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Post by 1dave on Feb 28, 2016 10:18:54 GMT -5
@shotgunner is this right?
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 12:36:22 GMT -5
Incomplete, but as it stands, yes.
It will work in the USA, only.
There are non pit vipers and well as coral snakes and cobras worldwide. Then we could get into back fanged and don't get me started on Australia.
It will work in the USA.
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Post by radio on Feb 28, 2016 13:23:14 GMT -5
Incomplete, but as it stands, yes. It will work in the USA, only. There are non pit vipers and well as coral snakes and cobras worldwide. Then we could get into back fanged and don't get me started on Australia. It will work in the USA. I figured sure you would go off on the "Poisonous" Vs venomous thing
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Post by Pat on Feb 28, 2016 14:53:11 GMT -5
If I am out in the wilds, I don't want to get close enough to check out those identifying details --- assuming I remember them. I just leave them all alone and hope they leave me alone as well. Not afraid of snakes, but don't want to get bit either.
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 16:44:26 GMT -5
Incomplete, but as it stands, yes. It will work in the USA, only. There are non pit vipers and well as coral snakes and cobras worldwide. Then we could get into back fanged and don't get me started on Australia. It will work in the USA. Ā I figured sure you would go off on the "Poisonous"Ā Vs venomous thing Lol I used to. Now I'm just too old to swim upstream. Made 2 dives today. Second was on a rock pile where there was wave surge. Learned to follow the power of the Pacific ocean.
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Post by radio on Feb 28, 2016 16:53:39 GMT -5
I figured sure you would go off on the "Poisonous" Vs venomous thing Lol I used to. Now I'm just too old to swim upstream. Made 2 dives today. Second was on a rock pile where there was wave surge. Learned to follow the power of the Pacific ocean. Abalone? Crab? Pleasure dive? Been any big Whites spotted there lately?
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Fossilman
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Post by Fossilman on Feb 28, 2016 16:55:30 GMT -5
Lots of rattlers were I hunt fossils (in Montana)..I usually walk one way,they slither the other way! Lucky so far- always look before you reach! Seen hundreds,only had to kill three,no choice,so that's good odds..
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Post by radio on Feb 28, 2016 16:59:58 GMT -5
@shotgunner is this right? LOL. Snakes aren't "Poisonous" even though many folks incorrectly use that term. The correct description would be Venomous.
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Sabre52
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Post by Sabre52 on Feb 28, 2016 18:38:59 GMT -5
Remember we do have coral snakes in the US too. As Scott has stated, your pic don't work for them. Also, as Scott has implied, modern research has shown a few of the supposedly non venomous snakes actually have mildly toxic saliva but not real fangs for delivery of the toxin so they have to chew on you awhile and the effects are minimal if any. Hognosed snakes come to mind and they do not fit your pic ( which only applies to pit vipers) either. I'd still consider them non venomous as they do not bite much and if they do, they do not generally hold on and chew.....Mel
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 19:44:36 GMT -5
Remember we do have coral snakes in the US too. As Scott has stated, your pic don't work for them. Also, as Scott has implied, modern research has shown a few of the supposedly non venomous snakes actually have mildly toxic saliva but not real fangs for delivery of the toxin so they have to chew on you awhile and the effects are minimal if any. Hognosed snakes come to mind and they do not fit your pic ( which only applies to pit vipers) either. I'd still consider them non venomous as they do not bite much and if they do, they do not generally hold on and chew.....Mel Hognose have significant fangs. They are the genus i was referring too. I am aware of two medically serious bites. One nearly lost a foot. If anybody cares, google " heterodon envenomation". Brian Grieg Fry has found venomous protein components in many if not most snakes and lizards. Rather than being dangerous, my gut says it helps them digest the food they eat. radio yes, poisons are ingested and venom is injected. For evryone else, If you eat a cobra it tastes good but is not poisonous. But if it bites you it is venomous....
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Post by Deleted on Feb 28, 2016 19:46:17 GMT -5
Lol I used to. Now I'm just too old to swim upstream. Made 2 dives today. Second was on a rock pile where there was wave surge. Learned to follow the power of the Pacific ocean. Abalone? Crab? Pleasure dive? Been any big Whites spotted there lately? I am in Costa Rica. Im am getting scuba certified. It has been a 12 year journey. Tomorrow, I am certified, and the journey starts over...
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Post by 1dave on Feb 29, 2016 8:54:05 GMT -5
What I was most curious about was the single and double ribs. How does that fit into the DNA?
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chassroc
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Post by chassroc on Feb 29, 2016 14:58:59 GMT -5
Just to make thing fairer for venomous snakes, we are introducing Timber rattllesnakes into the wild here in Mass.
They are a native specious that have suffered decline in numbers over the years ( Gee, I wonder why everyone doesn't love a snake?)
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Post by rockjunquie on Feb 29, 2016 15:37:02 GMT -5
Just to make thing fairer for venomous snakes, we are introducing Timber rattllesnakes into the wild here in Mass. They are a native specious that have suffered decline in numbers over the years ( Gee, I wonder why everyone doesn't love a snake?) I read about that.... they are putting them on an island very close to human populations and recreational areas ... a short swim away and they do swim. Nothing could go wrong there. I would definitely be concerned. According to the article, many people were initially concerned but now aren't.
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Post by 1dave on Feb 29, 2016 16:45:36 GMT -5
Re-introduce smallpox etc. Anything to save the planet from humans!
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 10:38:59 GMT -5
Just to make thing fairer for venomous snakes, we are introducing Timber rattllesnakes into the wild here in Mass. They are a native specious that have suffered decline in numbers over the years ( Gee, I wonder why everyone doesn't love a snake?) I read about that.... they are putting them on an island very close to human populations and recreational areas ... a short swim away and they do swim. Nothing could go wrong there. I would definitely be concerned. According to the article, many people were initially concerned but now aren't. Let me put your thoughts in a different perspective. I live in a warm climate where rattlesnakes can find enough resources to reproduce every year. There are thousands (or tens of thousands) of hiking, biking, recreational trails within a hundred miles of me. The rattlesnakes snakes are very common and the humans using those trails are even more common. We get less than a score of people bitten a year. Now, to take that to massachusetts. Cold climate, only allows for females to reproduce every 2-3 years. Sometimes less often. Timbers are highly migratory and territorial. They find a place to overwinter and are faithful to it. In the spring they will spread out to their chosen territory and back again in the fall. Yes, they swim, but dispersal is mostly babies and males seeking mates. Babies could not swim far enough to make land, so only occasionally males will do so. A rare situation for that one snake to then also be a problem. Tela arent you in virginia? Probably more timber rattlers in virginia than humans. Are you experiencing actual (not perceived) problems? Massachusetts has no problems with rattlesnakes, except they disappeared. My thoughts are this introduction wont work. Must start with babies. Disturbing adults and moving them to unknown areas, is a recipe for failure. To make it work, they would need a lots (100 is a good start) of babies to release, every year, for ten years. After 3-5 years they may find specimens large enough to radio tag and track. This will then teach them if the new population can be self sustaining. This is a 30 year project.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 10:43:56 GMT -5
Remember we do have coral snakes in the US too. As Scott has stated, your pic don't work for them. Also, as Scott has implied, modern research has shown a few of the supposedly non venomous snakes actually have mildly toxic saliva but not real fangs for delivery of the toxin so they have to chew on you awhile and the effects are minimal if any. Hognosed snakes come to mind and they do not fit your pic ( which only applies to pit vipers) either. I'd still consider them non venomous as they do not bite much and if they do, they do not generally hold on and chew.....Mel I ignored coral snakes as insignificant. In aridzona they're so secretive the experts are happy to see one a year. In texas and florida the corals are somwary, they disappear before seen by the human, mostly. Even when seen the colors warn the human to stay hands off. So the drawing from Dave is not entirely correct, it will suffice in the usa, for animals that can actually pose a threat. Rattlesnakes, copperheads and moccasins. Thanks mel your thoughts are always enjoyed by me.
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 10:46:50 GMT -5
What I was most curious about was the single and double ribs. How does that fit into the DNA? Double ribs? Did you mean scales under the tail? Its probably evolutionary. When snakes started mutating into venomous families, that double scale under the tail probably came aling for the ride. Just an opinion from a well studied amateur. Sabre52 may add more. He actually went to real school!
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Post by 1dave on Mar 1, 2016 11:41:58 GMT -5
Yes, not into the LINGO, I was trying to say "scales."
I don't understand such a fine line in evolution. Double row = non venomous, single row = venomous? Every time?
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Post by Deleted on Mar 1, 2016 14:18:31 GMT -5
Yes, not into the LINGO, I was trying to say "scales." I don't understand such a fine line in evolution. Double row = non venomous, single row = venomous? Every time? Every time, in the species in North America that that drawing works for! Truthfully, nobody checks the underside of a tail. Dead snake in hand for neophyte, using dichotomous key, yes they look. Other than that, I can't answer your question without sincere research. And I am still in Costa Rica living the 'Pura Vida'. Traveling maƱana.
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