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Post by radio on May 30, 2016 9:31:33 GMT -5
Lately I'm seeing lots of freeform cabs on auction sites that look gorgeous, but are impractical for bezel setting. The ovals, rectangles and such have pretty uniform girdles, but nearly all the cabs I see with pointed ends are cut way to thin at those points. Having a pointy end that dips well below the girdle of the rest of the stone is a royal PITA to bezel set and usually will break unless it is very hard material and/or the utmost caution is taken. Silver bezel is difficult enough to work around sharp points and the lower girdle means more of it will be folded over the point of the stone causing it to look amateurish even if set by a pro. I have set many such stones and usually rework the cab and/or even back it with devcon so I can get an even girdle all the way around the stone. Even on calibrated cabs, don't take the ends or points below the girdle on the rest of the stone. The bezel should fold over the stone evenly all the way around the stone and not have more silver visible at corners or points. Turquoise is sometimes the exception and can benefit from the natural nugget look Just some food for thought when cutting freeform cabs.
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Post by Pat on May 30, 2016 9:45:51 GMT -5
Good point!
When I come to a point, I cut a U shape so there is no fold over or empty area, just a lower bezel at that point.
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Post by orrum on May 30, 2016 11:42:53 GMT -5
I don't like bezels. I like prongs that are not prongs. I take odd shaped pieces of silver sheet that I have cut off when sawing out a silver back and pound, scratch, wrinkle etc then grind it to a shape I like and pic solder it to my back. Usually 4 or more pieces, the I push them over the cab. I use plastic cut from butter tubs etc to put behind the cab, this cuts down on breakage by cushioning the cab both when mounting plus it raises the cab up if you are using a bezel, and also as temperature changes cause the cab to expand and contract. The clearer the lid the thinner it will usually be. Sometimes I use scrap pieces of bezel, like a cup over a certain part of the cab. My smithing is rustic! LOL.
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Post by orrum on May 30, 2016 11:52:45 GMT -5
I don't like bezels. I like prongs that are not prongs. I take odd shaped pieces of silver sheet that I have cut off when sawing out a silver back and pound, scratch, wrinkle etc then grind it to a shape I like and pic solder it to my back. Usually 4 or more pieces, the I push them over the cab. I use plastic cut from butter tubs etc to put behind the cab, this cuts down on breakage by cushioning the cab both when mounting plus it raises the cab up if you are using a bezel, and also as temperature changes cause the cab to expand and contract. The clearer the lid the thinner it will usually be. Sometimes I use scrap pieces of bezel, like a cup over a certain part of the cab. My smithing is rustic! LOL.
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,808
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Post by gemfeller on May 30, 2016 12:33:46 GMT -5
Orrum, one picture is worth lots and lots of words, even a double-post After your description I still can't picture what you mean when you say "prongs that are not prongs."
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Post by rockjunquie on May 30, 2016 13:22:00 GMT -5
orrum- you know the rule.... without a picture, it didn't happen. I'm dieing to see your creations!!!! I'm gonna pm you my email and I'll host and post for you.
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Post by orrum on May 30, 2016 15:51:34 GMT -5
Thanks Tela!!! Gemfeller a older Apache silversmith named John showed me some of this style. It's sorta a Indian thing. Ever notice how their jelery sometimes has a rougher look? I don't like having to get that perfect polish on everything, I like the polish the vibe and stainless shot gives not the tedious dremel work!
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 3,808
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Post by gemfeller on May 30, 2016 16:43:51 GMT -5
The old Indian silversmithing methods really interest me Orrum. Back in my college days in Albuquerque I got drunk one night and gambled away the money for my semester's meal ticket. So I got a job waiting tables at a great restaurant on the Old Town Plaza and ate like a king, both the local Tex-Mex and the chef's German specialties like hasenpfeffer and sauerbraten that he cooked for himself and staff members like me. But I digress.
As a promotion the restaurant hired a Navajo smith who set up a table near the entrance and made jewelry while the tourists gawked. I was a gawker too and was fascinated by his fairly crude hand-made tools and methods. Having worked a lot of silver since being inspired by him, I'm still gobsmacked by the fact that he used nothing but an old-fashioned gasoline blowtorch for even his most intricate soldering. Necessity is the mother of invention I guess; but I don't think I could ever manage that.
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Post by orrum on May 30, 2016 18:34:34 GMT -5
Hey Tela I sent you some pics. Let me know if you getbthem. I sorta maybe didn't do it right....
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Post by orrum on May 30, 2016 18:37:02 GMT -5
I saw a silversmith in az make a ring with a butane mini torch just to prove you don't need big money tools. It did have a small cab in it so that was easier to get the bezel to bloom to the back!
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Post by radio on May 30, 2016 19:13:20 GMT -5
Thanks Tela!!! Gemfeller a older Apache silversmith named John showed me some of this style. It's sorta a Indian thing. Ever notice how their jelery sometimes has a rougher look? I don't like having to get that perfect polish on everything, I like the polish the vibe and stainless shot gives not the tedious dremel work! Interesting observation. When I first started selling my work, I strived for perfection and was pleased with myself for turning out nearly flawless pieces. My enlightenment came from selling at juried shows where I had a helluva time convincing the jurors that my work was indeed hand made and not bought and resold. I also lost some sales due to the fact that folks didn't believe I made the pieces I had displayed. I still strive for well finished pieces, but if examined closely one can see telltale signs of being hand made. I usually leave the under side of the ring a wee bit rough with a file mark or two, or a spot of solder next to the shank that I don't remove completely. Nothing glaring, but just a hint that it wasn't made by a machine. I'm still picky about my joins and finish on exposed areas of my pieces though.
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Post by orrum on May 30, 2016 19:36:35 GMT -5
Hey Radio I don't mean shoddy work I mean rustic and down.to earth type rough made. Like a whale carved in wood can be perfectly finished or it can have knife marks and shaving grooves that while rough lend a detailed piece of a work 5hat is fsntastic. It's two totally different approaches to the same objective.
LOL Hey if it's perfect it was made by a 8 year old in China or India! LOL
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Post by rockjunquie on May 31, 2016 6:33:59 GMT -5
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Post by Peruano on May 31, 2016 7:31:23 GMT -5
Radio's OP about not thinning out the pointed areas of cabs is a technique issue. It is very easy to rapidly thin those areas relative to the straight or gradually curved perimeters of more typical cabs . . . so you have to be quite deliberate to keep them the same thickness and not inadvertently thin and endanger them. They can break or as pointed out look shoddy even if they don't. I like the non-prongs. Tom
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Post by radio on May 31, 2016 7:44:18 GMT -5
Hey Radio I don't mean shoddy work I mean rustic and down.to earth type rough made. Like a whale carved in wood can be perfectly finished or it can have knife marks and shaving grooves that while rough lend a detailed piece of a work 5hat is fsntastic. It's two totally different approaches to the same objective. LOL Hey if it's perfect it was made by a 8 year old in China or India! LOL Wasn't intending to point fingers at anyone one here, and sorry if it came across that way since joining Facebook a month or so ago I have been exposed to an incredible array of things in the jewelry world, some good, a lot bad and a whole new level of self riotous assholeism on many of the groups. Seems to me that some of the groups are started by those seeking praise and worship of their work and viciously attack anyone who they feel does equal or better work than they do. One group in particular found fault with my using a jewelry piece in my avatar and accused me of having it there to promote myself in "Their group". Thank God the guys and gals on RTH are level headed and accepting of all skill levels without passing judgement!. A good example was a very nice Opal I saw that a person had made a ring with that the bezel looked as though it had been ran over by a truck and she was getting compliments out the wazoo. I did not post about it, but a well known Silversmith and stone cutter mentioned it was a gorgeous stone, but should have been held in reserve until the "Artists" Silver skills improved. I forget the exact wording he used, but it was being as nice as possible while pointing out the mounting was very amateurish and a stunning stone deserved a better setting. The group erupted with flame throwers on maximum setting and called him everything under the sun for his "negativity and harshness"! Welcome to the world of Social media!
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Post by rockjunquie on May 31, 2016 7:57:37 GMT -5
Social media- I see what you did there....
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Post by orrum on May 31, 2016 7:59:13 GMT -5
Hey I agree about points on cabs getting too thin! Me I can make a potato chip out of a odd shaped cab fast! Those areas just go away so easy! Somebody on here posted a group of very pointy cabs with incredible bright colors a while back that were silver smithed and it was sharp, I mean it and the work was really good! I saved the picture so I could show it to the lovely Susan!
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Roger
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since January 2013
Posts: 1,487
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Post by Roger on May 31, 2016 10:39:47 GMT -5
I came close to making an ass of myself over this topic last night. I still have a bit of a problem with it, but I understand where it is coming from better today.
First off, the shape really has no bearing on the bones of the OP. Girdles need to be uniform on all cabs without regard to traditional or non-traditional shapes. A crappy, uneven girdle is a pain to set in any mounting style.
It is true, non-standard shapes are more difficult to cut correctly. Round, oval, and organic free-forms tend to be a little easier to work with. That is why there are so many automated cab machines in use, and so many people who tumble polish cabochons.
Cutting stones with interior curves and points, and getting a consistent girdle is a pain in the butt. It is one reason why I like doing them. They are always challenging, and there is little room for questions whether a non-standard stone was truly hand cut and polished.
I have had a few customers lament the difficulty of trying to set non-traditional shapes into traditional bezel settings. Not all cabs are meant to be bezel set. Most experienced smiths know from looking at the stone shape if it is something that will work with their techniques or skill level.
That said; buying a stone you know you should be able to set and receiving a poorly cut stone that you can't is always very disappointing.
Hopefully you contacted the seller and provided feedback on the difficulty with the uneven girdle. Some, like me, are 100pct self-taught. Never held a cab until i made my first one and still have never seen anyone else make one.
It was the early constructive feedback from customers that helped me improve my finished cabs.
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Post by orrum on May 31, 2016 11:45:27 GMT -5
I aspire to your cabs quality Roger! I am the unchallenged king of flat spots and scratches! LOL I too am self taught and not progressing very fast, that's ok tho cause I am loving this hobby and all the directions it can take a person! I am not a artist but I am a darn good cowboy and ya know what we say...." git er dun pardner". In a horse show ya ride what ya brought n do the best ya can. I git er dun but maybe only my lovely Susan thinks it's beautiful a lot of the time!
That being said remember....Even a blind hawg finds a acorn ever now n then. I found the lovely Susan and she is surely a gem!!!
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Tommy
Administrator
Member since January 2013
Posts: 12,683
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Post by Tommy on May 31, 2016 11:57:15 GMT -5
Yes - what Roger said - I couldn't have said it better. It's a technique issue - and yes it involves planning for a reshape when the girdle on your sharp tip disappears, and it will. This is one of the reasons I don't do sharp tips as a general rule and I have mad respect for cabbers who can do it consistently. This is also a major reason why after the initial dome and shaping I do not fuss with the girdle much until after I have found the grit wheel where the material stops disappearing. I then go back to the 220 hard wheel and form an even height girdle around the whole stone. As long as I haven't left one side too thick I'm good with polishing the girdle all the way back to the wheel I had reached before.
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