jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 9, 2017 1:13:10 GMT -5
Best vibe finished serpentine so far. 4 tablespoons of pure 3 to 5 micron kaolin with 14 pounds of rock. Ran 48 hours. Nothing else except water sprayed to wet. Made a slick medium thick slurry in the vibe. Small tumbled glass media under 1/2 inch unfortunately with a frosted finish. Will polish glass media using AO 14,000 for next run. Glass is harder than the serpentine and frosted finish on glass could be limiting polish on serpentine. Source of Kaolin was Ebay: www.ebay.com/itm/Pure-KAOLIN-CLAY-BODY-POWDER-FACE-MASK-COSMETIC-GRADE-4-8-16-oz-1-lb-Lb-1-Kg/262782097282?ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT&var=561765771137&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649kaolin - matte polish but no pits: Best effort with AO 14,000/Borax and larger Mohs 7 media for 48 hours. Has pits: Also works great on the ladies(or they can return the favor) using following recipe: One lady in a bathing suit. Well, not fully clothed. A 10' X 10' piece of plastic sheet. (shower curtain will suffice in hotel situation) A small bucket of warm water. 1/4 pound of kaolin in a small bucket. Warm room w/bed or warm sunny location outside on lawn covered w/plastic. Wet kaolin to desired consistency and apply. -------------------------------------------- A white to light grayish fine powder. Particle size: 3 - 5 microns. Blend amount as desired into formula. Typical use levels: Melt and Pour Soaps 1-4% Masks: 50-75% Soaps: 2- 4% Bath Fizzies: 1-3 % Hardens Bath Fizzies and bath bombs! External Use Only Excellent! ---------------------------------------------
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Post by Garage Rocker on Nov 9, 2017 4:16:20 GMT -5
Progress, that's what we like to see. Got more than one piece done? Let's see a whole paper plate full! Now, how did that full body mask experiment go? No photos, please.
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Post by MrMike on Nov 9, 2017 7:21:42 GMT -5
jamesp You think the kaolin is also acting as a lubricant thereby reducing rock damage? What if you use kaolin & AO together?
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 9, 2017 9:02:45 GMT -5
jamesp You think the kaolin is also acting as a lubricant thereby reducing rock damage? What if you use kaolin & AO together? Yep. Pasty and very slick and pads rocks. Small media may play a role too. Learned this - 2 big rocks in vibe (micro)bruise each other in vibe. 1 big rock with small rocks polishes like a champ w/out (micro)bruises. So small media like 1/4" makes a bean bag chair for a big rock. And 1.5 inch soft rocks. The pitted one was run with those Rio Grand's I posted recently. If I run all 1 to 2 inch Rio's in my vibe without about 40% small media sized rocks I get a crappy polish. Same situation, not enough padding from the media. Crappy polish is actually micro bruises. Soft rocks suffer from micro bruises and make polish difficult. AO ? The guys that do well with obsidian in a vibe run 50 to 70% ceramic media. It takes long run times and 4 to 5 steps. Well, the much harder ceramic media is probably breaking down the AO. Keep in mind kaolin is about 30% AO, but it is in the form of flat plates and not sharp little roundish chunks like out tumbling AO. So kaolin AO is much more delicate and breaks down fast because it comes in thin plates. Kaolin, particles about 5 microns in scaler at lower right of photo: abrasive AO, about 10 microns:
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
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Post by jamesp on Nov 9, 2017 9:11:04 GMT -5
Progress, that's what we like to see. Got more than one piece done? Let's see a whole paper plate full! Now, how did that full body mask experiment go? No photos, please. The others are still sitting in the vibe. May crank it up for another 24 hours so I delayed clean out. Photo shop clay mask ? Does it exist ? Scared to ask.
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jamesp
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Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Nov 9, 2017 10:11:47 GMT -5
Oddly, the kaolin totally destroyed the polish on fluorite. I added a few polished fluorites to the above kaolin/serpentine load above. Makes no sense.
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Post by pauls on Nov 9, 2017 14:29:21 GMT -5
Thats a pretty respectable polish for such a soft rock, I wonder if you put some extra padding in there, maybe a handfull of sawdust or corncob.
I have used sawdust, (hardwood from the chainsaw) it gradually breaks down to a very interesting fibrous sort of slurry, papier mache, it does a good job of cushioning things.
I am still running my load in the rotary with the white Al oxide, nearly two weeks and the Agates have stopped grinding and are starting to polish but its slooow.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 10, 2017 6:52:51 GMT -5
Thats a pretty respectable polish for such a soft rock, I wonder if you put some extra padding in there, maybe a handfull of sawdust or corncob. I have used sawdust, (hardwood from the chainsaw) it gradually breaks down to a very interesting fibrous sort of slurry, papier mache, it does a good job of cushioning things. I am still running my load in the rotary with the white Al oxide, nearly two weeks and the Agates have stopped grinding and are starting to polish but its slooow. Pauls, I will repeat that the glass media is frosted and concerns me that it is damaging the process of a wet polish on softer serpentine. The kaolin certainly attacked the softer serpentine, but barely effected the harder frosted glass media. So my plan off attack from here is going to get a polish on the small glass media simply by running a big 1.5 pound rock out of the rotary in vibe in AO 220 till the 220 breaks down to polish. hopefully polishing the glass media. Then rerunning the serpentine using polished media. I think you will have to use(pre) polished media with harder abrasive for doing rocks that are softer than the media --when using softer abrasives-- i can not run organic thickeners in my particular vibe because they separate from the rocks unfortunately. However, maybe 8 tablespoons of kaolin verses 4 tablespoons would protect the serpentine better. The kaolin is so slick that I believe the vibe can move the rocks with the kaolin slurry quite a bit thicker. Still puzzled that the kaolin destroyed the polish on polished fluorite
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Post by pauls on Nov 10, 2017 14:47:22 GMT -5
That sounds like a plan James, that Kaolin is certainly slippery.
Agree too about the frosted glass maybe not helping, It could be what messed up the polish on the fluorite.
You need to build that vibe for the vibrasonic hoppers then you could run a few small test batches. Where did you get those hoppers? They are 3 times the price here so even with a hefty amount of postage they could still be cheaper from there.
I have a couple of vibrasonics, they do a good job but don't work with any small media in them, with all rocks everything works well, add a tablespoon of beads and the action just clogs and stops. The action works on the vibrations being transmitted right through all the rocks in the hopper, put anything in that cushions that and nothing happens anymore.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 13, 2017 6:17:05 GMT -5
That sounds like a plan James, that Kaolin is certainly slippery. Agree too about the frosted glass maybe not helping, It could be what messed up the polish on the fluorite. You need to build that vibe for the vibrasonic hoppers then you could run a few small test batches. Where did you get those hoppers? They are 3 times the price here so even with a hefty amount of postage they could still be cheaper from there. I have a couple of vibrasonics, they do a good job but don't work with any small media in them, with all rocks everything works well, add a tablespoon of beads and the action just clogs and stops. The action works on the vibrations being transmitted right through all the rocks in the hopper, put anything in that cushions that and nothing happens anymore. Here is the link pauls, a small company suvalapidary.com/collections/tumbling/products/tumbler-hoppersMake sure you get the "H-series" also called an H-4 hopper. $56.24 I am polishing the glass media as we speak. Either the kaolin or the frosted glass raped the polish from the fluorite. I got an OK polish on fluorite with AO and highly polished agate media. But the agate media was bigger pieces than I wanted. Like average 3/4 to 1 inch. I sifted the glass down to less than/equal to 1/2". Funny you mention the small media stoping the motion. I can say that a vibrating solenoid is limited in power. I believe in a rotating counterbalance shaft as they transmit a lot more mechanical force. I believe you need well mixed small media for padding. Glad you told me this.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 13, 2017 6:25:56 GMT -5
pauls Yes, the small H-4 hoppers are perfect for running experiments. And also for building smaller home made vibes.
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Post by vegasjames on Nov 13, 2017 6:38:07 GMT -5
I buy my kaolin from ceramic supply companies. I found it to be considerably cheaper than Ebay.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 13, 2017 9:49:19 GMT -5
I buy my kaolin from ceramic supply companies. I found it to be considerably cheaper than Ebay. I did want to pay for facial/cosmetic grade James. I figured it may be more pure than potter's grade but not sure. I live of 50 feet of kaolin, Georgia is kaolin lol. Problem is that has a lot of quartz sand in it. Must be processed to remove silica.
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Post by vegasjames on Nov 13, 2017 18:48:42 GMT -5
I buy my kaolin from ceramic supply companies. I found it to be considerably cheaper than Ebay. I did want to pay for facial/cosmetic grade James. I figured it may be more pure than potter's grade but not sure. I live of 50 feet of kaolin, Georgia is kaolin lol. Problem is that has a lot of quartz sand in it. Must be processed to remove silica. The ceramic supply sites generally give chemical breakdowns on the products so they will tell you how much aluminum oxide, silica, iron, etc, in each of the kaolins. There are different types.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Nov 13, 2017 18:58:52 GMT -5
I did want to pay for facial/cosmetic grade James. I figured it may be more pure than potter's grade but not sure. I live of 50 feet of kaolin, Georgia is kaolin lol. Problem is that has a lot of quartz sand in it. Must be processed to remove silica. The ceramic supply sites generally give chemical breakdowns on the products so they will tell you how much aluminum oxide, silica, iron, etc, in each of the kaolins. There are different types. Well, fine chinaware sure seems to be a pure grade. It breaks about as smooth as glass and so sharp. May be that the ceramic grades are the most pure.
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