tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 8, 2017 10:07:31 GMT -5
Hi all,
I have to admit, I am getting a little frustrated with tumbling. Maybe I am just too impatient, but it seems I am getting nowhere. All told, I have plenty of time in 220 grit and about 36 hours into my restart of 500 pre polish. I have serious grit coating on my cabs and ceramic filler, ( mostly small ceramic from Rock Shed.) no standing water, and good tumbling movement. (by adding more pre tumbled media to fill the bowl fuller) But the stones don't seem to be looking much different than when I started. And I am now getting ceramic pallets climbing the barrel and trying to escape when I open the lid to check on them. It's getting to be quite a mess. Also, overnight, slurry started caking and drying around the rim.
Is that normal? Too much media? Too much grit? Too little water? It's all fine.. just chill and wait another day or two? Does shine happen suddenly at the end or should I be seeing hints of it as the process goes? So far, nothing.
I could use a little reassurance and some pointers. So far I seem to be doing a lot of monitoring but not seeing any progress. Also having trouble with flat sides sticking to each other even with high ratio of ceramic. Perhaps I am monitoring too much and too anxious for results.
Thanks for any help.
Dale
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,978
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Post by victor1941 on Jan 8, 2017 12:11:40 GMT -5
Don't worry because you are just starting the learning curve for a vibe tumbler and this forum is a great place to look for answers. I have only 3 years experience with a UV-18 vibe and polish mostly preformed cabs and will relate my results for cabs. I use Biker Randy"s polishing steps in my vibe and get great results. A lot of what you are seeing is quite normal for my vibe and requires an addition of water or media. Make certain that your vibe is not under loaded, media and cabs properly moistened, and correct amount of abrasive. I would recommend you opening the vibe every couple of hours during the day on the 110/220 grit to see what is happening when the abrasive starts to erode the rock. The first step cuts the surface and makes fine particles that require the addition of water to keep everything moving freely and not sticking together. If you by chance add too much water I simply add and remove several paper towels to remove the excess moisture and add extra grit if necessary. I some times turn my vibe off at night if I start the coarse grit late in the day because I want a maximum movement. Once you get to prepolish and polish the addition of water is much less. Make sure to keep the nuts tightened and enjoy the process.
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ChicagoDave
has rocks in the head
Member since June 2016
Posts: 720
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Post by ChicagoDave on Jan 8, 2017 12:13:33 GMT -5
How much grit are you using? Also, I had trouble when I was using too much of the small ceramics. I don't think you're going to see much of a shine with the 500. After my rocks are nice and round from the rotary, I do the following in the Lot-O 2 days of 2TB 120/220 SiC 2 days of 1/2tsp AO 500 2 days of 1/2tsp AO 1000 2 days of 1/2tsp AO polish (14,000 I think - from Rock Shed)
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Post by wigglinrocks on Jan 8, 2017 12:23:28 GMT -5
The first thing I want to say is patience is a requirement for a good polish . 36 hours in 500 is not long enough to give you a good shine , a good start maybe . After all that's why it is called pre polish . Give it time . Don't know what vibe you are using , but in a Gy roc , if I use too many small pellets I have that problem with wall climbing and trying to jump out . A good mix of large and small usually cures that . Or it could be just a touch on the dry side . Maybe a spray of water will help . Don't get discouraged , find what works for you and run with that . No real rules to follow , just try different things and you will get it right .
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 8, 2017 13:47:27 GMT -5
I give my Lot-O a few squirts of water before bed when it's doing the 120/220 stage. If it gets dry over night, I start squirting water in gradually. I give the water time to distribute before I add too much. It's easier to add it slowly than it is to remove it later. I've had loads dry out pretty bad at times and I've never noticed that it did the rocks any harm.
I have never noticed any problem with too much media in my tumbler. It has never tried to climb out, but it does stick to the inside of the barrel sometimes. If it does, I add water and rub the ceramic off the sides with my finger.
I use the same recipe as Dave and it works very well for me. The recipe is for a 4.5 lb. Lot-O. If I remember correctly, you have a Thumler's 10 pounder, so you would have to double it.
To me it sounds like you're doing everything right. I'd give it at least another 12 hours in 500. Another full day shouldn't hurt anything.
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 8, 2017 16:56:04 GMT -5
Thanks, everybody, for your words of encouragement and pointers. I did decide to step away from the tumbler with hands raised for a while, and just let it do its thing. I think I may have used too much 500 grit as I keep having to spritz pretty often. I think the climbing may also be happening because the batch is too sticky. So that is a lesson learned for the next batch. I sprayed quite a bit of water, and the climbing has slowed down, and no puddle in the bottom.
My first tumble kept slowing way down for two reasons, first, I had too much water, and also it was loaded just barely up to the blue line. Adding more media, pulling out rocks that weren't keeping up, and dialing in my water to grit ratio really helped keep a good roll going. Now I just need that shine to show up. I'll take a deep breath and let it keep on tumbling for another full day or maybe two.
I guess I was a little over confident when I started out, and now a little overanxious. Ten deep breaths and I'm settled and ready to relax and take it as it comes.
Thanks again!
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Jan 8, 2017 17:36:44 GMT -5
Thanks, everybody, for your words of encouragement and pointers. I did decide to step away from the tumbler with hands raised for a while, and just let it do its thing. I think I may have used too much 500 grit as I keep having to spritz pretty often. I think the climbing may also be happening because the batch is too sticky. So that is a lesson learned for the next batch. I sprayed quite a bit of water, and the climbing has slowed down, and no puddle in the bottom. My first tumble kept slowing way down for two reasons, first, I had too much water, and also it was loaded just barely up to the blue line. Adding more media, pulling out rocks that weren't keeping up, and dialing in my water to grit ratio really helped keep a good roll going. Now I just need that shine to show up. I'll take a deep breath and let it keep on tumbling for another full day or maybe two. I guess I was a little over confident when I started out, and now a little overanxious. Ten deep breaths and I'm settled and ready to relax and take it as it comes. Thanks again! First small media and small rocks climbing up the sides of a thumlers vibe is normal. It really doesn't hurt anything. You are correct that the thicker the slurry the more this happens. It kinda "freaked me out" at first too. The problem could well be too much grit as you mentioned. Don't know how much you are using but it takes very little. In my UV18, which holds about 16 pounds of rock and media, I use 2 tablespoons of polish or pre-polish. You are running an MB10? If so that's about 4 pounds payload from what I know. If that's correct you'd need about 1/2 tablespoon of 500. I know I started using more grit than I do now and have had better results as I've cut back. It took me 4 or 5 batches to get things figured out. Thought I'd nail it out of the gate but that didn't happen. LOL
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 8, 2017 18:22:13 GMT -5
Yeah, Ken, I figured I had read everything there was to read and was fully prepared. Nope! Butt kicked.....
Thanks,
Dale
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Jan 10, 2017 21:08:43 GMT -5
Just a quick update to let you all know that I am finally seeing some pretty good shine after settling down and waiting for the tumbler to do its job. It's not a wet shine, but a decent shine on the agate and jasper. Not so much on the rose quartz, and the mahogany obsidian and a few other rocks, but at least some are doing quite well. I am especially pleased that two of the shiny cabs were not purchased rocks. One is from an agatized coral piece that I picked up on the causeway to Honeymoon Island in Clearwater, and the other, a piece of Jasper that we picked up in Utah trying to find our way to Agate Hill on our way to Bryce. Rental car refused to let us get all the way there, but the fun we had picking up rocks on the side of the dirt path, while scaring ourselves silly that an Elk herd was probably going to stampede us to death at any moment, makes me cherish that red rock with the baby blue speckles. It's not just pretty, it's one of my most treasured souvenirs.
Thanks, everybody for your advice and encouragement. Do I wait for wet shine out of the pre-polish, or do I move on to the final polish for that to happen?
Dale
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Post by wigglinrocks on Jan 10, 2017 21:21:00 GMT -5
Maybe I do things wrong but I never get a wet shine from pre polish . Throw them in polish stage and shine em up .
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victor1941
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since November 2011
Posts: 1,978
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Post by victor1941 on Jan 10, 2017 21:34:10 GMT -5
In my UV-18 I sometimes run the 500 for 3 or 4 days and then move to polish which has a much finer mesh for another 3 or 4 days. When you like the finish by visual inspection you are through. I check by seeing if the wet cab dries and the shine stays. As a side note in my UV-18 when the small media wears through use the climbing is more pronounced and I just scrape it back into the bowl. Also, I run two cycles of 110/220 because my cabs come directly from a 60 grit flat lap and no other steps.
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rastageezer
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since December 2013
Posts: 169
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Post by rastageezer on Jan 11, 2017 1:31:23 GMT -5
My problem in the Lot-O often shows up in the AO 1000 stage. Everything looks fine up to that point and BAM the pre polish shows up all the flaws and cakes on the rocks........back to step 2. Probably a result of not being picky 'enuf with the rocks moving on through early stages! or using too much AO 1000
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Jan 11, 2017 13:43:38 GMT -5
My problem in the Lot-O often shows up in the AO 1000 stage. Everything looks fine up to that point and BAM the pre polish shows up all the flaws and cakes on the rocks........back to step 2. Probably a result of not being picky 'enuf with the rocks moving on through early stages! or using too much AO 1000 Are you pre-forming your rocks either with a wheel or in a rotary before the Lot-O? I have tried moving more to the vibe and away from the rotaries as much, but for stage 1 and even stage 2 to a degree, I stick with the rotaries because the vibe doesn't get out all of the little nicks and thing like that. I understand that a lot of people like to maintain the shape/character of the stones, but I've run jasper in 60/90 for WEEKS and it maintains the overall shape of the rock as it started, but it just softens the edges and gets out the roughness that prevents a good polish. The more I have tried to fight that, the more I come back to letting them run longer in the rotary to get the results I like.
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tropidale
starting to shine!
Member since October 2016
Posts: 46
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Post by tropidale on Feb 20, 2017 22:47:53 GMT -5
Most of my tumble is cab preforms, with ceramic filler. I mainly bought the vibe to do the final smooth and polish. Sorry for the delay in responding. I didn't see your post.
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Post by johnjsgems on Feb 21, 2017 13:08:41 GMT -5
You don't say what polish you are using. 500 AO would have to run a long tie to break down to polish. Best to use a sub micron size AO polish (.3 or .5 micron) for fastest polish.
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