saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Apr 24, 2018 10:08:44 GMT -5
Question for all... I pulled my jasper mix out of stage 1 after 4 weeks... I started these all from rough without any pre-shaping / tile saw cuts etc. I did 4 loads of grit for each week. Tried to hit 5 days for clean outs but sometimes it was 6-8 days depending. I used the Lortone QT66 (using 2 6lb barrels) and 8 tbl 36-70 grit with some kitty litter and the recycled slurry after. The problems I'm experiencing is that the longer I tumble, the shapes of most are not necessarily becoming more round, they are just diminishing in size (losing volume). I don't know if I have different hardness material (only used jasper mix, and then carnelian and small mix from TRS to fill in volume later). The jasper mix was Mexican red, serape, zebra, leopard skin, desert and kambaba. I have found that the Mexican red must be softer as most those pieces are very tiny. I seem to be getting some more fractures appearing the longer I tumble so I have decided to move onto the lot-o and out of stage 1. Because of the volume loss, I don't see myself being able to tumble these another 1-4 weeks to get the shapes. They might be bb sized =) I'm not real happy with the overall shape of them - thought they would round more overall. Suggestions / tips please? (and thank you) I have another batch of Botswana agates running and these are much better shape wise, however I did tile-cut / shape these beforehand as well. For reference: Initial load pics: Jasper mix @ 24 hrs by grantbleeker@ 1 week: Jasper mix @ 1 week by grantbleeker@ 4 weeks and where I am taking them out to move to lot-o: Jasper @ 4 weeks by grantbleekerJasper @ 4 weeks - 3 by grantbleeker
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Post by HankRocks on Apr 24, 2018 11:08:21 GMT -5
One thing I do is run a 10 day coarse stage with 3 re-charges, at 2 day, 4 day and 6 day. After last re-charge I have started letting it run 4 days before I empty and do an inspection. Those that are ready to my satisfaction move on to next stage, those that are not go back in coarse. Some may take 2, 3, or even 4 cycles of coarse. I don't want to keep tumbling those that are ready for more than one coarse cycle. Why reduce a smooth rock in size by going extra cycles?
This method works because I have good stock of tumble material that can fill in when "ready-to-move-on" rocks are pulled for next stage. If you have limited rocks then my method would not work.
My coarse are running in a double 12 tumbler. My 2nd stage is 80 AO or pre-polish if you will, so 95% of the required smoothing is done in the coarse stage. That is the main reason I have extended to 4 days past last re-charge so that the rocks I pull out for the next stage have been tumbled in Silicon Carbide that's probably broken down to probably 400-600 range.
I think letting all your rocks run for the same length of time in coarse is over-kill as some are probably ready way before the 4 weeks. I think what you need is the rock collectors mantra "I need more rocks". Good luck
Good luck.
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Apr 24, 2018 11:43:54 GMT -5
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Apr 24, 2018 11:44:11 GMT -5
One thing I do is run a 10 day coarse stage with 3 re-charges, at 2 day, 4 day and 6 day. After last re-charge I have started letting it run 4 days before I empty and do an inspection. Those that are ready to my satisfaction move on to next stage, those that are not go back in coarse. Some may take 2, 3, or even 4 cycles of coarse. I don't want to keep tumbling those that are ready for more than one coarse cycle. Why reduce a smooth rock in size by going extra cycles? This method works because I have good stock of tumble material that can fill in when "ready-to-move-on" rocks are pulled for next stage. If you have limited rocks then my method would not work. My coarse are running in a double 12 tumbler. My 2nd stage is 80 AO or pre-polish if you will, so 95% of the required smoothing is done in the coarse stage. That is the main reason I have extended to 4 days past last re-charge so that the rocks I pull out for the next stage have been tumbled in Silicon Carbide that's probably broken down to probably 400-600 range. I think letting all your rocks run for the same length of time in coarse is over-kill as some are probably ready way before the 4 weeks. I think what you need is the rock collectors mantra "I need more rocks". Good luck Good luck. I have a ton of rough supply ready to re-fill the barrel =) I'm just finding that for this particular jasper batch - if I remove the ones ready and keep tumbling the ones that aren't (and add new material) that the jasper pieces I want to continue tumbling are only reducing in size. Their shape is not changing or becoming more circular / round. Each edge rounds bit more sure, but not overall. Read more: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/83107/help-jasper-stage-1?page=1#ixzz5DbpFmNre
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Post by MsAli on Apr 24, 2018 11:56:27 GMT -5
You may need to fill it with more small peas size material ? I know others will chime in, but that to me helps them "roll"
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Post by aDave on Apr 24, 2018 12:13:32 GMT -5
Grant, I don't think your rocks look that bad, though I know you had certain expectations from them when you started. I think your single biggest issue was your hope that you'd be able to take the entire batch at the end of a coarse run and move them along all together. As HankRocks touched on, even though rocks may be similar in hardness, some may be ready to move on before others. Those that are "good to go" early will get whittled away to nothing while others are still trying to catch up. It's for this reason that many of us will simply remove the rocks that are ready to move on to the next stage and backfill with new rough. Rocks that are pulled are simply set aside until enough rocks are obtained to start a second stage. Using this particular technique means your rotary will be constantly running and you'll need additional rock to do the backfill. This is your first batch, correct? It's nice to have high expectations, but I think you'll find (over time) that all rocks are not created equal. Some tumble exquisitely and will be flawless. Others may be prone to fracture. Some may start to look good and then pits develop. As you go along in the hobby, I think you'll learn that often there is a point that certain rocks may need to be pulled even though they don't look as nice as you hoped. I pull rocks "early" often, as I know I've gotten the best out of them that I can, and no additional tumbling will help. To do so only causes them to disappear or develop other flaws. Lastly, if you are finding your rocks are smaller than what you were hoping for, try to start with rough that's a bit larger if you can. Hang in there. I'm not going to say it gets easier, but you will figure out what ultimately works best for you.
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Apr 24, 2018 12:17:22 GMT -5
Grant, I don't think your rocks look that bad, though I know you had certain expectations from them when you started. I think your single biggest issue was your hope that you'd be able to take the entire batch at the end of a coarse run and move them along all together. As HankRocks touched on, even though rocks may be similar in hardness, some may be ready to move on before others. Those that are "good to go" early will get whittled away to nothing while others are still trying to catch up. It's for this reason that many of us will simply remove the rocks that are ready to move on to the next stage and backfill with new rough. Rocks that are pulled are simply set aside until enough rocks are obtained to start a second stage. Using this particular technique means your rotary will be constantly running and you'll need additional rock to do the backfill. This is your first batch, correct? It's nice to have high expectations, but I think you'll find (over time) that all rocks are not created equal. Some tumble exquisitely and will be flawless. Others may be prone to fracture. Some may start to look good and then pits develop. As you go along in the hobby, I think you'll learn that often there is a point that certain rocks may need to be pulled even though they don't look as nice as you hoped. I pull rocks "early" often, as I know I've gotten the best out of them that I can, and no additional tumbling will help. To do so only causes them to disappear or develop other flaws. Lastly, if you are finding your rocks are smaller than what you were hoping for, try to start with rough that's a bit larger if you can. Hang in there. I'm not going to say it gets easier, but you will figure out what ultimately works best for you. Thanks for this. I did try and pull rocks and re-fill with carnelian filler etc. I have a bunch of rough ready now, so I'm gonna move this batch on and try a few diff things next batch. I really have 3 batches going... this is the 2nd batch. 3rd batch is bots and other agates. Batches 4-6 are all cut /prepped and waiting for rotary time =) I'll just move on and keep playing! Grant
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Post by Jugglerguy on Apr 24, 2018 12:21:33 GMT -5
Good advice from those above, especially the part about not expecting all rocks to be done at the same time. I think you might be misinterpreting the word "rounded". Don't expect the rocks to turn into little spheres. "Rounded" just means that the edges will not be sharp and jagged anymore. I think your rocks are coming along very nicely. They look like I would expect them to look after four weeks.
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saxplayer
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since March 2018
Posts: 1,327
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Post by saxplayer on Apr 24, 2018 13:00:18 GMT -5
Thanks everyone, I'll keep going at it and see what I can learn =)
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Post by vegasjames on Apr 24, 2018 16:39:38 GMT -5
You mentioned fractures. Maybe some of the stones are breaking along the fractures, which is reducing their size and creating new, non-rounded edges.
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Post by gmitch067 on Apr 24, 2018 22:13:11 GMT -5
Very good advice above saxplayer . I think your 4-week tumble looks real good... nice shapes... even sizes look good. I think you are doing fine! I am a proponent of the weed-n-feed philosophy... weeding out the ones ready for the vibe, and replacing the rocks with roughs until I get the 6 lb barrel back up to 75%. If I have no other rocks of the same hardness I sometimes use some softer ones for a week to get their initial shape fleshed out (do not use brittle stones for this though... Obsidian tends to shatter when added to a 7-Mohs tumble. I have also used NEW large ceramic media as filler to knock off their sharp edges (gets them ready for use in the 220 through polish stages). In a pinch... driveway gravel works too (try to use your own... not the neighbor's)
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nileriver
off to a rocking start
Member since December 2016
Posts: 22
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Post by nileriver on Apr 27, 2018 12:05:40 GMT -5
Jugglerguy is on the nose. The only way to get extremely well rounded stones is to either collect them that way, ie: beaches and river beds, or to pre-cut and/or grind before starting
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