jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2017 10:41:03 GMT -5
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Post by MrMike on Nov 4, 2017 14:22:51 GMT -5
jamesp Set up like a Viking or Thumlers?
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Deleted
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Member since January 1970
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 14:27:06 GMT -5
$40 car battery charger powers the 12volt nicely
ETA
That 12 volt is new! And rpm will be lower due to load. Amps too.
Also a difficult build with o-ring mount. I guess a bit of unistrut and 4" pipe clamps will mount it too
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Post by MrP on Nov 4, 2017 15:02:48 GMT -5
jamesp I have one of these but I haven't used it too much because I can't find the rubber liners for it. I tried to make one out of rubber roofing and it did last for a little while but they are a pain to make. It is an aluminum tub so I don't want to use it without a liner. I am going to get Smooth-On because I have used that in a tub I made for the Viking tumbler. Anyway the reason I bring this up is I really like the way it worked. Hanging verse balancing I think is an easier idea because you will not have to find a balance point. When I made my first tub for my Viking I had to move my tub to a point that I didn't think was center but it ended up working better with the tub just a bit more to the back side. Just an idea............................MrP
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2017 15:04:05 GMT -5
jamesp Set up like a Viking or Thumlers? Already welded this rig up Mike. It is motor ready. 2 inch sheave on the separate counterbalance shaft just like the Vibrasonic. I could put a 6 inch pulley on a 1725 RPM motor and get 3 X 1725 RPM = 5175 RPM at the counterbalance shaft. Would prefer to have a 5000 RPM motor though. I think it would be smoother than doing the up-ratio thru pulleys. This rig may not have stiff enough springs for such a high vibration rate. Would turn the amount of counterbalance way down to just barely out-of-balance for high speed rotation. I temporarily hooked it up to a 1025 RPM motor and it had fine rolling action. It is oversized for easy access to install 'some' motor. Probably needs a redesign for high speed. May just do a vibrating plate type config. Will post if going that way.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2017 15:07:48 GMT -5
$40 car battery charger powers the 12volt nicely ETA That 12 volt is new! And rpm will be lower due to load. Amps too. Also a difficult build with o-ring mount. I guess a bit of unistrut and 4" pipe clamps will mount it too Yes, a battery charger puts out about 15 volts I believe. It would do the job well. The motor would have to be sized. Surplus Center has a constantly changing inventory, and I see them at my junkyards. Have not considered the mounting issues, figured I could concoct some way.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 15:18:36 GMT -5
$40 car battery charger powers the 12volt nicely ETA That 12 volt is new! And rpm will be lower due to load. Amps too. Also a difficult build with o-ring mount. I guess a bit of unistrut and 4" pipe clamps will mount it too Yes, a battery charger puts out about 15 volts I believe. It would do the job well. The motor would have to be sized. Surplus Center has a constantly changing inventory, and I see them at my junkyards. Have not considered the mounting issues, figured I could concoct some way. Yeah, that one in your post is new! The unistrut pipe clamp setup would hold it. It's 4.3" diameter barrel. We have zero doubt you would solve any mount problem. Your resources are vast and is only matched by your creativity.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 15:21:37 GMT -5
MrP did you build a copper vibe? I'm thinking paint on truck bed liner would be a good liner. Just recoat when it gets thin
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2017 15:22:16 GMT -5
jamesp I have one of these but I haven't used it too much because I can't find the rubber liners for it. I tried to make one out of rubber roofing and it did last for a little while but they are a pain to make. It is an aluminum tub so I don't want to use it without a liner. I am going to get Smooth-On because I have used that in a tub I made for the Viking tumbler. Anyway the reason I bring this up is I really like the way it worked. Hanging verse balancing I think is an easier idea because you will not have to find a balance point. When I made my first tub for my Viking I had to move my tub to a point that I didn't think was center but it ended up working better with the tub just a bit more to the back side. Just an idea............................MrP
The problem with Vibrasonic, the one you posted above, Lot-O, UV-10/18 etc is that technically competent peoples were involved and probably used sophisticated vibration analysis equipment to tune them. You mention placement. On this one I drilled holes so I could adjust the hopper to countershaft distance. For fear that I would not get the (dis)placement correct. That was a big concern. The machine you posted above has some radical cool ideas built into it. Seems that way anyway. I hope you share a video of it running one day. I kinda copied the large frame when I built mine. You posted that machine back then. Impressive vibe that one. In mint condition too. I assume the counterbalance shaft is under the pan that the hopper sits on. Note the holes to adjust displacement distance Michael. Make sense ? : with springs added:
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 4, 2017 15:40:11 GMT -5
MrP, my friend has the same vib tumbler as you posted in the picture. Opened it the last time there and it had a liner. It looks to be about a 20 lb capacity barrel It appears I will be adding another machine to my collection.
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Post by MrP on Nov 4, 2017 15:50:14 GMT -5
jamesp Set up like a Viking or Thumlers? Already welded this rig up Mike. It is motor ready. 2 inch sheave on the separate counterbalance shaft just like the Vibrasonic. I could put a 6 inch pulley on a 1725 RPM motor and get 3 X 1725 RPM = 5175 RPM at the counterbalance shaft. Would prefer to have a 5000 RPM motor though. I think it would be smoother than doing the up-ratio thru pulleys. This rig may not have stiff enough springs for such a high vibration rate. Would turn the amount of counterbalance way down to just barely out-of-balance for high speed rotation. I temporarily hooked it up to a 1025 RPM motor and it had fine rolling action. It is oversized for easy access to install 'some' motor. Probably needs a redesign for high speed. May just do a vibrating plate type config. Will post if going that way. I guess now that you say that I do remember you saying you were welding it up. Well how about for the next one? ..............................MrP
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Post by MrP on Nov 4, 2017 15:52:58 GMT -5
MrP, my friend has the same vib tumbler as you posted in the picture. Opened it the last time there and it had a liner. It looks to be about a 20 lb capacity barrel It appears I will be adding another machine to my collection. Mine has a liner also but it is not that heavy duty so I don't want to tear it up that is why I am try to figure out something else.....................MrP
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Nov 4, 2017 16:20:09 GMT -5
jamesp maybe try the urethane "rubbers" used in skateboard truck to dampen vibration.... Just an idea
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Post by HankRocks on Nov 4, 2017 16:22:57 GMT -5
Would only use it for Polishing so wear on the liner would be limited. When I looked inside it did have some SiC residue at the bottom from previous use.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 4, 2017 17:11:07 GMT -5
jamesp maybe try the urethane "rubbers" used in skateboard truck to dampen vibration.... Just an idea Considering a real simple 1/8" steel sheet with the counter balance bolted to the sheet. sheet welded to a frame around the perimeter with legs.. Then the hopper fastened to the top of the sheet metal. It may be noisy but can be put over in the plant area far from the house. call it a crude low frequency chladni plate using a driven counterbalance shaft
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quartz
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breakin' rocks in the hot sun
Member since February 2010
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Post by quartz on Nov 4, 2017 21:56:12 GMT -5
That thinking sounds good, but if I could come up w/DC drive, I'd try real hard to also have a speed control on it.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 5, 2017 4:07:47 GMT -5
That thinking sounds good, but if I could come up w/DC drive, I'd try real hard to also have a speed control on it. Sure would be a luxury to have a speed control. Speed plays major role. didn't your homemade have additional adjustments ? most vibration systems have mass, damping, spring and disturbance. vibe tumblers have a fixed mass, no damping, and usually a fixed spring. the only adjustment left is disturbance which is either controlled by speed control and/or counterweight adjustment. Not sure if my thought of increasing speed is a good thing. the more reversals per minute the faster the rocks slap together. slower may be the ticket. grrr Just because a 10,000 RPM counterbalance(for example) is utilized there is no guarantee that the hopper will react that fast. It is more likely the hopper is not going vibrate at 10,000 unless spring is very rigid. It may vibrate at a 5000 or 2500 or 1250. It will most likely vibrate at some number that will divide into 10,000. wish I had a vibration meter to read the Vibrasonic hopper vibration. The countershaft is doing about motor speed. Not sure if hopper vibrating at motor speed. Hand held vibration meter reads 600/min to much higher for $130. Reads displacement too. www.ebay.com/itm/Handheld-Vibration-Meter-Vibrometer-Acceleration-Velocity-Displace-Tester-63A/282687637945?hash=item41d17f09b9:g:mZIAAOSwNSxVW0I2
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 5, 2017 5:33:06 GMT -5
Or. Playing devil's advocate for finishing soft rocks in a vibe.
The opposite of high speed is low speed. Just enough vibrations to get the rocks in a rolling movement.
Instead of a typical factory vibe motor turning 3450 RPM use a 1725 RPM motor and cut the commonly used factory made vibe speed in half. Move countershaft to optimum location to get rocks to roll. Or whatever it takes to get the rocks to roll at lower vibration speed.
Vibratory tumblers are already fast at finishing rocks. It's not going to be a problem to increase the time it takes.
Maybe this is the way to look at a vibe:
A vibratory tumbler is basically an impact hammer. At low speed it is way less destructive per blow. Turn up the speed and and not only does the amount of blows per unit time increase but the speed of the blow increases. High speed blows create more damage.
No different than a 6" rotary barrel going 55 RPM verses 27 RPM. Been there done that. Try to polish a load of bigger 1" to 2.5" agates at 55 RPM/6" barrel. In most cases it is too much impact to get that final wet shine.
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Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
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Post by Wooferhound on Nov 5, 2017 6:31:25 GMT -5
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 5, 2017 6:40:32 GMT -5
Well that sure is cheap woofer. Looks like it is good to 10 amps.
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