Tommy
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Post by Tommy on Jun 16, 2017 11:09:40 GMT -5
Not to speak for griz - but I think that might have just come across wrong. I share his sentiment - if someone came to me and said they had decided against kids for the various reasons - I would feel like thanking them for not feeling obligated to do it and I would support their decision.
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lookatthat
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Whatever there is to be found.
Member since May 2017
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Post by lookatthat on Jun 16, 2017 11:25:36 GMT -5
I think the OP's question was not only legit but important. If you don't have kids, everybody asks you all the time, "When are you going to have kids? don't you want kids?" as though there is something wrong with NOT having kids. I think its about time that people are asking themselves, "Why DO we want kids?" Not that I support abortion. I don't. But it seems that an awful lot of people have kids for selfish reasons, "Oh, 'cause I want a ba-by," as though a child was a Thing you could have, instead of a living human being with its own needs.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 16, 2017 11:47:30 GMT -5
I was just talking with someone about all the reasons NOT to have kids and how it seems most of the people having lots of kids are doing it for all the wrong reasons.... like for more assistance. And, what fantastic5 said about more educated people not having kids is true, too. I see that in my own family. If someone doesn't want kids- all the more power to them. I support that whole heartedly. But, some us want kids for the "right" reasons. Don't confuse us with people who are just plain irresponsible. (Not saying anyone here has, I'm speaking in general.)
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Post by wigglinrocks on Jun 16, 2017 13:26:27 GMT -5
I think the OP's question was not only legit but important. If you don't have kids, everybody asks you all the time, "When are you going to have kids? don't you want kids?" as though there is something wrong with NOT having kids. I think its about time that people are asking themselves, "Why DO we want kids?" Not that I support abortion. I don't. But it seems that an awful lot of people have kids for selfish reasons, "Oh, 'cause I want a ba-by," as though a child was a Thing you could have, instead of a living human being with its own needs. Glad someone posted my feelings .
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Sabre52
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Me and my gal, Rosie
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 16, 2017 14:40:50 GMT -5
Wow guys, thanks for all the interesting answers! Funny but Lookatthat was dead on as to why I was curious and posted the question. Being childless among a group of friends from which only one couple is childless ( He works for NASA and both are very career oriented), we get asked all the time why we have no children. Oddly, I often get the sympathetic looks and impression they think it's because of an inability to procreate and when folks find out that was not the issue, I'm sure we are viewed as a little odd. The folks with huge families seem the most dumbfounded and the most prone towards bombarding us with tales of the joys of raising a huge brood. The best man at my wedding is in that category. His Christmas letter takes several readings to complete. He has a huge family.
let me see if I can respond without pissing off too many folks. *L*. First off, I have no dislike or disrespect for stay at home moms or folks who decide to have families but I must admit, it's always amazed me that under current conditions, it seems folks are having really a lot of kids and as some of you pointed out, to me also, it often seems those less capable of doing a good job of parenting are often having way more kids than those more capable, and for all the wrong reasons. I am however, a "whatever floats your boat" kind of guy and am pro life, so whatever makes folks happy I guess.
Now, having read your responses and based on latent feelings I often get when working with other folks' kids. I do get it. Kids are obviously fun, raising them and teaching them is rewarding and challenging. Successfully raising a fine child is plainly an amazing ego boost for the parents. I can see going wild when a little gal brings home straight A's or your boy gets his degree, becomes successful in business, or scores the winning football goal. It even gives a parent a chance to do better through vicarious living through a child as a surrogate of sorts that can be helped to do better and have more opportunities, than his folks had in life.
However, if I go into biology mode and look at the responses above, I cannot help but note that all the positive values are values to the individual or couple. It makes parents personally feel wonderful to have kids and face the challenges and pleasure of doing so and that's why the choice was made. So I guess the point to be gleaned from all this is the main reason why the planet is doomed to overpopulation is, if the physical act of procreation was not fun enough to make people do it a lot, the mere fact that having kids is, to many, totally awesome is. So, I guess that makes procreation the greatest drug on the face of the Earth and most all of humanity addicts. Not meaning addicts in a bad way, but simply in an incurable way, which keeps to population growing by leaps and bounds.
Just as an addendum, I should mention that one of the most influential books I read when young was "Stand On Zanzibar", a horrendous tale of overpopulation, and one of the movies that affected me most was Soylent Green. As an older guy that used to hunt pheasants on ag land out of his back gate in the SF Bay area in an area that is now wall to wall people and crap low income houses, I have lived long enough to understand the Edward G Robinson character in Soylent Green. As he was being euthanized, he was being allowed to watch a nature film of how the Earth was before human overpopulation destroyed it. Charlton Heston's character sneaked in and got to watch the film about the planet he had never seen and had never known because he grew up in the crappy years of destruction. Heston's character cried not only for the loss of his friend, but also for the natural beauty they all had lost. So maybe the fact that I'm old enough to have seen a lot of natural beauty lost and my science background is why my perspective is a bit different that that of a lot of folks......Mel
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Post by spiceman on Jun 16, 2017 21:11:59 GMT -5
Never had any and never want my own. If I ever decide I want kids I will give a kid a home that needs one already. A smart man- Jamesp The worst thing in this world Is a unwanted kid. Most people are not smart enough to know that.
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Post by coloradocliff on Jun 16, 2017 21:14:37 GMT -5
I was just talking with someone about all the reasons NOT to have kids and how it seems most of the people having lots of kids are doing it for all the wrong reasons.... like for more assistance. And, what fantastic5 said about more educated people not having kids is true, too. I see that in my own family. If someone doesn't want kids- all the more power to them. I support that whole heartedly. But, some us want kids for the "right" reasons. Don't confuse us with people who are just plain irresponsible. (Not saying anyone here has, I'm speaking in general.) PLus 1
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Post by spiceman on Jun 16, 2017 23:33:06 GMT -5
JamesP, have you ever thought of adopting a 54 year old? (Me) I love dogs.(Jax) I will send you more info if needed. :)
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 17, 2017 0:59:11 GMT -5
JamesP, have you ever thought of adopting a 54 year old? (Me) I love dogs.(Jax) I will send you more info if needed. Would I have to share you with the actual JamesP since we are not the same person? Or would we have to get in to a custody battle?
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Post by coloradocliff on Jun 17, 2017 1:19:59 GMT -5
JamesP, have you ever thought of adopting a 54 year old? (Me) I love dogs.(Jax) I will send you more info if needed. James s is the adopter. AKA Vegasjames... Jamesp is the engineer and don't ask him to post pictures of his train. grin You will have to clean your room, make your bed and get good grades in school Dale.
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Post by mohs on Jun 17, 2017 18:17:02 GMT -5
This is really difficult question for me I have a lot to say on the subject Unfortunately it not happy reflections So I try to avoid it
Yet all respect goes to those who adopt or step into a ready made family & add stability That takes a lot of heart...
Ed
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 18:42:02 GMT -5
Mel, you didn't think I had a kid without thought, did you? We had one so as to not add to population growth.
Having a child is the only way most people can leave a mark on the world. Have a child, raise her well, teach her to learn, teach her to think, teach her to lead.
Soon she will be done with that training and off to make her mark. She may or may not reproduce. But I have zero doubt she will make an impression. So when I and her mother are gone, she is a lasting legacy. Some would call it selfish. That's fine. If more people were this kind of selfish society would be a lot better.
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 17, 2017 19:02:20 GMT -5
Mel, you didn't think I had a kid without thought, did you? We had one so as to not add to population growth. Having a child is the only way most people can leave a mark on the world. Have a child, raise her well, teach her to learn, teach her to think, teach her to lead. Soon she will be done with that training and off to make her mark. She may or may not reproduce. But I have zero doubt she will make an impression. So when I and her mother are gone, she is a lasting legacy. Some would call it selfish. That's fine. If more people were this kind of selfish society would be a lot better. The same can be done with an adopted child. Look at these people who were adopted and the greatly put their mark on the world. www.fertilityauthority.com/articles/famous-people-who-are-adopted
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 19:12:40 GMT -5
Mel, you didn't think I had a kid without thought, did you? We had one so as to not add to population growth. Having a child is the only way most people can leave a mark on the world. Have a child, raise her well, teach her to learn, teach her to think, teach her to lead. Soon she will be done with that training and off to make her mark. She may or may not reproduce. But I have zero doubt she will make an impression. So when I and her mother are gone, she is a lasting legacy. Some would call it selfish. That's fine. If more people were this kind of selfish society would be a lot better. The same can be done with an adopted child. Look at these people who were adopted and the greatly put their mark on the world. www.fertilityauthority.com/articles/famous-people-who-are-adoptedI am one of them. Need I say more? Eta Most if not all of those on that list were adopted by grandparents or other close family. That particular situation didnt afford itself to me as I wasnt a grandparent. That could still happen I suppose. As for primary adoption, We were in training. Government makes it very hard to adopt a child in need. Very hard. A year of classes and couseling and then a 5-7 year waiting list was normal 20 years ago. I doubt today its any easier.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 19:16:05 GMT -5
Kind of like a sort of "Biological Immortality". Spread your genes through Time & Space. No different than any other organism. Reproduction required or the species stops. Its instinctual for a species to want to procreate. Hence fantastic5 "biological clock" statement. It is an instinct. One that may be overcome by human intellect. An instinct nonetheless. I applaud those courageous enough to not reproduce. Less competition for my kidlet!
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jun 17, 2017 20:31:25 GMT -5
JamesP, have you ever thought of adopting a 54 year old? (Me) I love dogs.(Jax) I will send you more info if needed. You are old!! I have a spare room, lots of rocks, a welder, tumbler, rockaways and beer. I'll adopt ya dale!
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Post by spiceman on Jun 17, 2017 20:38:57 GMT -5
I have a Ohio Buckeye card, discounts. I can sleep any where anytime. I have narcolepsy. Make the bad stuff work for ya.
On my way. Can't wait.
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Post by spiceman on Jun 17, 2017 20:50:30 GMT -5
JamesP, have you ever thought of adopting a 54 year old? (Me) I love dogs.(Jax) I will send you more info if needed. :) James s is the adopter. AKA Vegasjames... Jamesp is the engineer and don't ask him to post pictures of his train. grin You will have to clean your room, make your bed and get good grades in school Dale.
Stop, stop, stop there are rules. I'm good at sleeping late. I don't eat much, need the lose some weight. I want to get to a lean, mean, 218. I'm close now. Graduminated from high school. HA 19+ years experience as a test engine ear.HA
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Post by coloradocliff on Jun 17, 2017 21:02:05 GMT -5
James s is the adopter. AKA Vegasjames... Jamesp is the engineer and don't ask him to post pictures of his train. grin You will have to clean your room, make your bed and get good grades in school Dale.
Stop, stop, stop there are rules. I'm good at sleeping late. I don't eat much, need the lose some weight. I want to get to a lean, mean, 218. I'm close now. Graduminated from high school. HA 19+ years experience as a test engine ear.HA Quietly slipping out while the new adoptee is asleep. Locking door, running to the car, digging out a road map of Canada, not looking back. Good luck Son !!hehehehe
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 17, 2017 22:58:03 GMT -5
JamesP, have you ever thought of adopting a 54 year old? (Me) I love dogs.(Jax) I will send you more info if needed. You are old!! I have a spare room, lots of rocks, a welder, tumbler, rockaways and beer. I'll adopt ya dale! That is a relief. I already adopted a handful when I adopted my little girl Jax.
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