ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Oct 31, 2016 13:41:30 GMT -5
I was getting ready to place another Rock Shed order and was looking thru all the crushed rock. Noticed a bunch of "soft" stones and looking to see if anyone has had actual success with these materials - howlite, puddingstone, fossil rock, moonstone, feldspar, etc. I see the directions on the website, just thought I would ask the collective here.
It seems like the rough tumble is 120/220. I'm guessing the 46/70 I use would be way too coarse. Or would I just need to check it after a few days? Does anyone run this material only in the Lot-O? There are 2 sets of instructions shown for soft rocks. One has a dry polish and one is wet. Advantages of one over the other? Do you use ceramics or pellets when running this in the rotary tumblers?
Thanks for any info!
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
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Post by ubermenehune on Nov 1, 2016 20:26:16 GMT -5
To shape, I toss soft rocks into the same rotary barrel as harder stones, and check on them at least twice a week. Same approach when I transition to vibe; Generally, soft stuff requires less time at each stage. The main difference is how i apply a shine. That's where I'll use dry corn cob media for softer material. Of the ones you listed, I've had experience with howlite and feldspar (amazonite), but have also worked with septarian, calcite, coquina, etc. Some material is notoriously difficult to tumble to satisfactory results (labradorite, apatite come to mind).
That's just what I do. I'm sure others have different protocols.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Nov 8, 2016 12:44:57 GMT -5
To shape, I toss soft rocks into the same rotary barrel as harder stones, and check on them at least twice a week. Same approach when I transition to vibe; Generally, soft stuff requires less time at each stage. The main difference is how i apply a shine. That's where I'll use dry corn cob media for softer material. Of the ones you listed, I've had experience with howlite and feldspar (amazonite), but have also worked with septarian, calcite, coquina, etc. Some material is notoriously difficult to tumble to satisfactory results (labradorite, apatite come to mind). That's just what I do. I'm sure others have different protocols. (Sigh) I just started some amazonite and apatite and then I read your post about apatite. At least my expectations will be set appropriately. =)
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ubermenehune
spending too much on rocks
Member since March 2016
Posts: 293
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Post by ubermenehune on Nov 8, 2016 14:46:35 GMT -5
Your amazonite will end up looking pretty good.
Regarding apatite, YMMV. You may get better results on yours. Mine just seemed to be filled with fractures made more apparent after tumbling. But you can still get a decent shine.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,155
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Post by jamesp on Nov 9, 2016 7:11:46 GMT -5
I have a bad attitude about tumbling soft. Too many war stories. Gave up completely. Never had a batch of good ole agate or wood fail. Not worth the time and effort to risk all the work.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 9, 2016 10:28:09 GMT -5
I have a bad attitude about tumbling soft. Too many war stories. Gave up completely. Never had a batch of good ole agate or wood fail. Not worth the time and effort to risk all the work. Very first batch I tumbled had the typical tumbling mix 'for beginners', which included labradorite, lapis, apatite, etc. Looks really pretty, and what could go wrong? It's for beginners, right? I see many first batches posted on here with similar materials and not spectacular results. Mine was no different. All that crap went into my discard bucket and I have been tumbling 90% agate and wood since. I still like to keep one barrel open for quartz or obsidian tumbles, for a small challenge and the 'something different' factor.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,155
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Post by jamesp on Nov 9, 2016 10:51:34 GMT -5
I have a bad attitude about tumbling soft. Too many war stories. Gave up completely. Never had a batch of good ole agate or wood fail. Not worth the time and effort to risk all the work. Very first batch I tumbled had the typical tumbling mix 'for beginners', which included labradorite, lapis, apatite, etc. Looks really pretty, and what could go wrong? It's for beginners, right? I see many first batches posted on here with similar materials and not spectacular results. Mine was no different. All that crap went into my discard bucket and I have been tumbling 90% agate and wood since. I still like to keep one barrel open for quartz or obsidian tumbles, for a small challenge and the 'something different' factor. Tumbling variable and many paths to take. But soft rocks require witchcraft at times. Curious why marketers would jinx hobbyist supplying soft rocks.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Nov 9, 2016 11:15:31 GMT -5
I've been wondering if it's worth the time also. I've been on an agate and jasper buying spree these past couple weeks so it's not like I don't have enough material already. Still might purchase some of these rocks and keep one of my four barrels running with it. I guess we'll see what happens. Thanks for the thoughts/suggestions!
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SirRoxalot
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since October 2003
Posts: 790
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Post by SirRoxalot on Nov 15, 2016 15:49:28 GMT -5
Puddingstone is no trouble, assuming you're talking about the red jasper pebbles in white quartzite. The feldspar group is ok, but takes a lot more work than most. You have to put good stuff in, and be a bit more gentle with it. The perfect cleavage loves to open up, and makes for lots of nipping or grinding if you want top quality results. Hammer the cracks without mercy. My UV-10 is a bit aggressive, so I have to slow it down, add lots of smalls, and watch it closely when doing feldspars.
A lot of the really soft stuff is just too much hassle; the interesting things you see at shows might be shaped in a tumbler but are hand-polished overseas where time and labor don't mean much. It's fun to experiment, but it can eat up an awful lot of time. I much prefer the easily polished and beautiful agates and jaspers.
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Post by greig on Nov 26, 2016 10:20:16 GMT -5
I have experimented with some of the same soft stones for a while with varied results. I would add a couple more minerals to the list above that have been challenging and worst for me was calcite, with dolomite and fluorite a close second. Some of mine self collected calcite and dolomite has nickel, cobalt or silver in it. If I get it right, the contrast is excellent. More often then not, I end up grinding too much rock away.
So my best advise (from my long learning curve - and still learning) is to start with the rock shaped fairly close to what you want it to look like, skip a step (either 1 or 2), keep a close eye on the tumble (especially when using coarse grit - sometimes it is done in a few hours or overnight) and keep hard rocks out of the tumble.
The polish steps are my downfall, especially when using a rotary tumbler. Some of these rocks look pretty good when wet, but not so great dry. For this reason, I have acquired a vibratory tumbler and will try finishing them with walnut shell to see if that is an improvement. I immediately broke my tumbler and it will be a winter project to fix it and experiment polishing.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Apr 28, 2017 9:59:43 GMT -5
Well, I wanted to update this thread with some results. I bought some Fossil Rock and Puddingstone from The Rock Shed. I ran one 6lb Lortone barrel with just these in there - no other filler. I used 4 tablespoons of 120/220 SiC and did a weekly clean out. I added more water than I would normally use since this created quite a thick slurry. These took about 4-5 weeks to smooth out. Once I had a bunch finished, I switched to using the Lot-O with the following steps: 1 tablespoon 120/220 SiC ran for 12 hours 1/2 teaspoon 500 AO + 1 tablespoon of Borax ran for 12 hours 1/2 teaspoon 1000 AO + 1 tablespoon of Borax ran for 12 hours I then filled the barrel with 3 pounds of 2mm ceramics and water to cover (according to the Rock Shed directions) I divided the rocks up into 2 batches I used 5 tablespoons of AO Polish and ran this for 3 days (this was a very messy part) At this point the rocks didn't look shiny at all so I decided to run them thru the polish stage again using my tried and true recipe 1/2 teaspoon AO Polish + 1 tablespoon of Borax ran for 48 hours (filled rest of Lot-O with pre-polished large ceramics) The results were the same. Not much of a shine. I see the Rock Shed also has directions for a dry polish using corn cob media. I might purchase a bag of this with my next order and give it a try. But for now, here are the results.
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notjustone
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2017
Posts: 426
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Post by notjustone on Apr 28, 2017 11:15:20 GMT -5
one thing I did notice before I got the vibe was that running mixed loads my tumbles came out more consistent polished in the rotary. in the vibe the harder rocks came out shinier than in rotary. but the soft ones came out with less shine than they did in the rotary. so right now I'm putting everything through the coarse tumble grind. then into the uv-10 with ao-80. then ao-polish. I'm currently in the process of setting aside any of the softer stones that don't take a wet shine until I have enough to fill my ar-12 barrel. then plan to do another polish in the rotary with generous amount of plastics. its nice to tumble the super hard rocks. but the thrifty bastard in me keeps his eyes open for them big flat rate boxes of mixed tumbles.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,155
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Post by jamesp on Apr 30, 2017 7:24:41 GMT -5
Yall's findings about the same as mine notjust and Dave. With emphasis on the rotary finished soft rocks having a better shine . But blame my vibe for some of that problem,
Regardless, some of my favorite tumbles are matte finished soft rocks.
The puddingstone is a treasure Dave.
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