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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 22, 2018 10:41:32 GMT -5
After looking at Fossilman 's great video on Montana agate and seeing some others interested in tumbling these stones, I decided to post some pics and information on my Montana's. It just so happens that I prepped some Montana agate last weekend and snapped a photo before they headed to the tumbling bucket. I don't load up a whole barrel of these, because they take so long to finish rounding into the kind of shape I prefer. I don't want to tie up a whole barrel and not have anything come out of it in...forever. They get thrown into different barrels, sparingly, with all the other material I have rolling. I know that once they go in, they will spend months in there. If I throw a couple in with other rocks at each cleanout, then there will be a somewhat steady stream of them finishing up.
Here is what I started with last weekend:
Most of these were smaller nodules and halves already, but still needed some work for tumble ready material. I cut through obvious fractures and flaws, trying to get clean pieces going into the tumbler. On some of them, I will grind off the rough outer skin. Others I leave alone. Once they go into the tumbler, there is no removing them for further grinding of flaws. I'm fairly passive once they go in, just let them work themselves into shape. I'm in no hurry.
Prepped Montana agate:
I realize I should have put something in the pics for a size reference, but I didn't. Here is a 'for instance' of the size I like to have coming out of the tumbler.
The one on the left is an average size and the one on the right is toward the larger end of my tumbles. It's a chunky one. These get rolled in my 6 and 12lb tumblers. The three pound barrel would take even longer, due to the decreased tumbling action going on in there.
When to remove the stones is a matter of personal preference. Some like to keep a semblance of their natural state, others like smooth and super shiny tumbles. I fall into the latter group, so these things stay in as long as they need to. There is no 'schedule'. Whichever route you go, they are a fun tumble and worth the effort. There is a lot of variety in them and they always seem to be a favorite with "the crowd".
Other examples of tumbled Montana's: (some were cut thin and shaped for pendants, then tumbled)
Check back about this time next year for photos of the finished result of all the prepped material pictured above.
Randy
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Post by MsAli on Mar 22, 2018 10:48:31 GMT -5
Thank you for sharing these They are becoming one of my favorites as no 2 are the same.
I can see where you wouldn't throw them in all at the same time I threw a couple I had in with my batches and I'm thinking a year maybe right before they are done
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Post by Drummond Island Rocks on Mar 22, 2018 11:14:18 GMT -5
Informative post. I would almost venture to say that for the type of finished tumbles you posted that every one of them had prep work done. The material I have had has always been too fractured to just roll them. Plus most of the great features inside the rocks do not get exposed unless you cut them.
Chuck
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Fossilman
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2009
Posts: 20,685
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Post by Fossilman on Mar 22, 2018 11:33:04 GMT -5
Randy,those are killer pieces!!! The one with the tubes is totally awesome!!! My favorite material to roll, is Montanas, so many possibilities with that material, you just can't go wrong... I have the best of two worlds with my material, a customer that buys from me, wants her tumbled rocks, natural (Fractures, pits and all), they sell like hot cakes for her.. Than I can cut a few and cab many and they sell like crazy too, to my customers...LOL
PS: Randy that tubed Montana is on the rare side....Not many around..
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 22, 2018 12:22:09 GMT -5
Great post, Randy. Gotta love Montana agates! A lot of good advice. Truer words were never spoken. Yes, they take a lot of time, some more than others, and a lot of patience!
You definitely can't be in a hurry.
There are no hard and fast rules that apply to every rock, or every tumbler.
These are all really sweet!
I especially like these four. Great works of art by Mother Nature, tumbled to perfection by the Master! Ready to wrap them?
"Check back about this time next year" - Ain't that about the truth! I sometimes wonder if it is preferable to be honest with newbies. Tell them the truth (It takes longer then one week per stage), or tell them what they want to hear (It DOES only take one week per stage). I don't like to mislead people, maybe it's just me?
Anyway, we want folks to know what they are getting into, not have surprises along the way. Right?
I like your style, Randy! Keep up the good great work!
Jean
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Post by mohs on Mar 22, 2018 12:32:50 GMT -5
exquisite! it takes a lot of grit to have that much patience AND know how !!
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 22, 2018 12:34:22 GMT -5
Randy,those are killer pieces!!! The one with the tubes is totally awesome!!! My favorite material to roll, is Montanas, so many possibilities with that material, you just can't go wrong... I have the best of two worlds with my material, a customer that buys from me, wants her tumbled rocks, natural (Fractures, pits and all), they sell like hot cakes for her.. Than I can cut a few and cab many and they sell like crazy too, to my customers...LOL PS: Randy that tubed Montana is on the rare side....Not many around.. Thanks, Mike! I always check out your Montana agate videos. Sounds like you're moving a lot of rocks.
That little 'tuber' stays in the bowl on my coffee table. It is unique. Here is another piece off the same rock.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 22, 2018 12:50:00 GMT -5
Informative post. I would almost venture to say that for the type of finished tumbles you posted that every one of them had prep work done. The material I have had has always been too fractured to just roll them. Plus most of the great features inside the rocks do not get exposed unless you cut them. Chuck Yes, Chuck, most of my Montana's get some type of prep work. I don't cab, but would still like to be able to capture particular features in my tumbles, so I spend some time at the tile saw with certain kinds of rocks.
Also, due to the size of some of my Montana's, they have to be broken down anyway. I have two boxes of varying size material. I don't buy crushed rock, ready for the tumbler.
The small/broken ones that can go right to the tumbler with minimal, to no, prep, other than maybe cutting off an odd protrusion.
The ones that would not do well, as is.
Too big for the tumbler?
I have a 10" tile saw that I can use to cut these, but normally I will just score them with the 7" tile saw and break them with hammer and chisel. I try to quarter them and then make more precise cuts with the little saw when I get them to a manageable size.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 22, 2018 12:56:37 GMT -5
Thanks, Jean rockpickerforever, for the kind words. They really are a great tumbling rock, but they do test the patience.
"Check back about this time next year" - Ain't that about the truth! I sometimes wonder if it is preferable to be honest with newbies. Tell them the truth (It takes longer then one week per stage), or tell them what they want to hear (It DOES only take one week per stage). I don't like to mislead people, maybe it's just me?
Anyway, we want folks to know what they are getting into, not have surprises along the way. Right?
The way I see it, there isn't any reason to sugar coat it. Once someone does the first cleanout with Montana's, they are going to be hit with the truth anyway.
As far as wrapping those pendant shaped stones...uh, no!!! I did a few and took my retirement early. I'll leave that to the nimble-fingered, talented people.
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Post by rockpickerforever on Mar 22, 2018 13:50:50 GMT -5
As far as wrapping those pendant shaped stones...uh, no!!! I did a few and took my retirement early. I'll leave that to the nimble-fingered, talented people.
Ah c'mon. What do you have to lose? They are a good size, and have such wonderful patterns and shapes, they are just dying for someone to wrap them! You don't learn if you don't try.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Mar 22, 2018 14:22:57 GMT -5
These are such good posts, Randy. I love the before pictures, the finished pictures, and the additional information on how to tumble a particular stone. Whenever you do one of these, it makes me want to start tumbling the highlighted rock right away. Unfortunately I have too many rocks stockpiled and not enough time to tumble all of them.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 22, 2018 14:40:36 GMT -5
it takes a lot of grit to have that much patience I see what you did there.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 22, 2018 14:51:47 GMT -5
These are such good posts, Randy. I love the before pictures, the finished pictures, and the additional information on how to tumble a particular stone. Whenever you do one of these, it makes me want to start tumbling the highlighted rock right away. Unfortunately I have too many rocks stockpiled and not enough time to tumble all of them. Thanks, Rob, appreciate the compliment. If you don't have more rocks than you can tumble, you're doing something wrong! I don't know if I will ever get through all those big honkin' Montana's, but it'll be fun trying. I'm sure I'll consider buying more if I see a good deal on some nice ones. 'Hi, I'm Randy. I'm a rockaholic.'
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Mar 23, 2018 10:32:20 GMT -5
First off great post.
I have taken to breaking mine along existing fractures, common for Montanas, the fractures. I have a set up using a bench vise that is quite effective. Without scoring the hammer/chisel can sometimes make more fractures, at least for me.
Do you find that the larger the rock the longer it takes?
Also do you find that flat surfaces tend to go concave when tumbled for long periods of time?
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Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2018 12:32:50 GMT -5
Well done Randy Garage Rocker. I got a sneak peak of your rough photos, and I was left wondering what you had up your sleeve. Very informative. I've not had too much luck with Montanas - not so much with not being able to get a shine, but I must be getting all of the fractured stuff that is out there. I'm not ending up with many flawless pieces at the end of the day. Then again, I'm just throwing the stuff in the barrels, and the pieces aren't too big to start with. I can see where sectioning out the good stuff out of larger pieces is probably the best way to go. Good on you for finding great material.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 23, 2018 13:31:57 GMT -5
First off great post. I have taken to breaking mine along existing fractures, common for Montanas, the fractures. I have a set up using a bench vise that is quite effective. Without scoring the hammer/chisel can sometimes make more fractures, at least for me. Do you find that the larger the rock the longer it takes? Also do you find that flat surfaces tend to go concave when tumbled for long periods of time? Thanks, Ken. I don't like smashing rocks with the hammer, for that reason. A lot of the time, if you can find a natural fracture, the rock will split along that fracture if you start cutting along it. There's some work involved and material loss when prepping Montana's. I have never kept notes on my tumbling process, but going off memory, I don't notice a difference in the time needed to round out a larger piece. Of course, I have pieces coming out all the time and probably just haven't paid too much attention to when they went in. I haven't had any trouble with flats going concave. Do you have any examples?
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Post by Garage Rocker on Mar 23, 2018 13:38:21 GMT -5
Well done Randy Garage Rocker. I got a sneak peak of your rough photos, and I was left wondering what you had up your sleeve. Very informative. I've not had too much luck with Montanas - not so much with not being able to get a shine, but I must be getting all of the fractured stuff that is out there. I'm not ending up with many flawless pieces at the end of the day. Then again, I'm just throwing the stuff in the barrels, and the pieces aren't too big to start with. I can see where sectioning out the good stuff out of larger pieces is probably the best way to go. Good on you for finding great material. Dave, are you buying Montana agate 'tumbling rough'? That stuff has likely been crushed, literally, in the process. I prefer to buy cutting rough these days. There are fractures in all Montana's, I like to have the whole thing so I can try to cut through the obvious ones. There is some material loss, but you get some clean pieces too. Granted, it is tough to break down the really big ones with the 7" and 10" tile saws, but still worth it.
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Post by aDave on Mar 23, 2018 14:02:50 GMT -5
Well done Randy Garage Rocker . I got a sneak peak of your rough photos, and I was left wondering what you had up your sleeve. Very informative. I've not had too much luck with Montanas - not so much with not being able to get a shine, but I must be getting all of the fractured stuff that is out there. I'm not ending up with many flawless pieces at the end of the day. Then again, I'm just throwing the stuff in the barrels, and the pieces aren't too big to start with. I can see where sectioning out the good stuff out of larger pieces is probably the best way to go. Good on you for finding great material. Dave, are you buying Montana agate 'tumbling rough'? That stuff has likely been crushed, literally, in the process. I prefer to buy cutting rough these days. There are fractures in all Montana's, I like to have the whole thing so I can try to cut through the obvious ones. There is some material loss, but you get some clean pieces too. Granted, it is tough to break down the really big ones with the 7" and 10" tile saws, but still worth it. Actually, I'm not buying it specifically. If anything, it's been mixed in with other stuff I purchased. I think the sectioning out material from larger stuff is the way to go, as you have done. It gives me something to consider if I ever look to purchase some down the road. In the meantime, I still have boxes of rocks that I haven't even touched yet, so I'm not seeing myself buying them in the near future.
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tkvancil
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2011
Posts: 1,546
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Post by tkvancil on Apr 8, 2018 13:35:47 GMT -5
First off great post. I have taken to breaking mine along existing fractures, common for Montanas, the fractures. I have a set up using a bench vise that is quite effective. Without scoring the hammer/chisel can sometimes make more fractures, at least for me. Do you find that the larger the rock the longer it takes? Also do you find that flat surfaces tend to go concave when tumbled for long periods of time? Thanks, Ken. I don't like smashing rocks with the hammer, for that reason. A lot of the time, if you can find a natural fracture, the rock will split along that fracture if you start cutting along it. There's some work involved and material loss when prepping Montana's. I have never kept notes on my tumbling process, but going off memory, I don't notice a difference in the time needed to round out a larger piece. Of course, I have pieces coming out all the time and probably just haven't paid too much attention to when they went in. I haven't had any trouble with flats going concave. Do you have any examples? Looked for some examples but they must have wound up in giveaways. Found that if edges of flats are beveled the effect is lessened. Pre-shaping after cutting would likely also lessen effect. Doing some crushed jaspers now and breaks that were flattish are tending toward concave. Vibe polishes 'em up so now worries. Perhaps my bigger rocks take longer because flaws are deeper. Don't pre-grind as a general rule.
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