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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 12, 2017 6:29:42 GMT -5
metalsmith , this forum has never been big on censorship. The goal of the moderators is not to stifle free speech. Lots of things are said that I don't like or agree with, but that doesn't mean I will shut them down. In the case of this thread, the (OP) adam chose to continue the conversation. Even after the "insulting" posts. We are all adults here, if Adam were a child, maybe I would consider some action, but he isn't. Some part of him needs to continue with this. Others, ( captbob ) seem more than happy to continue along with him. This thread has less to do with bullying and more to do with stubbornness, IMHO. That and a lack of empathy. I can't moderate human emotion or lack thereof.
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Post by captbob on Apr 12, 2017 7:36:35 GMT -5
Oh my this is gonna be fun! Back when I have the time.
#this
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 12, 2017 7:41:30 GMT -5
Oh my this is gonna be fun! Back when I have the time. #this What no popcorn? My post was not meant to be fun. Simply pointing out that you are free to say what you want and free NOT to say whatever comes to your mind.
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Post by captbob on Apr 12, 2017 8:39:21 GMT -5
I wasn't referring to your post Tela. As off the cuff as my posts may seem at times, my words are usually carefully considered. Whatever comes to mind is often much more imprudent than what I end up going with. I don't build safe spaces for little snowflakes to be coddled in, I tear them down. As with most things in life, empathy has it's place. Then again, sometimes a good spanking is warranted. Usually there is a prudent middle ground between a pat on the head and a kick in the @ss. Almost like two sides of a coin or even "two very different perspectives on the same thing, neither of which is necessarily incorrect". #srgay
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Post by adam on Apr 12, 2017 8:40:13 GMT -5
I love you guys.
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 12, 2017 9:03:12 GMT -5
We all have your best interest at heart, adam. I wish you happy sales moving forward.
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Post by captbob on Apr 12, 2017 9:54:14 GMT -5
We all have your best interest at heart, adam . I wish you happy sales moving forward. Now this I can agree with! If I didn't give a rat's butt, I would have simply have posted something (imprudent) like "what a dumbass" and wandered off. Instead, I have invested quite a bit of time trying to make this a teachable moment - in my own lovable gruff way. Just when I think we are heading in the right direction you ( adam ) come back with another justification or an "I did nothing wrong". I'm happy to let sleeping dogs lie, but if you are going to keep throwing me soft balls, I'm gonna keep swinging at 'em! I am posting for you, not for my own gain. What would I have to gain? And I certainly have better things to do. Don't know that you recall, but I was the first here to buy your Kentucky rocks. 100 bucks worth back in the summer of 2015 when you were new here and seemed to need a break - and some cash. Been on your side from the get go. But... you screw the pooch and I'm gonna call ya on it. Think any of my comments here are harsh or blunt? You should see what I do/say to my close friends that f' up! I'm most definitely not one to sugar coat or mince my words, don't see the need or care enough to make the effort. If that ruffles some feathers I consider that a bonus. And if it wakes you up that is a win. Don't fret metalsmith , my reply to your post is still on my to do list Busy multitasking, but I will get to it!
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 12, 2017 9:56:56 GMT -5
We all have your best interest at heart, adam . I wish you happy sales moving forward. Now this I can agree with! If I didn't give a rat's butt, I would have simply have posted something (imprudent) like "what a dumbass" and wandered off. Instead, I have invested quite a bit of time trying to make this a teachable moment - in my own lovable gruff way. Just when I think we are heading in the right direction you ( adam ) come back with another justification or an "I did nothing wrong". I'm happy to let sleeping dogs lie, but if you are going to keep throwing me soft balls, I'm gonna keep swinging at 'em! I am posting for you, not for my own gain. What would I have to gain? And I certainly have better things to do. Don't know that you recall, but I was the first here to buy your Kentucky rocks. 100 bucks worth back in the summer of 2015 when you were new here and seemed to need a break - and some cash. Been on your side from the get go. But... you screw the pooch and I'm gonna call ya on it. Think any of my comments here are harsh or blunt? You should see what I do/say to my close friends that f' up! I'm most definitely not one to sugar coat or mince my words, don't see the need or care enough to make the effort. If that ruffles some feathers I consider that a bonus. And if it wakes you up that is a win. Don't fret metalsmith , my reply to your post is still on my to do list Busy multitasking, but I will get to it! Bob, I'm sorry to have to say this, but that was quite nice of you. eta- should have said -sorry to be the one to point this out... seriously, that was great.
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Post by captbob on Apr 12, 2017 10:42:34 GMT -5
Hush now! Depreciation of my Grinchyness will not be tolerated.
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Post by captbob on Apr 12, 2017 17:51:24 GMT -5
alrighty, time permits ... metalsmith The first paragraph I consider irrelevant babble, so I'm gonna skip that one. moving on - LOL shots fired! Okay, I'd love to hear (again!) how there are two sides to this backing out of a concluded sale issue. But we've been there done that. Even Adam said: " I screwed up, alright." Cute pictures, might even pertinent if there were two sides. There aren't. E for effort though. Of all the advice, suggestions and comments posted in this thread so far, I consider this one by far the worst. You say that you know Adam is a "trier", yet you suggest he run away and go to another forum to cut his losses? Seriously? That's your answer? You sure you aren't French? (that was funny!) I'm not sure what his "losses" are and it certainly wouldn't ever cross my mind that he should -or would want to- leave. This is his home and he has many relationships developed over the past couple years. Cyberbullying - yeah right... trigger words and safe spaces and hashtags, oh my! So you want some board mommies to keep everyone safe, warm and cozy from conflicting/differing opinions? How progressive. here is where the fun starts ... You have no idea what I have or have not thought about. But, that eBay "says so" hasn't been the point of my posts going all the way back to when I discovered Adam's negative feedback. MY issue was about honoring one's word - which I consider a sale on eBay to be. YOU however posted back on April 6th - (your quote) No, I agree. That's called breaking (or breach of) contract. That's why you got negative feedback. The deal had been formed. Well, which is it? I'm confused. Now you are contradicting yourself. Okay, I think we agree on something here. This matter was a learning experience. One that I kept thinking we have settled and we were ready to move beyond. But then Adam comes roaring back with "I did nothing wrong. ... There are two sides to a coin." etc. *sigh* two steps forward, one step back ... So okay, we'll go over this again. (which we have) Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, you wrote: (regarding eBay sales policies) Adam had previously posted: "Customer got his money back, so I did nothing wrong." So there WAS a consideration (which was refunded) therefore, in your own words, a "contract". Personally, I wasn't even focusing on the eBay "contract" aspect. I would suggest that when you go after someone with guns blazing that you freshen up on the relevant aspects and facts of the issue at hand. That "consideration" and refund pretty much blows the entire last paragraph of your rant right out of the water, but I find the following worth mentioning - You follow this with talk of lawyers, courts and costs ... how prissy. Again, (broken record) the eBay "contract" wasn't the point. A man's word is. In the quote above, you say: "At this point...one can go back on their word without legal consequence". Wow. So it's okay to go back on one's word as long as there aren't legal consequences? * That is NOT part of the lesson Adam!* This post is not directed at Adam as we have been over this all ad nauseum. The point is you are attacking me for giving the exact same advice and making some of the exact same comments and suggestions as others here have posted. Frankly, I don't care what you think, but I'm not one to let a misguided assault stand without a retort. I enjoy a good retort! Plus, I hate to miss the opportunity for such repartee. I ain't the one kicking the horse sister, just knocking the ball back over the net.
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Post by MrP on Apr 12, 2017 18:22:03 GMT -5
alrighty, time permits ... metalsmith The first paragraph I consider irrelevant babble, so I'm gonna skip that one. moving on - LOL shots fired! Okay, I'd love to hear (again!) how there are two sides to this backing out of a concluded sale issue. But we've been there done that. Even Adam said: " I screwed up, alright." Cute pictures, might even pertinent if there were two sides. There aren't. E for effort though. Of all the advice, suggestions and comments posted in this thread so far, I consider this one by far the worst. You say that you know Adam is a "trier", yet you suggest he run away and go to another forum to cut his losses? Seriously? That's your answer? You sure you aren't French? (that was funny!) I'm not sure what his "losses" are and it certainly wouldn't ever cross my mind that he should -or would want to- leave. This is his home and he has many relationships developed over the past couple years. Cyberbullying - yeah right... trigger words and safe spaces and hashtags, oh my! So you want some board mommies to keep everyone safe, warm and cozy from conflicting/differing opinions? How progressive. here is where the fun starts ... You have no idea what I have or have not thought about. But, that eBay "says so" hasn't been the point of my posts going all the way back to when I discovered Adam's negative feedback. MY issue was about honoring one's word - which I consider a sale on eBay to be. YOU however posted back on April 6th - (your quote) No, I agree. That's called breaking (or breach of) contract. That's why you got negative feedback. The deal had been formed. Well, which is it? I'm confused. Now you are contradicting yourself. Okay, I think we agree on something here. This matter was a learning experience. One that I kept thinking we have settled and we were ready to move beyond. But then Adam comes roaring back with "I did nothing wrong. ... There are two sides to a coin." etc. *sigh* two steps forward, one step back ... So okay, we'll go over this again. (which we have) Oh, and while I'm thinking about it, you wrote: (regarding eBay sales policies) Adam had previously posted: "Customer got his money back, so I did nothing wrong." So there WAS a consideration (which was refunded) therefore, in your own words, a "contract". Personally, I wasn't even focusing on the eBay "contract" aspect. I would suggest that when you go after someone with guns blazing that you freshen up on the relevant aspects and facts of the issue at hand. That "consideration" and refund pretty much blows the entire last paragraph of your rant right out of the water, but I find the following worth mentioning - You follow this with talk of lawyers, courts and costs ... how prissy. Again, (broken record) the eBay "contract" wasn't the point. A man's word is. In the quote above, you say: "At this point...one can go back on their word without legal consequence". Wow. So it's okay to go back on one's word as long as there aren't legal consequences? * That is NOT part of the lesson Adam!* This post is not directed at Adam as we have been over this all ad nauseum. The point is you are attacking me for giving the exact same advice and making some of the exact same comments and suggestions as others here have posted. Frankly, I don't care what you think, but I'm not one to let a misguided assault stand without a retort. I enjoy a good retort! Plus, I hate to miss the opportunity for such repartee. I ain't the one kicking the horse sister, just knocking the ball back over the net. Note to Self: If you are going to take on captbob make sure you take good notes! ......................................MrP
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 12, 2017 19:51:35 GMT -5
Just read through this thread.
Adam, you were in the wrong. When you put something on Ebay it clearly states you are entering in to a bonding contract. A contract is composted of an offer (your selling in any format) and an acceptance (the buyers winning bid or otherwise purchasing and paying for the item.
And I am not buying the sentimental argument as if something is really sentimental you do not put it up for sale to begin with. And even if you did and changed your mind you do not try to negotiate for a higher price since something truly sentimental should have no financial value. If it really truly sentimental then you would have cancelled the auction and put the item(s) on a shelf to not be sold, not holding out for more money.
Finally, when you put something up for auction you have several options. 1. You start the bod low and hope for a bidding war. If it goes lower than you hoped for you still send the item to fulfill your end of the contract and accept the lesson. 2. Start your bidding at or slightly below what would make you happy to get. 3. Put a reserve on the auction. Trying to renegotiate a price after the fact is not an option and is a breach of contract.
If you don't want to do an auction then put the items up for a Buy it Now.
I rarely ever leave negative feedback but did once because of a similar situation. The seller put up an oxygen concentrator with no reserve. Long story short I won it for about $12 plus shipping. Of course he was not very happy about how much it went for so he claimed he lost the item, which would be awful hard to do for an item that large. So I left negative feedback and filed complaints with Ebay since this was a legal contract. He finally sent me another unit that was not as good as the one he originally posted but I figured it was better than nothing, but left up the negative feedback because it was not what I paid for. If I were in the position of your buyers I would have also been pissed and left negative feedback because I expect to get what I paid for at the price I won or bought it for pursuant to the contract.
And your basically ignoring what people are telling you and trying to justify your actions, which cannot be justified in any way, is not helping your case. Are those slabs really sentimental enough to you to ruin your reputation?
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metalsmith
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 1,537
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Post by metalsmith on Apr 13, 2017 2:55:03 GMT -5
The first paragraph I consider irrelevant babble Thank you for the beneficiency of your judgement. I am humbled. There is one side to backing out of a concluded sale: beration and public humiliation in perpetuity, it seems . I'm sorry if you're unclear; it seems to be also American (similar in English); perhaps you could consider more sensitively what losses to his reputation this thread has brought. It seems you may have done so with the benefit the wisdom of these thoughts might bring. Of course I... Egocentricity knows no bounds. I have many French friends; what are you saying? How to make lose friends and alienate nations ... Sorry to contradict your view of the world; a sale on ebay is a contract. There may be opportunity to honor one's word in the discharging of it. Oh sh*t now I've broken my word, I know what to expect here. Peut-être je devrais trouver un besoin d'aller en vacance dans la belle France, encore. Why miss an opportunity ... actually: <snore>... But now you will. Thanks for the generosity of your time. Perhaps as reward for your motivation you might have an opportunity to flame somebody else. Really? When it comes to 'guns blazing', Mohandas Ghandi is my role model. Thanks for the personal attack. You're showing your colours. Yes, sometimes discretion can be the better part of valor. Oh now you're the victim? Let me fetch the band aid. These things often work both ways. I used to care what you think. That's now in decline; on the red list in fact. I'm pleased to have had the opportunity, nay, benefit, to have my mind cleansed of such conciliatory thoughts. I'm not sure what I was thinking in contradicting to fit with a very polarised view of the world. Toute a l'heure
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Post by adam on Apr 13, 2017 7:38:08 GMT -5
Just read through this thread. Adam, you were in the wrong. When you put something on Ebay it clearly states you are entering in to a bonding contract. A contract is composted of an offer (your selling in any format) and an acceptance (the buyers winning bid or otherwise purchasing and paying for the item. And I am not buying the sentimental argument as if something is really sentimental you do not put it up for sale to begin with. And even if you did and changed your mind you do not try to negotiate for a higher price since something truly sentimental should have no financial value. If it really truly sentimental then you would have cancelled the auction and put the item(s) on a shelf to not be sold, not holding out for more money. Finally, when you put something up for auction you have several options. 1. You start the bod low and hope for a bidding war. If it goes lower than you hoped for you still send the item to fulfill your end of the contract and accept the lesson. 2. Start your bidding at or slightly below what would make you happy to get. 3. Put a reserve on the auction. Trying to renegotiate a price after the fact is not an option and is a breach of contract. If you don't want to do an auction then put the items up for a Buy it Now. I rarely ever leave negative feedback but did once because of a similar situation. The seller put up an oxygen concentrator with no reserve. Long story short I won it for about $12 plus shipping. Of course he was not very happy about how much it went for so he claimed he lost the item, which would be awful hard to do for an item that large. So I left negative feedback and filed complaints with Ebay since this was a legal contract. He finally sent me another unit that was not as good as the one he originally posted but I figured it was better than nothing, but left up the negative feedback because it was not what I paid for. If I were in the position of your buyers I would have also been pissed and left negative feedback because I expect to get what I paid for at the price I won or bought it for pursuant to the contract. And your basically ignoring what people are telling you and trying to justify your actions, which cannot be justified in any way, is not helping your case. Are those slabs really sentimental enough to you to ruin your reputation? Reputation... I could start a new eBay account, but that is just a waste in my book. I can be as sentimental as I want just as any other human being. But that won't get me far in business, clearly. Too many people get pissed over trivial things, like buying slabs from me. I assume, vegasjames, that when you get pissed, you get really pissed. That's fine. But you're still gonna be butt hurt, because you cannot forget about the transgression of being denied a real nice oxygen concentrator. But, you still get an oxygen concentrator. Congratulations! I could imagine someone being butt hurt because they didn't get the slabs that I listed on eBay. Tough luck. They've many options on eBay. But what if they wanted the particular slabs that I listed and those slabs are no longer available? Damn, that would suck! What are you guys trying to prove? That I am in the wrong? Fine. Sure. Call me the bad guy. Hate me because my sentimentality got in the way of my business. Contracts are pathetic. Trying to argue against me is pathetic. But none of you are pathetic, trust me. The argument itself is.
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Post by captbob on Apr 13, 2017 8:31:40 GMT -5
metalsmithThat was fun! Thank you for the waking up and turning on the computer smiles. Nice to see someone try to play. It was weak, but rather like playing someone that isn't very good at chess, I appreciate the effort! Bless yer heart. I would enjoy going back and forth here, but I'm sure that the patience of our host has some limits. actually amazed that this thread hasn't been locked ...
A couple quick points before I get on with my day. I am not the only person that has said what Adam did was wrong. YOU even said that he broke a contract. Yet you seem focused that I am the only bad guy in this? (oh boohoo I'm the victim! That was jolly good! Tally ho and all that) Others have brought this back to the top. Others have (also) suggested that maybe closing his eBay shop and starting over may be a good idea - That 85% feedback is gonna kill his sales. Adam said " I screwed up, alright." then more recently, "Customer got his money back, so I did nothing wrong." This contradiction and lack of understanding of the issue indicates, to me, that this may not be over. We will see. I've pretty much exhausted all my ideas on schoolin' him here and have past the point of diminishing returns. I tried. Can't save 'em all ... As to the French, I was referring to their tendency to surrender. (American joke) Peut-être je devrais trouver un besoin d'aller en vacance dans la belle France, encore. - Sorry, no hablo frog. "Prissy" was not an attack (believe me) merely an observation. In hindsight, saying that all that court & lawyers drivel was immaterial would have sufficed. Things to do. Thanks again for playing!
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Post by wigglinrocks on Apr 13, 2017 10:15:57 GMT -5
Now , can't we all just get along .
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Post by captbob on Apr 13, 2017 11:13:32 GMT -5
Now , can't we all just get along . I thought we were! Out mowing the yard and it came to me that I should clarify my saying that metalsmith 's game was weak. My bad. Her game play and point counterpoint was adequate. Even managed a witty retort. Bravo. I liked the band aid line! Egocentricity seemed a shot made out of desperation. Air ball ... Just that she was working from an indefensible position. I don't believe (no time to reread entire thread) that a single person here agreed with Adam's action of canceling a completed auction. Few could abide his later justification(s) or indifference. Tough position to defend. Curious that one would. Doubling down that it is acceptable to go back on one's word was a blunder. Time to go clean the pool. Can't find a smiley emoji thing for that. Wondering when I will be hearing from France! *snort*
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Post by rockjunquie on Apr 13, 2017 11:20:15 GMT -5
Just an FYI, I do believe that metalsmith is a guy. metalsmith- You did well, even the Capt agrees. Now, can we all move along?
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Post by captbob on Apr 13, 2017 11:44:36 GMT -5
Just an FYI, I do believe that metalsmith is a guy. Really? My apologies if so. Kinda thought that was a girl avatar. metalsmith you a guy?
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Post by 1dave on Apr 13, 2017 12:01:46 GMT -5
I am so glad I missed this thread!
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