ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Jul 30, 2016 18:02:16 GMT -5
I have had my QT-66 running for a month now. I am using SC60/90 from the Rock Shed. I've been rinsing everything down and starting fresh with 10TB each Saturday. Things are progressing SLOWLY. I guess this will make we work on my patience. I have about 15 rocks that are perfectly smooth with no surface imperfections. I think the people who write the directions for this tumbler are doing newbies a disservice. They make it sound like things will be done in 7-10 days. Anyways, just have some questions.
1. The QT-66 is a double 6lb barrel setup. The barrel empty weighs about 3lbs. When everything is filled up, it weights 7lbs total which means the rock, grit and water come in at 4lbs. Is the 6lb rating including the weight of the barrel? I have the barrel filled up maybe 80%. Filling with water a little below the top layer. Just curious about how the weight is determined.
2. I have been adding new rough stock each week to make up the difference. Does this cause damage to the rocks that are already in there?
3. When I have enough to move to the next step (which feels like it will be January), what ratio of rock to filler should I use? I have a 5lb bag of the small ceramic pellets, also from the Rock Shed. Do I fill the barrel up as full as the rough stage? Or back off a little bit. It seems like I would want it to be full so there isn't so much crashing rock.
Thanks for all the help!
Dave
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Jul 31, 2016 0:12:22 GMT -5
I’m a new tumbler also so my answers probably aren’t the gold standard but this is what I have been doing. My tumbler is rated for only 3lbs but I have been working under the notion that 3lb doesn’t include the weight of the barrel. With that in mind, my current loading method is as follows. I fill the barrel half way with rocks then add grit (2.5tbs) and fill water to the top of the rocks. Then I continue adding rocks until I reach a total of 3lbs in the barrel. This is usually about ¾ or so full which seems to work pretty well.
I sure hope adding new rough stock to make up the difference doesn’t hurt because that is exactly what I have been doing. As far as I can tell it isn’t harmful.
I’m curious to know the answers to #3. I have only done a couple of loads past the coarse stage so far and neither of them went very well.
I suggest not being too aggressive with the loading of the tumbler barrels. I have found that overloading the barrel means that the rocks don’t tumble properly and the process ends up taking a LOT longer. I have found when I have the barrel loaded properly I can rotate it in my hand and I can hear the rocks rolling across one another.
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rollingstone
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since July 2009
Posts: 236
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Post by rollingstone on Jul 31, 2016 1:55:37 GMT -5
1. Well I'm probably not the best person to answer #1, because I use 2 separate QT-6 setups, and the QT-6 uses the same motor as the double-barrel QT-66, so if the motor can support 2 barrels then I figure I can add as much as I want to my single barrel, even for heavy material like garnets.
2. As long as you are adding material of similar hardness to what you already have in there, then fresh material will not damage what is already in the barrel. Any sharp edges on the fresh material will become dull within hours, then you've got the full rest of the week in the barrel. So even if there was any minor scratching in the first few hours, those scratches will be long removed before that week's barrel run is complete.
3. This is where the art/experience comes in. For small, hard material not prone to chipping, you can actually get away with no ceramic or plastic pellet filler, all the way to polish. For chippy material like glass or obsidian, you might want up to 50% filler to prevent chipping. The more filler, the slower the grind and the longer each stage takes. But use too little filler and you will end up with "bruising", or chipping, which is a shame after such patience. Without knowing your specific material or the size of the rocks, in general terms I would opt for maybe a cup (8 fluid ounces) of plastic pellets in each 6 lb barrel. Keep plastic pellets separate for each stage, ie don't use the same pellets you used for fine grind for pre-polish or polish, as it is easy for grit to become embedded in pellets and released later on.... I don't know if this is true for ceramic pellets as I don't use those.
3b. Back off on barrel-filling for finer stages, as very little material will be lost. If you fill a coarse barrel 3/4 full, it will end up 2/3 or 1/2 full of rocks after a week. For all other stages, it will have as much rock after a week as when you started. I like 2/3 full of combined rock and pellets for stages from fine grind to polish... that allows the rocks to slide and tumble over each other, without being so full as to crest the top of the barrel and crash down on the other side.
Don.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Aug 1, 2016 9:19:41 GMT -5
Thanks for the replies. I am using the "Medium Rock Mix" from the Rock Shed that came with my tumbler kit. This mixture consists of Rose Quartz, Green Aventurine, Lace Agate, White Quartz, different types of Jasper, Pudding Stone, Moss Agate, Sodalite, India Tree Agate, Petrified Wood, Turritella Agate, Prairie Agate and others.
I will continue what I've been doing and play around with the ceramics being added into the second stage when I get enough rocks to head there.
Have a great week.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 1, 2016 18:52:52 GMT -5
Dave, listen carefully to Don. As far as I can tell, he's the best rotary tumbler on here by far. I don't rotary tumble the last stages, I use a vibratory tumbler.
I have a couple thInge to add. First, have you removed the fifteen rocks that are finished? If not, take them out, they'll just get smaller if you leave them in.
As for filling the tumbler, I have had my QT66 for about three years, running the whole time. I have never weighed the rocks. I just fill it to about 3/4 with no problems.
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dottyt
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2016
Posts: 305
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Post by dottyt on Aug 1, 2016 20:23:17 GMT -5
Another non-expert here, but your Sodalite is going to get ground up before your other stuff is done unless you carefully check for *all* the pieces you put in ... at least it happened to me....
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richardh
spending too much on rocks
Member since June 2016
Posts: 391
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Post by richardh on Aug 1, 2016 21:38:59 GMT -5
Another non-expert here, but your Sodalite is going to get ground up before your other stuff is done unless you carefully check for *all* the pieces you put in ... at least it happened to me.... Same here. I don’t quite understand why “tumbling mix” includes rocks with such a range of hardness. When I purchased a bag of “tumbling mix” I received something with pieces of quartz along with some jasper and some blue apatite and septarian. The apetite and septarian were ground to powder before I figured out what was going on. I think this sort of product would frequently be purchased by nubies who are just going to throw everything in the tumbler just as I did. I wish they would just put harder stones in so we greenhorns can have a little better chance at success. I know I was really bummed when some of the coolest looking rocks that I started out with were pulverized to rubble.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Aug 1, 2016 22:05:32 GMT -5
You guys are correct. The tumbling mix you get from a lot of places would be a tough batch to manage a good shine. There is a variety of stone in there, which is attractive to the beginner (I did the same) but it's not going to be encouraging when the problems you mentioned inevitably pop up. You'd be better served to buy a couple small lots of agate or certain jaspers and get those down before moving on to more challenging material if you desire. But certainly don't mix such varying degrees of hardness and expect great things.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Aug 2, 2016 10:07:00 GMT -5
Thanks again for the replies. I started with the "medium mix" and added more after the first week. Then I made up the difference the next 2 weekend with blue quartz and picture jasper (I bought 3lb bags of these). I will go thru the mix and separate everything according to their hardness. I also bought 3lb bags of green tree agate, Montana moss agate and Brazilian amethyst that I can cycle in when I need more.
Rob, yes, I am pulling out the rocks that are nice and smooth. I would say almost 1/2 the barrel is 80% done so I would think the amount of "ready" should go up shortly.
And I would also like to thank Walt (manofglass) for sending me to a link showing how Don (rollingstone) does his tumbling. It mentions adding a little grit every so often. I will give that a try after this weekends cleanout. There is so much good information tucked away everywhere around here!
Thanks again! Dave
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Post by captbob on Aug 2, 2016 11:22:36 GMT -5
3b. Back off on barrel-filling for finer stages, as very little material will be lost. If you fill a coarse barrel 3/4 full, it will end up 2/3 or 1/2 full of rocks after a week. For all other stages, it will have as much rock after a week as when you started. I like 2/3 full of combined rock and pellets for stages from fine grind to polish... that allows the rocks to slide and tumble over each other, without being so full as to crest the top of the barrel and crash down on the other side. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this part, but my experience is to do just the opposite. I fill the barrel more as I progress to the finer grits. By the time I reach the polish, there is barely any empty space in the barrel. The fuller the barrel, the less room there is for rocks to "crash" around. I'm a firm believer in excessive amounts of ceramic media and then plastic pellets (plastic pellets are kept sorted/stored to use with dedicated grit/polish steps). Coarse grit tumble with wild abandon, cull stones ready to move on and replace with new material. As grits get finer, filler and water levels increase. 1000 grit or polish, I'm talking like 7/8 full. The further along in the process I get, the quieter I want the barrel to be. I wouldn't even consider running a polish stage at 2/3 full. Polish stage gets enough plastic pellets and water that you can tumble a raw egg without it breaking. (done that - for fun) This may take longer, but I'm in no hurry. Rocks can't "crash" if there is no room to do so. Experimenting and finding what works for you is part of the fun! One more month or so and the garage will cool down enough to start everything back up!
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Aug 3, 2016 10:52:47 GMT -5
3b. Back off on barrel-filling for finer stages, as very little material will be lost. If you fill a coarse barrel 3/4 full, it will end up 2/3 or 1/2 full of rocks after a week. For all other stages, it will have as much rock after a week as when you started. I like 2/3 full of combined rock and pellets for stages from fine grind to polish... that allows the rocks to slide and tumble over each other, without being so full as to crest the top of the barrel and crash down on the other side. Maybe I'm misinterpreting this part, but my experience is to do just the opposite. I fill the barrel more as I progress to the finer grits. By the time I reach the polish, there is barely any empty space in the barrel. The fuller the barrel, the less room there is for rocks to "crash" around. I'm a firm believer in excessive amounts of ceramic media and then plastic pellets (plastic pellets are kept sorted/stored to use with dedicated grit/polish steps). Coarse grit tumble with wild abandon, cull stones ready to move on and replace with new material. As grits get finer, filler and water levels increase. 1000 grit or polish, I'm talking like 7/8 full. The further along in the process I get, the quieter I want the barrel to be. I wouldn't even consider running a polish stage at 2/3 full. Polish stage gets enough plastic pellets and water that you can tumble a raw egg without it breaking. (done that - for fun) This may take longer, but I'm in no hurry. Rocks can't "crash" if there is no room to do so. Experimenting and finding what works for you is part of the fun! One more month or so and the garage will cool down enough to start everything back up! captbob when you do stage 3 and beyond, what percentage of your barrel is rock vs. ceramics vs. plastics? I understand the rationale for filling it, but wonder how much of that should be rock. I don't question you, I am sincerely wondering. Thank you!
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Post by captbob on Aug 3, 2016 11:43:07 GMT -5
huskeric - I'm not after polished ceramic media or plastic pellets, so the barrel is still full of rocks. The ceramics or beads are to fill the gaps to lessen empty space. Empty space is the enemy, in my opinion, in the final stages. When filling the barrel for the final steps, I put in a layer of rock, and then a layer of ceramics or pellets to fill in the voids - just covering the rock layer. Repeat until barrel is full to desired level. So yeah, it's a LOT of plastic pellets in the polish run. I use ceramics for 220 and usually 500 and switch to plastic beads for 1000 and polish. 500 may get pellets over ceramics (or a mix of both) for a soft stone. I don't bother with ceramics with the coarse grits. Lotta (probably most) folks don't use ceramics and beads to the extent that I do. They can make for longer run time. I just figure that if I'm spending that many months on a tumble that I will go the extra step(s) to make the rocks as nice as I can. Never in a hurry, so don't really care if it adds a week here or there. Sure, I could easily speed things up, I have a UV-10 vibe, but I prefer to use rotary barrels to the end. A vibe requires more attention than I am willing to give to rocks at this point. Fill the barrel, turn it on and check on it in a week - or two - or whenever I remember! The rocks don't care... Plastic pellets can often be found cheaply if you take the time to search for them. I bought a 50 lb box of them for a song on eBay from someone that used them to make dolls. For some reason, the cost goes way up if the seller is listing them in the lapidary area. Ceramic media can also be found at much lower prices if you go outside the lapidary area to search and are willing to buy more than 5 lbs at a time. Kinda like buying grit, buying in bulk saves big bucks. Not like these accessories go bad. ETA: where did your Husker avatar go? Go Big Red! I was in Bellevue for years while dad was stationed at Offutt.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Aug 3, 2016 14:06:46 GMT -5
huskeric - I'm not after polished ceramic media or plastic pellets, so the barrel is still full of rocks. The ceramics or beads are to fill the gaps to lessen empty space. Empty space is the enemy, in my opinion, in the final stages. When filling the barrel for the final steps, I put in a layer of rock, and then a layer of ceramics or pellets to fill in the voids - just covering the rock layer. Repeat until barrel is full to desired level. So yeah, it's a LOT of plastic pellets in the polish run. I use ceramics for 220 and usually 500 and switch to plastic beads for 1000 and polish. 500 may get pellets over ceramics (or a mix of both) for a soft stone. I don't bother with ceramics with the coarse grits. Lotta (probably most) folks don't use ceramics and beads to the extent that I do. They can make for longer run time. I just figure that if I'm spending that many months on a tumble that I will go the extra step(s) to make the rocks as nice as I can. Never in a hurry, so don't really care if it adds a week here or there. Sure, I could easily speed things up, I have a UV-10 vibe, but I prefer to use rotary barrels to the end. A vibe requires more attention than I am willing to give to rocks at this point. Fill the barrel, turn it on and check on it in a week - or two - or whenever I remember! The rocks don't care... Plastic pellets can often be found cheaply if you take the time to search for them. I bought a 50 lb box of them for a song on eBay from someone that used them to make dolls. For some reason, the cost goes way up if the seller is listing them in the lapidary area. Ceramic media can also be found at much lower prices if you go outside the lapidary area to search and are willing to buy more than 5 lbs at a time. Kinda like buying grit, buying in bulk saves big bucks. Not like these accessories go bad. ETA: where did your Husker avatar go? Go Big Red! I was in Bellevue for years while dad was stationed at Offutt. captbob, this is awesome information. Thank you! I have quite a bit of ceramic and plastic media, so it's just a matter of using it correctly. On the avatar front, that is ubermenehune who has the Husker avatar. We're both in Omaha, and I'm definitely also a Husker fan. Grew up here, graduated from the University of NE down in Lincoln and bleed Husker red for sure. =) Looking forward to seeing the Huskers maybe return to what they once were.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Aug 3, 2016 15:58:11 GMT -5
Agreed! Thank you for all the information. I also have both types of media and will have plenty of experimenting in the near future.
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glacialtilly
off to a rocking start
Member since March 2016
Posts: 13
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Post by glacialtilly on Aug 4, 2016 15:39:05 GMT -5
I appreciated reading this thread about using media. Makes understanding the process and turning out better looking rocks easier and hopefully more doable. Has anyone used those fake knuckle sized plastic aquarium rocks for filler? I threw 10 in with my rocks (some child had thrown them in my rock bucket) just to see...not sure they help at all, but should add cushioning...I guess...
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Post by greig on Aug 15, 2016 16:02:43 GMT -5
This is a very interesting thread and stuffed with useful info.
I will add my two cents. I would not add rough rock to any previously tumbled rock and would never rinse off and restart. Instead, if my rocks grind down too far in the coarse grind, I would do another run with fresh rock and then double them up in the medium grind. I don't see the point in rinsing all of the rocks, unless I am cleaning them for a finer grind. Certainly, take out a few to clean off and to see how they are doing but then put them back into the slurry. If the coarse grind is "taking too long", my suggestion is just tumble for longer, but sometimes consider adding a bit more grit.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 15, 2016 21:16:45 GMT -5
Hi Greig, welcome to the forum. Many of us run our first stage until the rocks are flawless. There would be no way to tell which rocks were done with the first stage without rinsing and inspecting. Not all rocks get done at the same time, so I inspect each rock and remove only those that are finished. I then add fresh rough rock to make up for any volume lost. By removing just the finished rocks each week, those rocks don't get ground down any more than necessary and there's more room to get other rocks started. Mixing fresh rough rocks with partially polished rocks doesn't hurt anything in the first stage. I know this because each week I am able to remove a few rocks that are done. My first stage runs perpetually because I'm always adding new rocks. In all other stages adding rough rock would mess up the batch, but it's fine in the first stage.
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Post by greig on Aug 15, 2016 23:09:59 GMT -5
I hope that I did not sound insulting. What I do, and by all means it is not the way for everyone - basically, I run one batch at a time from start to finish. I run the first course for as long as the samples that I inspect look like they need more time. I don't clean up the whole batch until I think I am ready (by looking at a few rocks) for the next step. If I find any rocks that look like they need more time, they get re-run again in my next batch. Also, I will take stones out in later steps that broke or fractured and rerun them with the next batch. I don't like to add new stones to a batch that is near completion - I think it adds to the overall run time, as the newer stones have to "start from scratch". However, if you are perpetually running a coarse grit stage in one barrel or machine, then your method makes a great deal of sense to me.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Aug 16, 2016 6:54:34 GMT -5
Nope, you didn't sound insulting at all. I sure hope I didn't come across that way either. I was just sharing another way of doing things. I looked at a couple of your videos. I have done a tiny bit of gold panning on Lake Superior beaches so I want to go back and check out your gold and silver videos.
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scottyh
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2007
Posts: 181
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Post by scottyh on Aug 17, 2016 19:47:57 GMT -5
Hi Greig,
I am one of the brigade that has 1 or two rough barrels running all the time. I just was the drums out every 4-7 days depending on how lazy I feel, pick out the ones that are done and then put very thing back in to keep going. This has worked great for many years. The whole do one batch at a time is a bit start stop I did it when I first started out but then got bored so got a couple of large drums made (1 is 40 lb and the other is bigger) and then just let em roll. Just do what works for you... Each to their own
Cheers Scott
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