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Post by Jugglerguy on Mar 15, 2017 18:32:25 GMT -5
Jugglerguy If youre not currently doing a batch why not try his method with some small filler rocks to give it a whirl? That way you don't screw anything up and can reuse the smalls with other stuff if not the desired result. I'm going to try it. I just have to order some grit first.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,155
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Post by jamesp on Mar 16, 2017 5:42:59 GMT -5
We should probably take all this AO chit chat elsewhere, kinda derailing a good thread all to hell and gone here. Not that this is unusual, but that OP took a lot of thought and time, and may benefit some new hobbyists. I did over the past few months. With almost a dozen on PM's. More than half have successfully finished rocks using AO 80 trick. Some in process of ordering AO 80. Mostly people new to tumbling. Best(let's say easiest) results were doing AO 80 and AO 14,000 steps in a vibe.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 17, 2017 3:08:30 GMT -5
huskeric, thank you for taking the time to post this. Super information for anyone getting into this. Well done.
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Wooferhound
Cave Dweller
Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
Posts: 1,423
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Post by Wooferhound on Mar 17, 2017 3:55:19 GMT -5
While my purchases of gear and accessories has grown as fast my interest in this hobby, I don't regret any of the earlier purchases. I ended up with a bunch of smaller unneeded containers that will end up in the kitchen, but all the newer tumblers and other gear are working very well together with the older stuff.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Mar 17, 2017 10:19:41 GMT -5
Start with 60/90, then 120/220, 500, 1000 and then polish. Are you polishing in 5 steps, I was wondering if it would help to add another step? Right now I am going from a week in 600 mesh, straight to polish after that. still haven't been able to produce a wet shine. Wooferhound, in the rotary, I was doing both the 1,000 pre-polish for a week and the polish for at least a few days. I would also try a burnish cycle with ceramics. What materials are you tumbling? There are some that I can't get a polish on to save my life. If you're doing jaspers/agates/pet wood, then you should be able to get a good wet shine on them. I am doing my stones in the rotary for stage 1 and 2, then I am using my Lot-O. Depending on how nice they are out of stage 2, I may run them for a day or so in 120/220, but then I'm running 500, 1000 and then polish. I get a sense from some of the ongoing testing by jamesp, we may see that if you use AO grit, you can really short-circuit some of the stages because of the way that AO breaks down vs. SiC. Good luck!
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Mar 17, 2017 10:40:11 GMT -5
That is a very useful post for someone new. I agree with almost everything. Here are a couple places is disagree a bit: I have a Lortone 33b and a Thumlers A-R2. They both work fine, but I much prefer the Lortone barrel over the Thumlers. Thumlers barrels leak and the lids wear out quickly. I have no experience with the larger Thumlers barrrels. I would never recommend that someone get a single three pound barrel. It's less than twice the money to get a double barrel machine because you're not paying for a second motor. Thanks for writing such an informative article. I agree with you on what you say on both fronts. I haven't had any problems with my Thumler barrels, but I've fried two motors. I can't say Lortone wouldn't have had the same issue, but my Lortone qt 12 has been a champ. My intention was to state that if you can afford it, and you see this being a hobby you're going to stick with for a while, I would recommend the Lortone single- or dual-6lb barrel capability. I sorta waded into the water with two single 3lb tumblers, then a 6, then a 12. In hindsight, I would have gone QT12, QT66 and Lot-O. After that, I would have added another QT66, I think.
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,681
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 17, 2017 10:41:37 GMT -5
I like my Lortone tumblers,no worries,no problems-they are a work horse!!
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Mar 17, 2017 10:46:20 GMT -5
I may get critiqued for suggesting this to a beginner. But am going to stick this out there anyway. One grade of SiC coarse grit of your choice for rotary. One grit, no need for dedicated barrel(s). AO 80 and AO 14,000 for vibe. Two grits, with one clean out between 80 and 14,000. The AO 80 is user friendly in that it delivers a polish in itself and requires no dedicated hopper. I believe this simple formula will produce easy results for a beginner. Providing a successful polish on quartz, agates, woods, and most jaspers. I believe 220-500-1000 steps create a lot of confusion, purchases and errors for beginners. Using 220-500-1000 should be a method adopted as experience is attained. jamesp, your results speak for themselves. Would you do the AO 80 in a Lot-O? I have done a little with 60/90 SiC in there, but not too much. I also use the same barrel for all grits, simply because I only have one. If you run it long enough to break it all down, it shouldn't cause any contamination/scratching issues. I am going to continue down the 220-500-1000 process for now because I have... pounds of it to work through, but I bought some 46 AO and have been running it in my QT12 adding grit once or twice a week for the past three weeks.
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napoleonrags
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2015
Posts: 474
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Post by napoleonrags on Mar 17, 2017 10:48:02 GMT -5
That is a very useful post for someone new. I agree with almost everything. Here are a couple places is disagree a bit: I have a Lortone 33b and a Thumlers A-R2. They both work fine, but I much prefer the Lortone barrel over the Thumlers. Thumlers barrels leak and the lids wear out quickly. I have no experience with the larger Thumlers barrrels. I would never recommend that someone get a single three pound barrel. It's less than twice the money to get a double barrel machine because you're not paying for a second motor. Thanks for writing such an informative article. I agree with you on what you say on both fronts. I haven't had any problems with my Thumler barrels, but I've fried two motors. I can't say Lortone wouldn't have had the same issue, but my Lortone qt 12 has been a champ. My intention was to state that if you can afford it, and you see this being a hobby you're going to stick with for a while, I would recommend the Lortone single- or dual-6lb barrel capability. I sorta waded into the water with two single 3lb tumblers, then a 6, then a 12. In hindsight, I would have gone QT12, QT66 and Lot-O. After that, I would have added another QT66, I think. I've struggled with QT12. I've had it for about a year. Replaced the belt, and I think I need to replace the motor because it gets stuck. I've had a hi-speed "B" which is more efficient and haven't had to replace the engine (quite a few belts though which are cheap).
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,155
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Post by jamesp on Mar 17, 2017 12:38:21 GMT -5
Are you polishing in 5 steps, I was wondering if it would help to add another step? Right now I am going from a week in 600 mesh, straight to polish after that. still haven't been able to produce a wet shine. Wooferhound, in the rotary, I was doing both the 1,000 pre-polish for a week and the polish for at least a few days. I would also try a burnish cycle with ceramics. What materials are you tumbling? There are some that I can't get a polish on to save my life. If you're doing jaspers/agates/pet wood, then you should be able to get a good wet shine on them. I am doing my stones in the rotary for stage 1 and 2, then I am using my Lot-O. Depending on how nice they are out of stage 2, I may run them for a day or so in 120/220, but then I'm running 500, 1000 and then polish. I get a sense from some of the ongoing testing by jamesp, we may see that if you use AO grit, you can really short-circuit some of the stages because of the way that AO breaks down vs. SiC. Good luck! I hope you do not feel that I crashed your thread. I do want to emphasis a simple and cheap method of tumbling huskeric. I am sorta laughing at myself for my past practices using so many steps. The AO 80 was an accident discovery. I would not have said a word had I not tested and proven this method many times and can not seem to mess it up. Have taken it to extremes(AO 22 and AO 46) and still get the same results. And shorten times for the AO 80 step and still gotten a wet shine with AO 14,000. Do coarse shaping in rotary, SiC 30-36-46-60-90, whatever. Then do AO 80 in your Lot-O and do it on the wetter side. Sounds like 3-4 days preps the rocks for polish using Lot-O. Dryer has possibly slowed the polishing in the Lot-O. In my vibe I can hardly tell the difference of the AO 80 finish and the AO 14,000 finish say half the time. Pull and check rocks daily in your Lot-O though, and see or document rate of shine increase in AO 80 step. Maybe you can get it done in 2 days in the Lot-O. My (seemingly aggressive) Vibrasonic has a reflection after 24 hours in AO 80 step. The only rocks I have used AO 80 on is MOHS 7 agate-wood-jasper-chert-coral.
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huskeric
spending too much on rocks
Member since May 2016
Posts: 353
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Post by huskeric on Mar 17, 2017 13:19:42 GMT -5
jamesp, you could NEVER crash my thread. It's a bit of a rabbit trail, but it's in the interest of giving additional information to folks starting out. If they can buy AO 80 and skip 120/220, 500 and 1000, then you've saved them from investing in several pounds of grit that may end up taking up space (and more time).
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Kai
spending too much on rocks
Member since December 2018
Posts: 331
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Post by Kai on Jan 24, 2019 11:44:24 GMT -5
I've got my equipment for a while now, but this thread is nevertheless a great set of instructions and one can learn a lot from it. Thanks everyone who contributed to it!
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Jan 24, 2019 20:29:56 GMT -5
There are many good posts with great recommendations and ideas in this thread.
I'm a true Rockhound and have been for most of my life. I enjoy making cabs and pendants and stones for rings, etc. Doing this requires the same steps on a big cab machine that you use when tumbling. Course grinding takes the most time, polishing goes much faster.
I have a couple of Thumler Tumblers model B, 15 lb heavy duty barrel. They cost a little more than some others but they are robust and require little maintenance other than a few drops of oil on the rollers and motor. The barrels are hexagonal, very well sealed and are big enough to give the rocks a good tumble.
If you divide the cost of the tumbler by the number of pounds of rocks you can tumble with it, the cost of my tumbler comes out to about $15 per lb ($225/15lb). You can use this same formula to see what it costs per pound of rocks tumbled on smaller tumblers. I buy large size bags of the various grits and polishes which also keeps my cost of tumbling down.
I use the ceramic mixed media to move the grit slurry around to cover all the rocks. I'm usually tumbling the many varieties of agate, jasper, wood, and other hard rock. Other Rockhound friends give me their leftover small scraps and end pieces from their rock sawing work. I tumble these and always give them some of the best tumbles back. This keeps my cost of rough down a little bit.
So I hope you enjoy your adventure as much as I have.
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tomk
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2019
Posts: 9
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Post by tomk on Jan 25, 2019 0:30:29 GMT -5
Hello! I am new to rockhounding and processing. This guide and everyone's info are great for beginners like myself.
I have couple questions:
1. Where do you buy the AO #14,000? I see Aluminum Oxide polish but is that same as AO #14,000? The ebay sellers for the AO 80 sells AO 1200 and that's the finest he sells. 2. Should I get AO 60 or AO 80? There is a message that AO 60 may be better?
Thanks!
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gatorflash1
spending too much on rocks
Active in Delaware Mineralogical Society, Cabchon Grinding and Polishing, 2 Thumlers B's and a UV-18
Member since October 2018
Posts: 375
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Post by gatorflash1 on Jan 25, 2019 13:02:32 GMT -5
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tomk
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2019
Posts: 9
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Post by tomk on Jan 25, 2019 16:59:18 GMT -5
Great thanks for the info and links. I found out the AO 14000 is actually 1 or 0.5 micron. This is the item I found that seems to match:
Pro-Polish polishing powder
POL-PRO
Works like Tin Oxide at 1/2 the Price!! Fine graded alumina in the 1/2 micron range. Polishes a wider variety of gemstones than any other polish. Works best in a thin slurry. Try it, you can't help but be pleased with the results.
There are also diamond based but expensive polish very small grit size. I think that's used for spot hand polish.
I just placed an order for lots of stuff including the Lot-O dual from various sources. This hobby is addicting and fascinating.
BTW, I have some nephrite jade pieces I want to polish. For that, I will try the M5 polish. Wish me luck.
Thanks and cheers!
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Post by Starguy on Jan 25, 2019 19:15:17 GMT -5
Many people here have heard me say this. An efficient way to tumble is a 12 lb barrel running coarse grit. A 3 lb barrel for fine through polish. After 3 weeks of fine through polish, the 12 lb barrel has produced enough to start again. Tin oxide, while expensive is the best polish for just about everything.
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tomk
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2019
Posts: 9
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Post by tomk on Jan 25, 2019 20:40:20 GMT -5
According to John Brothers website where I already made my purchase, the Pro Polish works just like tin oxide at half the price. I suppose I can give tin oxide a try after I used up my Pro Polish. Can't wait to get my items so I can start to process my jades, agates, and jaspers.
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Post by Starguy on Jan 25, 2019 20:53:25 GMT -5
According to John Brothers website where I already made my purchase, the Pro Polish works just like tin oxide at half the price. I suppose I can give tin oxide a try after I used up my Pro Polish. Can't wait to get my items so I can start to process my jades, agates, and jaspers. You definitely want to hold off on tin oxide until you have the process figured out and some really nice rocks. It works extremely good but at $25 a pond, you need to be selective.
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tomk
off to a rocking start
Member since January 2019
Posts: 9
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Post by tomk on Jan 25, 2019 22:05:13 GMT -5
According to John Brothers website where I already made my purchase, the Pro Polish works just like tin oxide at half the price. I suppose I can give tin oxide a try after I used up my Pro Polish. Can't wait to get my items so I can start to process my jades, agates, and jaspers. You definitely want to hold off on tin oxide until you have the process figured out and some really nice rocks. It works extremely good but at $25 a pond, you need to be selective. Agreed. I am happy that there are good information to get me started. I'll try other stuff and techniques once I am more comfortable with the entire process. Thanks.
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