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Post by tims on Jul 26, 2017 15:32:59 GMT -5
Cut up some clinker from Thunder Basin NG in Wyoming and threw a handful in with last tumble. The whole batch was mediocre at best but was surprised the clinker survived and actually took a little shine. Pardon the towel lint
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Post by orrum on Jul 26, 2017 16:05:47 GMT -5
Nice tumbles, interesting material.
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Post by MrMike on Jul 26, 2017 16:56:31 GMT -5
Cool looking stuff, looks like it has hematite bands. You're certain it's clinker?
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,687
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Post by Fossilman on Jul 26, 2017 17:44:41 GMT -5
Nice rolls.........
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Post by tims on Jul 26, 2017 20:18:20 GMT -5
Cool looking stuff, looks like it has hematite bands. You're certain it's clinker? Yeah, at least as sure as i am about any of my rock IDs Natural clinker from exposed coal deposits that were ignited. Thunder Basin is also full of iron concretions, so it seems plausible that local iron / hematite would bake in. Hard to imagine a natural fire burning 3000 degrees to melt iron but industrial "clinkering temperature" is 2500+ so i guess it can happen. Thunder Basin NG is near the center of the Powder River Basin, which according to the WSGS: "has over 1,500 square miles of clinker rock. This is a layer of reddish rock formed by baking of sediments above burned coal deposits. Historically coal deposits exposed at the surface were ignited by lightening strikes or brush fires and burned naturally underground and near the surface for a period of hundreds of years. Recent age-dating suggests that these beds are between 1.1 Ma to 10 ka in age (Heffern and others, 2007). These clinker beds are up to 180 feet thick." www.wsgs.wyo.gov/energy/coal-prbIf you think my ID is wrong please let me know so i can do some more research. And thanks for pointing out the hematite; i knew it looked metallic but didn't consider it actually could be iron.
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Post by MrMike on Jul 26, 2017 20:29:57 GMT -5
Learned something new, never heard of natural clinker, great info tims, thanks. They need to give it a cooler name though.
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Post by tims on Jul 26, 2017 20:33:12 GMT -5
Here's the clinker rough I picked up on that outing with the one I cut and rolled circled:
There was another little piece too but I don't recognize the rough in my before pic. This is more stuff from that area including an ugly iron concretion I rolled out of curiosity that looks like maybe hematite:
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Post by tims on Jul 26, 2017 20:35:26 GMT -5
Learned something new, never heard of natural clinker, great info tims , thanks. They need to give it a cooler name though. Why wait for "them"? Now accepting suggestions
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Post by spiceman on Jul 26, 2017 21:05:41 GMT -5
Having iron concrections, would that make it magnetic? I don't know. I've never dealt with or seen that material.
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Post by wigglinrocks on Jul 26, 2017 21:11:55 GMT -5
Cool looking stuff . Only other clinkers I ever heard of form in wood stoves when burning certain woods , not as nice as these though .
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Post by tims on Jul 26, 2017 23:21:43 GMT -5
Having iron concrections, would that make it magnetic? I don't know. I've never dealt with or seen that material. Hadn't thought of it, but yes it's attracted strongly by a magnet. Nice call sir.
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Post by coloradocliff on Jul 26, 2017 23:48:03 GMT -5
Here's the clinker rough I picked up on that outing with the one I cut and rolled circled:
There was another little piece too but I don't recognize the rough in my before pic. This is more stuff from that area including an ugly iron concretion I rolled out of curiosity that looks like maybe hematite: PLUS 1 interesting.. Like the way you are approaching the discovery, identification and the working with the material. How hard does it appear to be? You think that the hardness is as variable as the colors and the ability to take a polishing? Not sure I would consider tha pattern a banding? More opinions friends? HAve you googled the Clinker name with forum and see what old info you might learn from other interested people over the years and in different forums?
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Post by tims on Jul 27, 2017 0:29:01 GMT -5
Here's the clinker rough I picked up on that outing with the one I cut and rolled circled: PLUS 1 interesting.. Like the way you are approaching the discovery, identification and the working with the material. How hard does it appear to be? You think that the hardness is as variable as the colors and the ability to take a polishing? Not sure I would consider tha pattern a banding? More opinions friends? HAve you googled the Clinker name with forum and see what old info you might learn from other interested people over the years and in different forums?
The average hardness on this i'd guess around 6, won't scratch with a nail. One piece today scratched the chert nodule of a teepee canyon agate, the next piece crumbled. The hardness probably does vary with color and whatever other variables it underwent while it was baking. I was very dubious about rolling it but am adding a handful to my next batch since this piece survived so well.
I checked the site and found a few mentions, very noticeably ingawh 's post on porcelanite from Montana: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/72646/porcelanite-new-tumble-obsession?page=1
She has some really nice material in that thread, and did mention the variable hardness and associated challenges in getting a shine. My stuff comes from predominantly shale areas; that Montana clay looks to cook up much cleaner and with more consistent color. The clinker here is mostly black / red / yellow / gray / brown, and it's rare to find a piece with more than 2 or 3 of those colors in the mix.
Up til now i'd always considered this just an ornamental rock since the rough is colorful but not terribly promising to look at. Here's some yard ornaments that might now meet the saw:
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Post by coloradocliff on Jul 27, 2017 1:03:53 GMT -5
PLUS 1 interesting.. Like the way you are approaching the discovery, identification and the working with the material. How hard does it appear to be? You think that the hardness is as variable as the colors and the ability to take a polishing? Not sure I would consider tha pattern a banding? More opinions friends? HAve you googled the Clinker name with forum and see what old info you might learn from other interested people over the years and in different forums?
The average hardness on this i'd guess around 6, won't scratch with a nail. One piece today scratched the chert nodule of a teepee canyon agate, the next piece crumbled. The hardness probably does vary with color and whatever other variables it underwent while it was baking. I was very dubious about rolling it but am adding a handful to my next batch since this piece survived so well.
I checked the site and found a few mentions, very noticeably ingawh 's post on porcelanite from Montana: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/72646/porcelanite-new-tumble-obsession?page=1
She has some really nice material in that thread, and did mention the variable hardness and associated challenges in getting a shine. My stuff comes from predominantly shale areas; that Montana clay looks to cook up much cleaner and with more consistent color. The clinker here is mostly black / red / yellow / gray / brown, and it's rare to find a piece with more than 2 or 3 of those colors in the mix.
Up til now i'd always considered this just an ornamental rock since the rough is colorful but not terribly promising to look at. Here's some yard ornaments that might now meet the saw:
Good morning quartz Did you ever get any of that heat effected rock from Malheur to try like tims is working on here? We know you are a good tumbler and a large quantity roller so your two bits thrown in could be worth a lot more. This stuff seems to be the same material that you commented on in a thread that tims mentioned earlier. tims. Plus one on your getting the material identified. I cant see anything else it could be. Any rhyme or reason to the different colors or types to sort and classify by color etc? You got it figured out pretty good from the old information. jamesp has been heat treating rock and corals for a while in a kiln and might give insight to how heat has effected your different colors in the past and how you might be able to use heat to harden or to stabilize the material to improve the consistency. You probably have already thought about that. You sure have been smart on how you have been doing the leg work and getting your rth friends involved. Cliff Sure is some attractive yard rock you been gathering. Be interesting to see more of it handled and processed.
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Post by orrum on Jul 27, 2017 6:11:00 GMT -5
H otta love those self collecteds!
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Post by fantastic5 on Jul 27, 2017 6:48:38 GMT -5
I've never heard of clinkers before. Thanks for the information, and I really like the wrap you showed on the other thread too. I've heard that the coal seam fires, once ignited tend to burn for years. There is one burning under a Pennsylvania town since the 60's.
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Post by coloradocliff on Jul 27, 2017 9:01:39 GMT -5
I've never heard of clinkers before. Thanks for the information, and I really like the wrap you showed on the other thread too. I've heard that the coal seam fires, once ignited tend to burn for years. There is one burning under a Pennsylvania town since the 60's. Plus 1.. Never heard the term clinker before either. .. Knew about the ignited coal seam in Penn but had forgotten where it was. Pretty interesting material. Natural too.
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minerken
Cave Dweller
Member since August 2013
Posts: 466
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Post by minerken on Jul 27, 2017 10:44:53 GMT -5
some may know it as scoria I have heard it referred to but in fact it's true name is clinker as scoria is related to vesicular types of volcanic rocks. Hundres of miles of road in the Dakota's, Montana and Wyoming are made from it.
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wampidytoo
has rocks in the head
Add 5016 to my post count.
Member since June 2013
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Post by wampidytoo on Jul 27, 2017 11:32:24 GMT -5
I spent several years in Colstrip Montana working on a coal fired power plant. There is red rock and gravel everywhere there and we called it scoria (http://geology.com/rocks/scoria.shtml). After reading about scoria it looks like we were wrong because even though they are very similar they are formed in different ways. Scoria is of a volcanic form and the stuff in Colstrip was formed by the burning coal under ground. Moved to Roundup Montana which is another coal area and I had a coal stoker to heat the house. The stuff I pulled out of the furnace was called clinkers. Did a clinker search and it brought up a coal article that had nothing to do with clinkers. Clinkers 1.5, scoria 0. Jim Edited to say: minerken blew me out of the water while I was researching. hahaha Maybe that is why I hate researching, someone with a brain comes along and punches me out.
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
Posts: 3,341
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Post by quartz on Jul 27, 2017 22:52:36 GMT -5
coloradocliff, the mtl. we found near Malheur Lake was interesting to look at but so porous it wouldn't be anything other than yard debris. amygdule, looks like you have some sawmill experience too, the clinkers from the boilers were my first thought on this thread.
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