea of opinions. www.therockshed.com/equipment7.htmlChuck
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 4, 2016 13:50:41 GMT -5
Also copied form PM but kind of belongs here now
"Keep in mind that tumbling cabs only works for very solid agates and jaspers. Any material that has more than one mineral in the make up will undercut and lose shape during the tumbling process. If I were setting up the LU6X just for tumble cabs it would have a galaxy 80, galaxy 220 and then a nova soft 280 disc on the end."
Chuck
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 13:58:45 GMT -5
I would add to Chuck's last comment that - at least with 120 - the vibe easily gets all the scratches out, but I do put the cabs though 120/220 SiC / 500 SiC and then AO polish like I do my normal tumbles, so I don't have the extra wheel and disc when I vibra-cab, I just vibe them with everything else.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 4, 2016 14:18:43 GMT -5
I would add to Chuck's last comment that - at least with 120 - the vibe easily gets all the scratches out, but I do put the cabs though 120/220 SiC / 500 SiC and then AO polish like I do my normal tumbles, so I don't have the extra wheel and disc when I vibra-cab, I just vibe them with everything else. I guess it depends on what your end goal is. In my experience when running even hard agate cabs through 120/220 in the loto the girdle edge gets very rounded over. I like clean sharp girdle lines for my wire wraps so when I used that method I would have to go back and fix the edges on the cabs by going through every stage on the genie. going with the galaxy 80 or 100, galaxy 220 and then a nova soft 280 setup would serve two purposes. First is that you get to start the cabs in the loto in 500 grit which should all but eliminate the rounded girdle. Second and most important is that it will give the user great experience in cabbing for when they can get into a six wheel setup. Cabs usually look pretty good after a 280 nova. These all just my thoughts of what might be a good setup for that purpose. My LU6X is setup with a 6" mk301 blade, 80 grit galaxy, and 100 grit galaxy. It makes a great preform station and allowed me to add an extra wheel to the genie (14,000) Botswana agate cab vibe tumbled 120/220 through polish Same cab after I fixed the edge/girdle on the genie. The end goal for me is that you should not be able to tell the cab was tumbled. Chuck
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 14:43:26 GMT -5
Good points Chuck, have you seen how much rounding would happen in the vibe starting at 500? Just curious. I think if up front $ is a concern, and you already have a vibe, you could start with one wheel and add more as you have more $. I'm curious to see what you end up doing Intheswamp!
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jan 4, 2016 14:51:16 GMT -5
Good points Chuck, have you seen how much rounding would happen in the vibe starting at 500? Just curious. I think if up front $ is a concern, and you already have a vibe, you could start with one wheel and add more as you have more $. I'm curious to see what you end up doing Intheswamp! I have not tried it myself. To be honest I only tumble the pesky solid agates and jaspers like montanas, botswana, picture jaspers etc... Those seem to be a pain to get perfect on the wheels without any scrathces so I just hit them with with galaxy 80 or 100 then galaxy 220 and toss them in the 120/220 vibe. I have the equipment to fix the edges and it only takes a couple minutes per cab. All of this is really personal preference stuff. I don't think most folks would even bother cleaning the edges but with my groove wraps there are no wires masking that edge so I like the professional look of a sharp line there. Chuck
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Post by johnjsgems on Jan 4, 2016 15:32:08 GMT -5
I don't think the LU6X has room for three wheels. Changing the 2.5" drum to 1.5" gives a little more room but originally they had a 1" SC wheel and the 2.5" ExactSpan. The pan lip on right interferes with belt changes with the 2.5" drum almost against the edge. 100 grit wheels work fine and leave less deep scratches to remove with belts. 1.5" diamond belts cost quite a bit less than 2.5" also. Diamond will last many times longer than SC belts. Costs have to be compared to life expectancy too. I briefly sold Chinese grinding wheels but all my pro cutters said they lasted 2-3 months and 2-3 times faster than Galaxy. Which costs less depends on how much you use them. Then there are sintered wheels that last many years.
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 15:36:21 GMT -5
The pan lip on right interferes with belt changes with the 2.5" drum almost against the edge. Ah yes, I'd forgotten about this, what a pain! Do you sell the sintered wheels?
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Intheswamp
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Post by Intheswamp on Jan 4, 2016 23:31:44 GMT -5
Wow!!!! Lot's of feedback to digest!!! Thanks!!!!!!! I'm really walking in a fog here trying to figure out which direction to go. Ya'll are nicely pushing me back towards what I see John referring to as "vibra-cabbing". But, who knows...I may flip-flop and start looking back at belts again. Lot's to think about. Ok, for now I'm contemplating buying two diamond wheels...if I do that then I'm looking at a 100-grit and a 220-grit...does that sound about right? The Galaxys would be a bit pricey while the Kingsley North ones might dip down into the realm of possibility easier. But, are the Galaxys worth the extra cost?...lots of people buy/use them...?? I'm still at a loss as to what to do with the wheel on the end, though. I've thought about a couple of pads to try hand-polishing beyond the Loto polish...does that make sense? I'm not sure about what polish I would use for this. Nate, thanks for mentioning Kingsley. I went back and looked and a 100/220 pair of diamond wheels might be in the budget. That was a very helpful post that got me to go back and look at what they had. How long have you had your wheels? John/ herchenx, you said "If you can get harder stuff that is solid and fairly uniform, "vibra cabs" aren't a bad thing in m opinion." This got me to thinking about the fractured quartz/quartzite that I've been picking up. I think I need to follow jamesp in looking for the cobbles and the more solid rock inside rather than the exposed pieces that I've been picking up. Quality-control check! John/ johnjsgems, if I opt to go back to belts you've given me more pause to consider diamond. Well, I'll give another clue to my intentions...this may make you all groan in dismay with me. I want to do regular round oval domed cabs to begin with to get a grip on sawing, dopping, grinding, etc.,. My ultimate goal, though, is to make crosses. Maybe I'm crazy as it looks very difficult but that is what I hope to ultimately learn to do and maybe get good at. My goal may change in the future, but for now...cabbing crosses is it. Lots of good info to digest....thanks!!! Keep it coming...
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 23:43:28 GMT -5
I've only ever had the galaxy wheels, no complaints but also no comparison info except to say they beat the heck out of SiC!
Definitely think and rethink until you feel like you have a plan, measure twice and all that. I asked several years of questions until I got my big saw, which I felt ready to buy when the right opportunity came along.
Don't push yourself into spending a bunch of money either. Sure as you do, something will break or something might come up in your life you didn't expect. The rocks will still be there. If needed, cheaper, simpler ways of rocking can help pass the time.
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 23:47:19 GMT -5
If you want to make crosses, just get one coarse diamond wheel and be done, unless you are after super crisp edges (which will round off as Chuck pointed out previously ) - no need to get into perfect doming unless there is a cross style that requires that.
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herchenx
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Post by herchenx on Jan 4, 2016 23:50:02 GMT -5
Heck if you are thinking blocky crosses don't even get a wheel, just saw the shape and use a tile saw with a cheap diamond blade to preform then vibe them.
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