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Post by Pat on Dec 28, 2017 20:00:16 GMT -5
I love thrift stores; however, I figured you were going to hang out behind a bar! I've seen a lot of pretty bottles in the grocery store beer/wire/etc section.
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 28, 2017 20:23:21 GMT -5
I love thrift stores; however, I figured you were going to hang out behind a bar! I've seen a lot of pretty bottles in the grocery store beer/wire/etc section. Newer age liquor bottles are being made out of some fancy colored glass these days Pat. Fun part would be draining the liquor !
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 28, 2017 22:17:09 GMT -5
Apparently the layer of silicon carbide traps the heat vegasjames . I ordered a 7.7" diameter kiln, a bigger one. Amazon for $52. Apparently it will have to stay in the heat longer than the smaller units. Maybe 3 times longer. It takes an acetylene torch a fair amount of time to melt a marble. Much longer than 3 to 8 minutes. And costly. Especially considering the slow heat up time to avoid it shattering. The microwave radiation must heat equally inside to outside to melt in 3 to 8 minutes with out shattering. I also bought a $50 1000 watt microwave brand new discounted at a thrift store. They had dozens and all types/sizes. From my understanding it is not trapping the heat. That would make it simply an insulator. The silicon carbide is supposed to trap the microwaves, which in turn generates the heat. Explained better in one of the links I posted above. You can also make your own kiln: depts.washington.edu/open3dp/2010/04/microwave-kilns/
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Post by MsAli on Dec 28, 2017 22:44:24 GMT -5
I love thrift stores; however, I figured you were going to hang out behind a bar! I've seen a lot of pretty bottles in the grocery store beer/wire/etc section. Newer age liquor bottles are being made out of some fancy colored glass these days Pat. Fun part would be draining the liquor ! I'e got a bunch of craft beer bottle I could smah up and send you. Beer already drained for you
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 0:04:20 GMT -5
Apparently the layer of silicon carbide traps the heat vegasjames. I ordered a 7.7" diameter kiln, a bigger one. Amazon for $52. Apparently it will have to stay in the heat longer than the smaller units. Maybe 3 times longer. It takes an acetylene torch a fair amount of time to melt a marble. Much longer than 3 to 8 minutes. And costly. Especially considering the slow heat up time to avoid it shattering. The microwave radiation must heat equally inside to outside to melt in 3 to 8 minutes with out shattering. I also bought a $50 1000 watt microwave brand new discounted at a thrift store. They had dozens and all types/sizes. Cracking unimportant when melting..... the melt will repair any cracks
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 29, 2017 3:23:49 GMT -5
Apparently the layer of silicon carbide traps the heat vegasjames. I ordered a 7.7" diameter kiln, a bigger one. Amazon for $52. Apparently it will have to stay in the heat longer than the smaller units. Maybe 3 times longer. It takes an acetylene torch a fair amount of time to melt a marble. Much longer than 3 to 8 minutes. And costly. Especially considering the slow heat up time to avoid it shattering. The microwave radiation must heat equally inside to outside to melt in 3 to 8 minutes with out shattering. I also bought a $50 1000 watt microwave brand new discounted at a thrift store. They had dozens and all types/sizes. Cracking unimportant when melting..... the melt will repair any cracks I had strange results using the torch. One big problem was the cool down. cooling cracks galore The microwave kiln offers a fast cool down so it says. Similar to heat treating rocks, you about have to cool them as slow as you heat them. Heating glass in an electric kiln is similar, a half a day to heat up and cool down minimum. This device cuts that time way down. Perfect for tumbles. Electric kiln does much larger projects though. Just filled the oxy/acet. tanks. not even full size $148... If serious with kiln melting glass it would be wood fired, cheapest fuel at this zip code.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Dec 29, 2017 13:27:56 GMT -5
Just filled the oxy/acet. tanks. not even full size $148... If serious with kiln melting glass it would be wood fired, cheapest fuel at this zip code. Eeesh! $148! Can a wood fired kiln be hot enough? 1600°F or so?
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 29, 2017 17:30:00 GMT -5
Just filled the oxy/acet. tanks. not even full size $148... If serious with kiln melting glass it would be wood fired, cheapest fuel at this zip code. Eeesh! $148! Can a wood fired kiln be hot enough? 1600°F or so? A small blast furnace should work, especially if you flux the glass with something like spodumene or borax. May have to anneal the glass though depending on the glass composition. A borosilicate glass stronger and more resistant to cracking than soda lime or flint glasses. Blast furnaces are cheap and very easy to build. I made my first one with a cookie tin, some clay, pipe and a hair dryer to melt some aluminum. Adding aluminum oxide or magnesium oxide to the clay will help make it more refractory so it lasts longer. Sodium silicate can also be used to make the refractory.
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notjustone
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Post by notjustone on Dec 29, 2017 19:04:37 GMT -5
Just filled the oxy/acet. tanks. not even full size $148... If serious with kiln melting glass it would be wood fired, cheapest fuel at this zip code. Eeesh! $148! Can a wood fired kiln be hot enough? 1600°F or so? certainly civilizations have used wood fired cupila furnaces to make iron from ore for centuries. most of the time they made the wood into lump charcoal first.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Dec 29, 2017 20:21:51 GMT -5
Been following this glass subject for ideas. Being a New Member, nevr got into tumbling yet, other than using them for cleaning metal. Working in Hot and Cold Glass, and stained glass, I generate a ton of colored glass scrap, and have glass kilns, so am going to try melting some of the scrap into slabs or chunks. My kiln has an auto feature to melt and anneal glass as a choice on its menu, so that part will be easy. Will let everyone know how it works out. I give the scrap away now, so it would be neat to make something out of it.
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Post by vegasjames on Dec 29, 2017 21:11:17 GMT -5
Been following this glass subject for ideas. Being a New Member, nevr got into tumbling yet, other than using them for cleaning metal. Working in Hot and Cold Glass, and stained glass, I generate a ton of colored glass scrap, and have glass kilns, so am going to try melting some of the scrap into slabs or chunks. My kiln has an auto feature to melt and anneal glass as a choice on its menu, so that part will be easy. Will let everyone know how it works out. I give the scrap away now, so it would be neat to make something out of it. Electric kilns can vary considerably in temps they can reach depending on the type of coil used and the power that can be applied without tripping the breaker box. I am getting ready to rewire my kiln right now since the coils are old and take a long time to heat up. The highest I could go was I think 1200W (iron, chromium and aluminum alloy) for 120 volts. This will hit somewhere around 1300C max. Fluxing the glass will lower the melting point as will grinding the glass down in to a really fine powder. There are many types of fluxes all with their pros and cons so you should research them.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Dec 29, 2017 21:54:55 GMT -5
I can melt brass in my smaller kilns and the Large one is specifically a "Glass Kiln" is locked by me at 1900 degrees but can do 2300 degrees. The glass kiln has a 42 inch by 26 inch chamber, 13 inches deep. The digital controller has a preset firing section where all the setting are stored by the factory for the particular job, be it slumping, fusing, or casting, or you can create your own schedule and store them. the kiln is 240 volt with 50 amp supply, so no problem reaching the 1500F degree temperature needed. I use it all the time to shape glass sheets into different shapes.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Dec 31, 2017 11:37:18 GMT -5
Eeesh! $148! Can a wood fired kiln be hot enough? 1600°F or so? certainly civilizations have used wood fired cupila furnaces to make iron from ore for centuries. most of the time they made the wood into lump charcoal first. Wood is not a practical fuel for a kiln. Imagine how big and nasty it would have to be. Making charcoal out of wood is even more time prohibitive. They would bury large stackes of wood and set it on fire letting it smolder and half burn, then dig up the charcoal. Can't imagine anyone doing that today. Instead of buying oxygen look into an oxygen concentrator. The only thing I buy now is propane for torches, and argon for the tig.
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notjustone
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Post by notjustone on Dec 31, 2017 14:37:08 GMT -5
certainly civilizations have used wood fired cupila furnaces to make iron from ore for centuries. most of the time they made the wood into lump charcoal first. Wood is not a practical fuel for a kiln. Imagine how big and nasty it would have to be. Making charcoal out of wood is even more time prohibitive. They would bury large stackes of wood and set it on fire letting it smolder and half burn, then dig up the charcoal. Can't imagine anyone doing that today. Instead of buying oxygen look into an oxygen concentrator. The only thing I buy now is propane for torches, and argon for the tig. some blacksmiths still use hardwood charcoal in forges today. period correct demonstrations. and use a charcoal retort to make coal. I personally attended a 3 day demonstration about 15 years ago at a museum where we buried the wood to make charcoal harvested next morning and loaded a clay cupila melted down ore extracted the bloom and spent day 3 consildating it into a chunk of wrought.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Dec 31, 2017 14:52:43 GMT -5
That's pretty cool. Would liked to have been there. I love history and old methods, tools, and such, because of the History behind all of them. Never dabbled in Blacksmithing, but have watched many making things out of raw material and its amazing what they can make. I use a kiln a lot, and in fact, have glass in one as I write this, and electric is sooo much easier and with a digital programmer, you can enter a schedule and walk away. When its done, it shuts off. No wood smell either. LOL
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jamesp
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Post by jamesp on Dec 31, 2017 15:10:33 GMT -5
Here in the SE US pottery kilns were the norm for many years. Including glazing operations. With all the fine clay availability pottery goes way back. Probably requires intimate knowledge of your kiln. They are bulky. Not to big of a deal to build on a farm where space is available. Certainly albatrosses. The fuel is about free. Not sure how these kilns relate to glass kiln performance/requirments.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Jan 1, 2018 20:24:19 GMT -5
Apparently the layer of silicon carbide traps the heat vegasjames . I ordered a 7.7" diameter kiln, a bigger one. Amazon for $52. Apparently it will have to stay in the heat longer than the smaller units. Maybe 3 times longer. It takes an acetylene torch a fair amount of time to melt a marble. Much longer than 3 to 8 minutes. And costly. Especially considering the slow heat up time to avoid it shattering. The microwave radiation must heat equally inside to outside to melt in 3 to 8 minutes with out shattering. I also bought a $50 1000 watt microwave brand new discounted at a thrift store. They had dozens and all types/sizes. Cracking unimportant when melting..... the melt will repair any cracks How about the annealing after the melt to keep it from cracking? How does this kiln handle that part.
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Post by Deleted on Jan 1, 2018 20:38:20 GMT -5
Cracking unimportant when melting..... the melt will repair any cracks How about the annealing after the melt to keep it from cracking? How does this kiln handle that part. Doesn't seem to need it. I read quite a lot about this system and it seems to "just work" as presented. No fancy footwork.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Jan 1, 2018 20:39:22 GMT -5
Here in the SE US pottery kilns were the norm for many years. Including glazing operations. With all the fine clay availability pottery goes way back. Probably requires intimate knowledge of your kiln. They are bulky. Not to big of a deal to build on a farm where space is available. Certainly albatrosses. The fuel is about free. Not sure how these kilns relate to glass kiln performance/requirments. Glass kilns are pretty precise today and are a real necessity if doing a lot of glass firing. Glass has firing schedules that ramp up heat in programmed increments, to keep it from cracking, and different glass and different thickness are a part of the schedule. A glass kiln saves all your own schedules and has a library of pre programmed schdules that you just pick and use in "Express" mode. It also operates the kiln on cool down, to keep the glass from cracking. The bigger the chunk of glass, the slower it needs to be cooled to room temperature. Have been running the kiln each day this week, making bent panels for an antique lamp. Have 4 more to make, since its a 8 panel lamp.
Soon as I am done with this project, will try a batch of melted color glass to see how it turns out as a cheap media source for tumbling. Any Ideas on size of ideal chunks or pieces that one would use for tumbling or breaking up, would be appreciated. The good thing is that making the chunks, you can pick your size and shape, unlike a rock.
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toolnut
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Post by toolnut on Jan 1, 2018 20:51:08 GMT -5
Cracking unimportant when melting..... the melt will repair any cracks I had strange results using the torch. One big problem was the cool down. cooling cracks galore The microwave kiln offers a fast cool down so it says. Similar to heat treating rocks, you about have to cool them as slow as you heat them. Heating glass in an electric kiln is similar, a half a day to heat up and cool down minimum. This device cuts that time way down. Perfect for tumbles. Electric kiln does much larger projects though. Just filled the oxy/acet. tanks. not even full size $148... If serious with kiln melting glass it would be wood fired, cheapest fuel at this zip code. It takes about 4 to 6 hours for an average heat schedule for 1/8 inch thick sheet, in the glass kiln, and about 8 hours for the annealing cool down to room temperature. The thicker the glass the longer the time you add. I would think a Microwave kiln would cool off way to fast to keep the glass from cracking, which would be from 900 degrees to room temperature.
As far as oxy and acetylene, have you considered propane and an Oxygen Concentrator?
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