Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 15, 2017 13:10:23 GMT -5
Howdy folks,
Since the overpopulation question has popped up a few times lately, it's made me very curious on the question of kids. Was just wondering since we have a good sample of folks here, just exactly why do folks have kids? When my wife and I considered it, we ruled it out at a very early stage in our marriage for many reasons. 1. Kids now days can't be depended upon to take care of you when you are old. Seems more and more old folks have to take care of kids forever so the 18 year parasite turns into a lifetime commitment. 2. We weren't farmers so did not need cheap labor. 3. We both came from poor backgrounds and did not want to stay that way. We both wanted educations and careers. 4. If we wanted unconditional love, we got a dog and a noisy house, we got parrots. And 5. We felt no need to pass on our genetics.
So for all you out there with kiddies in these days of rampant population growth and human destruction of the environment, just curious, for enlightenment, why did you choose to have kids?.....Mel
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grizman
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since July 2011
Posts: 878
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Post by grizman on Jun 15, 2017 14:29:57 GMT -5
The fact that you even have to ask that questions says a lot. Thanks for not having children. Kids deserve understanding parents.
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Post by captbob on Jun 15, 2017 16:46:01 GMT -5
That was rather rude griz. I think he asked a valid question. Not a question I would have asked, but that's because frankly I don't care. If one is curious about something, why not ask? And, having met both Mel and his lovely wife, I'm sure they would have made fantastic parents. The fact that they decided not to go down that road was entirely their choice and does not indicate any lack of "understanding", compassion or ability. Kinda decision takes a LOT of thought. At least it should! oops! isn't a reason for having children. We all know what causes them. Mel, like you and Sharon, I also decided not to procreate. Made that decision way before I met the wife unit. So that narrowed down the hunt considerably! (not that I was ever hunting for a wife!) Do I ever regret that decision? Not seriously and never for long. I had some of Mel's reasons and several different ones of my own. Overall, good call. Although I've been told countless times what a good father I would have made, that's not the path I chose. Could I have done it? Sure. I've seen folks MUCH less capable than I manage it. To those that had them and reared them properly, to be well mannered and self sufficient, good on ya. To those that gave us another generation of - trailer trash (that doesn't have anything to do with living in a trailer!), .gov teat suckers, hooligans, safe space needers, can't live 5 minutes without a cell phone whiners, instant gratification requiring, disrespectful, --- (hell, I could play this game all day!) anyway... thanks a lot. To each their own.
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Post by parfive on Jun 15, 2017 16:49:26 GMT -5
MN man accused of rubbing hot sauce on 2-month-old
A Moorhead man is accused of rubbing hot sauce and cayenne pepper in the eyes of his 2-month-old daughter and keeping her from breathing until she turned blue.
On Wednesday, May 31st, the Moorhead Police Department was called to Essentia Health in Fargo for a case of suspected child abuse. A two-month old baby had been taken to the emergency room by her mother.
Police say the baby had dark purple bruising covering both her eyes, a large area of red coloration on her back, small purple bruising on the left shoulder and a small red mark on the baby's chest below the chin.
The baby's mother told police that the child was in her father's, Shawn Michael Foltz's care the night on May 30th. Around 7:30 Tuesday night, the mother received a text message from Foltz with a picture of the baby. The picture showed the baby had red, swollen eyes and was foaming at the mouth. Court documents say that Foltz told the mother that the baby didn't look as bad as what the pictures looked and that the baby was fine.
Foltz told police that he was trying to feed the baby but she was moving around fussing and he was having a hard time getting the bib under the baby's chin so he put all of his fingers on her chest and pushed down hard which caused red marks on the baby's chest. He also told police that when he was trying to feed the baby and the bottle of milk spilled onto a towel. Foltz became frustrated and told police he used the towel to "snap" the baby five times in her face. Foltz told police that he originally blamed his son because he felt his wife would leave him for what he had done to the baby.
Foltz also told police that he had been doing things to the baby for the past month in a half such as putting hot sauce and cayenne pepper in her mouth, nose and eyes. He would also pinch the baby behind her legs and feet while he was changing her in order to get her to cry. Foltz told police he would also pinch her nose and hold her mouth closed, blocking her airway. Court documents say Foltz threw a small firework at the baby's face and head while his three year old son was in the room. Foltz told police while at work her would think of ways to harm the baby.
Foltz is facing charges including 3rd degree assault, neglect of endangerment of a child and malicious punishment of a child.
www.valleynewslive.com/content/news/MN-man-accused-of-rubbing-hot-sauce-on-2-month-old-427982453.html
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 15, 2017 17:16:58 GMT -5
Griz: Not surprised that you cannot give a reason. Most folks with kids it seems have trouble with the question and answer something like I've always wanted them, I think it's fun or some religious answer ( fruitful and multiply) In light of the world's condition now, I was actually curious and that's why I asked. No need to be an asshole with your reply. Hope you are more polite and understanding with your kids if you have any.
I work with other peoples kids at the horse stables all the time. Did pony rides for the little'uns last Saturday in fact, and take the older kids out horseback and teach them about riding all the time. The wife unit works with kids at our local nature center. Both of us worked with kids at our Raptor Center shows. We both like "other peoples kids" well enough, just didn't feel comfortable bringing our own into the world.
If you can't think of a good reason or don't want to give one then fine, don't bother to reply or just say so and don't get your panties in a twist....Mel
PS: Rich WTF does your post have to do with my question?
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Post by adam on Jun 15, 2017 18:02:14 GMT -5
Griz: Not surprised that you cannot give a reason. Most folks with kids it seems have trouble with the question and answer something like I've always wanted them, I think it's fun or some religious answer ( fruitful and multiply) In light of the world's condition now, I was actually curious and that's why I asked. No need to be an asshole with your reply. Hope you are more polite and understanding with your kids if you have any. I work with other peoples kids at the horse stables all the time. Did pony rides for the little'uns last Saturday in fact, and take the older kids out horseback and teach them about riding all the time. The wife unit works with kids at our local nature center. Both of us worked with kids at our Raptor Center shows. We both like "other peoples kids" well enough, just didn't feel comfortable bringing our own into the world. If you can't think of a good reason or don't want to give one then fine, don't bother to reply or just say so and don't get your panties in a twist....Mel PS: Rich WTF does your post have to do with my question? That last sentence was golden.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 15, 2017 18:19:42 GMT -5
I see where Griz is coming from. Now a days choosing to have kids, or worse yet to be a stay at home mom (or dad) brings a pox on you. As a parent and grandparent, I have run into lots of attitude, so I think it is natural to be somewhat defensive. I'm not saying you have an attitude, Mel, but honestly, you do have a bias against having kids and probably have less respect for people who do- on some level, conscious or not. But, I think you have asked a pertinent question. So, I'll try to answer as honestly as possible. I may not have the right reasons, but they are my reasons. I have never regretted having kids. I was raised in a kinda big family. My parents had four kids. My mother was a very good mother. She was also old fashioned. I was raised to be a good wife and mother one day. That is not so weird or uncommon. Most girls of my generation and before were raised similarly. I wanted to be a good mother. I wanted a happy home and the white picket fence. I wanted to live the American Dream. It never occurred to me NOT to have kids. As it turned out, I got pregnant young. I refused an abortion, grew up quick and became a good mother. The marriage that was supposed to happen, didn't. But, I never regretted keeping my son. Being a mother makes me happy. Weird as this may sound, I always wanted to teach. I mean, I knew this from an early age. Having a kid gave me the opportunity to teach and to mold a human being. I have raised all of my kids to be good people. I don't give 2 flying shits if they ever make a ton of money. I have always wanted to raise good, caring, giving, open minded, intelligent, honest, hard working, responsible people. And I did. 6 years after my son was born. I got married. My husband wanted a kid of his own. We wanted a family. I had a daughter. After she was born, I did my presurgery bloodwork before having my tubes tied only to find out, on Valentine's day, that I was pregnant. I shouldn't have been, but less than 2 months after my first daughter was born, I was pregnant again. The doctor called me at home and intimated that I could have an abortion. I could no more murder my unborn child as my living child. So, now I have 3 kids. It was hard and life was full hard knocks. My marriage crumbled after I did my best to save it. I remarried on the rebound for a year and later met the man of my dreams, who never wanted kids of his own. My kids have kept me sane and made me crazy. As cliche as this sounds- they make me whole. They keep me honest. They make me a better person. I see me in them and I see their fathers and I see the spark that is their own. I am proud of my kids. They aren't perfect by any measure, but they are good people- not even just deep down. I consider myself a successful mother. Having kids means even more the older you get. As you watch them grow you understand yourself more. My mother is passed, but everytime I look at my one daughter, I am reminded of my mother and that brings me comfort. My son is like my dad, who is also gone. Children bring continuity. They challenge me, too. My kids teach me. My kids test the resolve of my beliefs in many things. My kids and I are close. They can talk to me and I can talk to them like no one except for my husband. I am never lonely, I am never alone. Life is never dull. A mothers job is never done. Having kids has enriched my life in a way nothing else could. I wouldn't change it for the world. Yes, we live in terrible times in a challenging world, but thanks to me, my kids are up to it. (I take pride in my work. ) They know how to do the right thing. I have not missed out on anything, either. I went to college, I broke barriers in a man's job. I do what I love and I do what I want. I am a whole modern woman in every respect. I'm sure I left out lots. And after that ramble- don't even get me started on my grandkids. LOL! ETA- Today is my grandson's 18th birthday. Any of you would be proud to know him. Hes a really great young man.
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Sabre52
Cave Dweller
Me and my gal, Rosie
Member since August 2005
Posts: 20,466
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Post by Sabre52 on Jun 15, 2017 19:11:00 GMT -5
Very interesting response Tela. Thanks so much for your reply. I especially liked the part where you said having kids makes you happy. IMHO, being happy and doing things that make one happy and fulfilled are a very important part of living a satisfying life. *S*. The part I hadn't really thought of but which is really interesting, was your comment about loving to teach. I can certainly understand that as I love to work with and teach "other people's kids" *S* too. Passing knowledge on to eager young minds is super fun and I almost feel it is a survival drive bred into us by long generations of folks over thousands of years. Sort of passing on necessary survival information by the use of oral traditions. It is very satisfying to show a youngster a new skill or pass on some bit of a life lesson that will serve them in good stead. And hey, that was a good ramble. Sounds like you are a swell mom....Mel
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Post by Rockoonz on Jun 15, 2017 19:22:07 GMT -5
Tela rockjunquie , I think you get it. I would never say it the way Griz did, but I agree that in many cases the fact that a person doesn't want kids is a good indication that they shouldn't have them. With that said, almost all the childless people I know are people who have been great mentors for other peoples kids, as I'm sure you are with your pebble pups, Mel. Kids give way more than they take IMO. If it ever comes down to it I'm positive they will make sure I'm cared for when I'm old, but that's not what I mean. Parenting brings an aspect of maturity that you will never get anywhere else, and never understand if you don't have it. Avoidance of pain is no longer an option once you're a parent. Self sacrifice is not optional, and nobody ever realizes what a sense of purpose it brings till they experience it. For folks like me, a late stage boomer from the "ME" generation, parenthood is an introduction to the fact that the world doesn't end at the tip of my nose. We talk a lot about those millenials because we forget what we were like. Edit: Grandchildren are amazing, my oldest just turned 12 in April
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Post by parfive on Jun 15, 2017 20:45:24 GMT -5
WTF does your post have to do with my question?
Nada. Just a reaction to Griz: Kids deserve understanding parents.
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Post by spiceman on Jun 15, 2017 21:08:36 GMT -5
My reason for kids is short. I love kids. Not to keep care of me when I'm old. When they are young they are happy to see you anytime. When they get older you can set and talk and have a beer with your kids. Nothing better in life than having a beer with your kids.
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Post by coloradocliff on Jun 15, 2017 21:09:59 GMT -5
That's really awesome Dale..
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 15, 2017 21:20:55 GMT -5
Never had any and never want my own. If I ever decide I want kids I will give a kid a home that needs one already.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Jun 16, 2017 0:07:10 GMT -5
Never had any and never want my own. If I ever decide I want kids I will give a kid a home that needs one already. Plus 1. Sort of like getting a rescue or pound dog, instead of encouraging people to breed more of them. already too many needing good homes. Me neither, never wanted them. No regrets.
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Post by vegasjames on Jun 16, 2017 2:55:29 GMT -5
Never had any and never want my own. If I ever decide I want kids I will give a kid a home that needs one already. Plus 1. Sort of like getting a rescue or pound dog, instead of encouraging people to breed more of them. already too many needing good homes. Me neither, never wanted them. No regrets. Exactly. In my opinion the only reason someone would insist on propagating their own genes over considering adoption is conceit.
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 16, 2017 6:17:45 GMT -5
I understand about not wanting any of your own kids because of all the kids that need families. My husband is the same way. He never wanted any of his own. He grew up in a family that fostered kids. His parents took in the kids that were most difficult to place. Mostly kids with handicaps of one kind or another. So, he was raised with a first hand knowledge of kids needing a family of their own. They ended up adopting one of the kids.
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Post by fantastic5 on Jun 16, 2017 8:05:02 GMT -5
I was an only child in an abusive home. My mother was wonderful, but my step father, not so much. So I never planned on having kids. Didn't see the reason to. A lot of the reasons Sabre52 cited. Finished college, traveled abroad, got a career, got married and we played hard for about 8 years. Then my mindset changed. I don't know if it was my 'biological clock'? But I suddenly wanted kids. Yes plural. I was an only child and always thought life would be better with a sibling, so I wanted two. Unfortunately, that wasn't in my cards. I miscarried my daughter's twin early in the pregnancy, almost lost her on 3 different occasions. Had more than one recommendation to end the pregnancy to save my own life. Spent weeks at a time in the hospital. And then due to a very rare complications had an emergency hysterectomy not long after she was born. Surgeon told me that I had a 50/50 chance of surviving that surgery. But I never even considered the possibility of not raising my daughter. Told the surgeon so. Spent another week in the hospital that time too. My daughter is amazing. She just turned 20. Genius level IQ (runs on her fathers side of the family, multiple PHDs, research and college professors). She is pre-med, working part time at the hospital where I work and doing a full time cancer genetics research internship this summer. Has her own apartment, didn't like the dorms. Said the kids at the dorms were too immature. She is working an averaging 60-70 hours a week this summer. Last year identified an unknown species of gastropod on an honors biology Caribbean school trip, named it after her recently deceased grandfather (professor, previous NASA researcher and mentor) and was scientifically published as a result. On the flip side, my second husband had adopted his first wife's two children. So when we got married he came to my daughter and I with 3 kids (one his and two adopted). Boy was that a shock. His son is still at home, in high school, and doing well, but the two adopted girls have been disappointments. Drugs, criminal records, stealing from us. I don't know if this speaks to the whole nature -vs- nurture argument. Kids are difficult. Not for everyone. Require sacrifice to do it right. But my daughter and stepson have been the highlights of my life. And I have lived a grand life, so that bar is pretty damn high. I'm not a soccer mom, never will be. Dragged my kids everywhere with me. Backpacking, kayaking, rock collecting, caving. I think that is what made them so special. No participation trophies at my house. Work for what you get. I tell my kids to live their lives first, before they should even consider children. Why? Kids are hard and not for everyone! I've told them that I am a better parent BECAUSE I waited till my 30's. On a purely scientific note (and not a reason to procreate). We really are screwing up the human race. On average, the higher the education level, the fewer kids a family has. In the past I've worked for the hospital in an indigent/charity setting. Not uncommon to have families with 8, 9, 10 kids. All of them special needs. Parents the same. Darwin anyone? Survival of the fittest anyone? We are diluting the gene pool. My favorite bumper sticker of all times:
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zekesman
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2016
Posts: 637
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Post by zekesman on Jun 16, 2017 8:57:00 GMT -5
When I was young, and did not think much for my self, I was religious. So having kids kind of went with the tribal influence. I only wanted one because I felt this would not burden the planet, one replacing two. We did end up having two due to my wifes desires to have lots. They both turned out great. I do not take alot of credit for this as I feel it is somewhat luck of the draw. I am a lefty as you all know. I see that humans are going to pollute and over populate the planet. However I don't see it as the end of the planet, just the end of humanity. Both of my girls say they will never have children. Vic
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,687
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Post by Fossilman on Jun 16, 2017 9:34:40 GMT -5
We have eight kids and 12 grandkids (so far)... I guess I loves raising and teaching kids.....They all turned out pretty good..Chef,Nurse,Oilfields,Photographer,Federal Officer,Home makers..... As for someone taking care of the elderly,we don't want to burden our kids with that responsibility....Just put us into a good retirement home when the time comes and be graceful that we lived that long....
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Post by rockjunquie on Jun 16, 2017 10:38:48 GMT -5
We have eight kids and 12 grandkids (so far)... I guess I loves raising and teaching kids.....They all turned out pretty good..Chef,Nurse,Oilfields,Photographer,Federal Officer,Home makers..... As for someone taking care of the elderly,we don't want to burden our kids with that responsibility....Just put us into a good retirement home when the time comes and be graceful that we lived that long.... 8? Wow! You had a a busy home. Good for you!
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