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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 18, 2016 8:33:39 GMT -5
I bought a few feet of copper solder wire but I only seen a listing for one type. My question is how to make multiple joints with all one hardness of solder. My first two came out good but it may have been dumb luck. The one I tried last night had the bezel wire open up while mounting the bezel to the back plate. I understand why it happened but wondered if it can be avoided or if I need to switch over to silver solder on the copper for this application so I can use varied hardness solders. I also tried cutting small segments of the copper wire into pallions this time rather then trying to feed the wire into the joint. Any comments about that idea? bezel open at bottom. Thanks Chuck
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Post by Pat on Jul 18, 2016 9:56:17 GMT -5
I had heard that you need to use all three types of solder --- hard, medium, soft --- when soldering. However, I know several accomplished jewelers who use nothing but hard, or nothing but medium on the same piece.
Soooo, I ran a test using copper sheet (about one square inch) and silver solder. First I soldered three samples on the same test sheet using only hard; repeated on separate test sheet using only medium. All worked fine.
There is an explanation for this, and I'll find it and let you know today.
Re your problem above, maybe the bezel joint was not really soldered.
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Don
Cave Dweller
He wants you too, Malachi.
Member since December 2009
Posts: 2,616
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Post by Don on Jul 18, 2016 9:58:24 GMT -5
I just use silver solder when working with copper. There's a school of thought that you can just use hard solder for everything and the key to keeping your other joins from failing when soldering another is good heat/torch control. I've done this in the past with silver pieces, and it does work; I still prefer using hard - soft solders though. Using the various temp solders help avoid problem you're having. hard on the bezel join, medium on the bezel to back plate, easy on the bail.
And if anyone hasn't mentioned it yet, copper is much more difficult to solder than silver, so when you move to silver, you'll have a much easier time of it, just watch out for fire scale/stain.
regarding stick soldering versus pallions, I prefer to pick solder bezel joins, use pallions in making the bezel cup, and stick solder for any quick and dirty solder job where I don't mind using more solder than I need. But it all really boils down to personal preference.
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 18, 2016 10:09:21 GMT -5
I had heard that you need to use all three types of solder --- hard, medium, soft --- when soldering. However, I know several accomplished jewelers who use nothing but hard, or nothing but medium on the same piece. Soooo, I ran a test using copper sheet (about one square inch) and silver solder. First I soldered three samples on the same test sheet using only hard; repeated on separate test sheet using only medium. All worked fine. There is an explanation for this, and I'll find it and let you know today. Re your problem above, maybe the bezel joint was not really soldered. Thanks Pat I am pretty sure the bezel wire had a good solder join because I was able to file and sand the joint with no issues before trying to mount it to the back plate. My theory is that I should have heated the back plate up more then the bezel wire. The bezel wire being so thin took the heat quicker then the plate. I will try again tonight one more time before switching to silver solder. Chuck
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Jul 18, 2016 10:13:21 GMT -5
I just use silver solder when working with copper. There's a school of thought that you can just use hard solder for everything and the key to keeping your other joins from failing when soldering another is good heat/torch control. I've done this in the past with silver pieces, and it does work; I still prefer using hard - soft solders though. Using the various temp solders help avoid problem you're having. hard on the bezel join, medium on the bezel to back plate, easy on the bail. And if anyone hasn't mentioned it yet, copper is much more difficult to solder than silver, so when you move to silver, you'll have a much easier time of it, just watch out for fire scale/stain. regarding stick soldering versus pallions, I prefer to pick solder bezel joins, use pallions in making the bezel cup, and stick solder for any quick and dirty solder job where I don't mind using more solder than I need. But it all really boils down to personal preference. Thanks Don- I have done a few bezels in silver now and really like it. Same thing happened when learning to wire wrap. Used copper to learn then when I moved up to silver everything got easier. Chuck
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Post by orrum on Jul 18, 2016 12:09:46 GMT -5
When u r good you use hard. It's closer to 92.5 sterling. The real sticklers use fine silver as solder. That's a beAR cause it's soft. I use medium for everything. The folks at Q taught us to use silver solder for copper. Never use easy it has hardly any silver and tarnishes and turns funky colors. My 2 cents....
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Post by orrum on Jul 18, 2016 12:11:43 GMT -5
X2 Don!!! Your pick solder skillz are very necessary!!!
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Post by radio on Jul 18, 2016 12:26:09 GMT -5
My thought is that you got too much heat on the bezel. Constantly play the flame inside the bezel and allow the copper.base to transfer heat to the bezel instead of hitting it with the flame. After the bezel join is soldered, place the stone in it to act as a backing while you file the join. Next, leave the stone in the bezel and using your fingertips, slide the bezel back and forth over a wide file or Emery cloth to level the bottom so it sets flush with the backing before soldering. Unless i'm working on a large piece with multiple embellishments, I never bother with anything but medium solder. When doing repairs, I never know what solder was used in constructing the piece, so I use easy and rarely have a problem.
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zekesman
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Member since May 2016
Posts: 637
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Post by zekesman on Jul 18, 2016 14:03:12 GMT -5
Or just heat it from underneath, that way the plate takes all the heat until the solder melts. Vic
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metalsmith
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Jul 18, 2016 15:51:59 GMT -5
I just use one hardness of solder. The theory behind it is that the volatiles are driven off.
The reason behind the bezel disjoin is that the bezel was heated and the join ran. In particular, the bezel was heated unevenly so that tension was built up so that when it got the opportunity, it split.
Your copper solder looks like a lake which would be a nightmare for cleaning. So much copper would devalue the silver, especially here in the UK where hallmarking has to be done (by the Govt Assay Office) for weights over 1/4 tr oz. It wouldn't meet the assay.
To get the piece to heat quickly, cut off any excess metal prior to heating. Try fluxing quite generously - just the base of the bezel. Lay your solder around the seam. When it runs, it will follow the seam, neatly or near. Draw the solder around the join using the heat. Solder flows towards heat. Once it has done enough to adhere the bezel where you want it, flip it upside down (after cooling or not) and then heat the base.
HTH
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Post by orrum on Jul 18, 2016 19:30:57 GMT -5
Chuck solder blooms and when you see it bloom get the heat off. Like they said you heat the plate underneath and when the solder bits start to melt bring the heat on top and center the flame blowing toward the outside. You will see the solder bloom.
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