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Post by oregon on Jul 31, 2018 0:24:27 GMT -5
I use the general 4step loto process like others, and am happy with results: 2 TABLEspoons 120/220 or 220 Silicon Carbide for 2 days. 1/2 TEAspoon 500 aluminum oxide for 2 days. 1/2 TEAspoon 1000 aluminum oxide for 2 days. 1/2 TEAspoon aluminum oxide polish for 2 days.
But I am lazy, and wouldn't mind getting rid of a few of those cleanouts if larger AO made that work.. I know several folks experimented with AO 40 or 80 in the Lot-o, but I didn't come up with a real cohesive story of outcomes.
Have any of you been running AO 80/40 regularly and using a different recipe? Thanks!
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jul 31, 2018 7:54:37 GMT -5
I use the general 4step loto process like others, and am happy with results: 2 TABLEspoons 120/220 or 220 Silicon Carbide for 2 days. 1/2 TEAspoon 500 aluminum oxide for 2 days. 1/2 TEAspoon 1000 aluminum oxide for 2 days. 1/2 TEAspoon aluminum oxide polish for 2 days. But I am lazy, and wouldn't mind getting rid of a few of those cleanouts if larger AO made that work.. I know several folks experimented with AO 40 or 80 in the Lot-o, but I didn't come up with a real cohesive story of outcomes. Have any of you been running AO 80/40 regularly and using a different recipe? Thanks! Funny you bring this up right now, I was planning on putting together a thread on this topic. I just haven't got the pics to go with it yet. I have been running a different process since I restarted my tumblers after Winter. I had been doing exactly what you wrote above in the Lot O, but wanted to streamline the process a little. Now, after rounding them out nicely in Sic 46/70, the rocks move to the Lot O for AO 80. They stay for 4-5 days, getting a squirt of Dawn and a splash of water in the last hour. After a quick rinse, they go into the polish stage. I use TXP polish from rocktumbler.com, which is a little larger size grit than what everyone else seems to be using. I believe it is like 8,000 AO, or close to that. That stage stays for 2 days, then a quick burnish in Borax and done. The actual time in the Lot O hasn't changed much for me, but there is less hassle with cleanouts. I only have to give a squirt of water after about 12 hours and again on day three. I bought a 10 lb. bag of AO 80 and I have a pound of polish, so I shouldn't have to buy those for many years. Now, I only have to worry about keeping Sic 46/70 on hand. I just got 50 lbs. last week, so I'm all set to go. I will get some pics from the last few batches to show the results. I am totally satisfied with the end product and I wouldn't make this change if I saw any loss of quality in my tumbles. For all the time the rocks spend in the first stage, it wouldn't be worth it to cut corners so close to the finish line.
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Post by oregon on Jul 31, 2018 10:11:07 GMT -5
I had been doing exactly what you wrote above in the Lot O, but wanted to streamline the process a little. Now, after rounding them out nicely in Sic 46/70, the rocks move to the Lot O for AO 80. They stay for 4-5 days, getting a squirt of Dawn and a splash of water in the last hour. After a quick rinse, they go into the polish stage. I use TXP polish from rocktumbler.com, which is a little larger size grit than what everyone else seems to be using. I believe it is like 8,000 AO, or close to that. That stage stays for 2 days, then a quick burnish in Borax and done. The actual time in the Lot O hasn't changed much for me, but there is less hassle with cleanouts. I only have to give a squirt of water after about 12 hours and again on day three. I bought a 10 lb. bag of AO 80 and I have a pound of polish, so I shouldn't have to buy those for many years. Now, I only have to worry about keeping Sic 46/70 on hand. I just got 50 lbs. last week, so I'm all set to go. I will get some pics from the last few batches to show the results. I am totally satisfied with the end product and I wouldn't make this change if I saw any loss of quality in my tumbles. For all the time the rocks spend in the first stage, it wouldn't be worth it to cut corners so close to the finish line. Thanks - so I think I saw 2Tablespoons of AO80 somewhere yesterday, is that how much you're using? Will have to give it a try. No signs of barrel abuse?
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jul 31, 2018 10:28:02 GMT -5
I had been doing exactly what you wrote above in the Lot O, but wanted to streamline the process a little. Now, after rounding them out nicely in Sic 46/70, the rocks move to the Lot O for AO 80. They stay for 4-5 days, getting a squirt of Dawn and a splash of water in the last hour. After a quick rinse, they go into the polish stage. I use TXP polish from rocktumbler.com, which is a little larger size grit than what everyone else seems to be using. I believe it is like 8,000 AO, or close to that. That stage stays for 2 days, then a quick burnish in Borax and done. The actual time in the Lot O hasn't changed much for me, but there is less hassle with cleanouts. I only have to give a squirt of water after about 12 hours and again on day three. I bought a 10 lb. bag of AO 80 and I have a pound of polish, so I shouldn't have to buy those for many years. Now, I only have to worry about keeping Sic 46/70 on hand. I just got 50 lbs. last week, so I'm all set to go. I will get some pics from the last few batches to show the results. I am totally satisfied with the end product and I wouldn't make this change if I saw any loss of quality in my tumbles. For all the time the rocks spend in the first stage, it wouldn't be worth it to cut corners so close to the finish line. Thanks - so I think I saw 2Tablespoons of AO80 somewhere yesterday, is that how much you're using? Will have to give it a try. No signs of barrel abuse? No sign of barrel wear. I guess it breaks down quick enough that it isn't abusing the rubber. Also, even though it is technically more coarse than the Sic 120/220 I was using, it doesn't feel like it. I am rather inexact with measurements, but I usually throw in a heaping tablespoon of AO80 and then stick with 1/2 teaspoon of polish when they move on. I think you will be pleased with the results.
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Post by fantastic5 on Jul 31, 2018 13:58:23 GMT -5
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Post by oregon on Jul 31, 2018 14:52:11 GMT -5
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Jul 31, 2018 16:52:19 GMT -5
AO is pretty much AO be it grey white brown. They have all performed well for me for the process Randy is doing. SiC coarse - AO 80 - AO polish. Not sure why tumbling supply companies don't carry AO 80. I aways did it in a Vibrasonic(like 50 times) though, not a Lot-O. But I almost always finish with Rock Shed polish. TSP should be fine. AO 5000 makes great polish. Never tried black AO. But have used el cheapo sand blasting grade AO 80.
I used 4 tablespoons AO 80 for 14 pounds of rock.
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Post by aDave on Jul 31, 2018 17:07:16 GMT -5
I use TXP polish from rocktumbler.com, which is a little larger size grit than what everyone else seems to be using. I believe it is like 8,000 AO, or close to that. That stage stays for 2 days, then a quick burnish in Borax and done. I thought you mentioned to me that you had changed things up a bit. I should have tagged you. FWIW, I have some TXP from rocktumbler.com as well. It's pretty old (15 years or so) but it's labled "Micron Aluminum Oxide." Problem is, since there's no number before it I don't know if that means it's actually one micron or not. They obviously rebranded it, as it looks to have a Minnesota Lapidary Supply logo on it as well. Maybe the answer is there, but considering the length of time that has passed, suppliers may have changed. ETA: Just looked at the rocktumbler.com website, and they list what they sell now as being around 3 microns - 8k like you have now.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jul 31, 2018 17:12:40 GMT -5
AO is pretty much AO be it grey white brown. They have all performed well for me for the process Randy is doing. SiC coarse - AO 80 - AO polish. Not sure why tumbling supply companies don't carry AO 80. I aways did it in a Vibrasonic(like 50 times) though, not a Lot-O. But I almost always finish with Rock Shed polish. TSP should be fine. It was good enough for James, good enough for me. His results, and pictures there of, made a strong argument.
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jul 31, 2018 17:25:04 GMT -5
I use TXP polish from rocktumbler.com, which is a little larger size grit than what everyone else seems to be using. I believe it is like 8,000 AO, or close to that. That stage stays for 2 days, then a quick burnish in Borax and done. I thought you mentioned to me that you had changed things up a bit. I should have tagged you. FWIW, I have some TXP from rocktumbler.com as well. It's pretty old (15 years or so) but it's labled "Micron Aluminum Oxide." Problem is, since there's no number before it I don't know if that means it's actually one micron or not. They obviously rebranded it, as it looks to have a Minnesota Lapidary Supply logo on it as well. Maybe the answer is there, but considering the length of time that has passed, suppliers may have changed. I've used TXP since I started tumbling and have enough to keep me busy for years. Just happened to be what I bought right out of the gate. You may as well use your old stock, just to see what it does. I imagine it will perform as well as any AO polish. You let that stage roll long enough that it isn't going to matter if you start with 1 or 3 micron. Definitely no babysitting the Lot O with the new process, Dave. Starting with AO keeps from having to watch the first stage so closely. The Sic 120/220 stage was giving me trouble keeping a consistent roll when it dried out. I never could get it going again like I wanted it to. Skipping that and doing AO 80 eliminated that problem. I don't think it dries out as bad and it's easier to control the roll.
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Post by aDave on Jul 31, 2018 17:29:33 GMT -5
I thought you mentioned to me that you had changed things up a bit. I should have tagged you. FWIW, I have some TXP from rocktumbler.com as well. It's pretty old (15 years or so) but it's labled "Micron Aluminum Oxide." Problem is, since there's no number before it I don't know if that means it's actually one micron or not. They obviously rebranded it, as it looks to have a Minnesota Lapidary Supply logo on it as well. Maybe the answer is there, but considering the length of time that has passed, suppliers may have changed. I've used TXP since I started tumbling and have enough to keep me busy for years. Just happened to be what I bought right out of the gate. You may as well use your old stock, just to see what it does. I imagine it will perform as well as any AO polish. You let that stage roll long enough that it isn't going to matter if you start with 1 or 3 micron. Definitely no babysitting the Lot O with the new process, Dave. Starting with AO keeps from having to watch the first stage so closely. The Sic 120/220 stage was giving me trouble keeping a consistent roll when it dried out. I never could get it going again like I wanted it to. Skipping that and doing AO 80 eliminated that problem. I don't think it dries out as bad and it's easier to control the roll. You are probably right about the length of time for the higher micron polish. Heck my polish stage is 3 weeks now. The old stuff is sitting on the shelf right now. I'll get to it one day. Besides, you had the size correct for the 3 micron stuff coming from RockTumbler. I had edited above before you posted.
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Post by wigglinrocks on Jul 31, 2018 21:08:57 GMT -5
Sorry I can't be much help on this subject , no help actually . Didn't roll a rock last summer and forgot I even had the 80 here . Just started playing around with AO 120 in the vibe a little while ago .
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Post by Garage Rocker on Jul 31, 2018 22:32:31 GMT -5
No pics to look at this evening, but I messed around and made a short video of one of the rocks out of my last batch with the three step process. Tried something different to show the shine, as opposed to avoiding it in pics.
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Post by TheRock on Jul 31, 2018 22:57:21 GMT -5
I use TXP polish from rocktumbler.com, which is a little larger size grit than what everyone else seems to be using. I believe it is like 8,000 AO, or close to that. That stage stays for 2 days, then a quick burnish in Borax and done. I thought you mentioned to me that you had changed things up a bit. I should have tagged you. FWIW, I have some TXP from rocktumbler.com as well. It's pretty old (15 years or so) but it's labled "Micron Aluminum Oxide." Problem is, since there's no number before it I don't know if that means it's actually one micron or not. They obviously rebranded it, as it looks to have a Minnesota Lapidary Supply logo on it as well. Maybe the answer is there, but considering the length of time that has passed, suppliers may have changed. ETA: Just looked at the rocktumbler.com website, and they list what they sell now as being around 3 microns - 8k like you have now. Last night I beat the bushes too like aDave and that's what I found too I had to go to Johnson brothers Lapidary to get anything smaller than 1 micron. ~Duke
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Aug 1, 2018 4:17:15 GMT -5
AO 5000 or Rock Shed AO 14,000 polishes like AO 50,000 or smaller after a day to 3 days running Mohs 7 rocks depending on vibe and conditions. But keep in mind that many reuse AO polish 3 and 4 or more times. Because it is does not break down in reality, the 1 micron(for instance) particles only get smoother and some what smaller(rounder in shape). Too small for our eyes to see but it is there. That is why it can be reused over and over. It does not break down like silicon carbide, it rounds to smooth particles. To prove that AO particles only get smoother and not much smaller these rocks were polished using AO 22 straight out of coarse SiC in rotary. I put 4 tablespoons of AO 22 in the vibe, 3 days later at clean out I scavenged 3 1/2 tablespoons of smoother AO 22 particles. Polished with AO 22(probably more like AO 50,000): www.flickr.com/photos/67205364@N06/32680336491/in/album-72157681139306525/White(also known as 'fused' aluminum oxide) AO 22 on 1/4 inch lines. Fused is sharp cheap sand blast grade but totally pure AO. After a few hours vibrating with Mohs 7 rocks even AO 22 is harmless to your vibe hoppers. Maybe Garage Rocker is finding white particles in the bottom of his Lot-O after 4-5 days. Look for them at clean out Randy, white 'sand' in the bottom of your Lot-O hopper. Polished white sand.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Aug 1, 2018 6:19:00 GMT -5
AO 220 will also bridge the gap from SiC in rotary to polish if you let the rotary run a few days extra. The 220 preps nice to a fine pre-polish. Dim obsidian out of AO 220 from SiC 60/rotary, ready for Lot-O polish. How ready ? 12 hours to polish in the Lot-O.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Aug 1, 2018 12:32:04 GMT -5
No pics to look at this evening, but I messed around and made a short video of one of the rocks out of my last batch with the three step process. Tried something different to show the shine, as opposed to avoiding it in pics.
Love the shine, love the dogs barking too!
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Post by oregon on Aug 1, 2018 12:49:36 GMT -5
Definitely no babysitting the Lot O with the new process, Dave. Starting with AO keeps from having to watch the first stage so closely. The Sic 120/220 stage was giving me trouble keeping a consistent roll when it dried out. I never could get it going again like I wanted it to. Skipping that and doing AO 80 eliminated that problem. I don't think it dries out as bad and it's easier to control the roll. I usually experience the same with the SiC, too much mud and the roll slows way down before the 48 hr mark. Water doesn't seem to help. Looking forward to trying the AO 80. My gathering of info says about 2tsp per 4.5lb loto barrel is about right, 2-5 days.Then Polish. Gospel of jamesp even though he said 4T/14lb above (I think he's been inhaling too much glass fumes - was always 2T in his previous posts AO22 vs AO80 maybe?) thx
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,178
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Post by jamesp on Aug 1, 2018 13:19:35 GMT -5
Definitely no babysitting the Lot O with the new process, Dave. Starting with AO keeps from having to watch the first stage so closely. The Sic 120/220 stage was giving me trouble keeping a consistent roll when it dried out. I never could get it going again like I wanted it to. Skipping that and doing AO 80 eliminated that problem. I don't think it dries out as bad and it's easier to control the roll. I usually experience the same with the SiC, too much mud and the roll slows way down before the 48 hr mark. Water doesn't seem to help. Looking forward to trying the AO 80. My gathering of info says about 2tsp per 4.5lb loto barrel is about right, 2-5 days.Then Polish. Gospel of jamesp even though he said 4T/14lb above (I think he's been inhaling too much glass fumes - was always 2T in his previous posts AO22 vs AO80 maybe?) thx Lol, found out my scoop is a 2 tablespoon measuring spoon instead of a 1 tablespoon and only recently. So the erroneous info. I do use 2 teaspoons of polish in the Lot-O. Of all the abrasives polish can be the smallest dose. I am sure of one thing, SiC 500 will grind off more meat than AO 220 by far. Be it in rotary or vibe. Found this out using SiC 500 in the rotary on glass. It eats it away and quite fast. I only use SiC's in the rotary. (I)Never use it in the vibe. That's me. I figure the vibe is primarily for finishing operations. AO is cous de gras of finishing abrasive for Mohs 5 to Mohs 7. Enough preaching he ha.
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Post by oregon on Aug 2, 2018 13:08:31 GMT -5
Since this thread was just pulled up for another reference - My couple experiments with AO80 were OK - Certainly less work, but I didn't feel like the shine was as 'nice' as the traditional method, so I've gone back to the four step method. FWIW. Loto instructions while I'm here. just testing out pdfs on the new cloudinary upload... Tommy maybe you want to place this pdf somewhere as a repository, I'm known for cleaning house at times... hmm looks like pdf's just give a link rather than a image.... And Tommy is there anyway to see the pics I've already uploaded, (asking a lot, and not under your control) but suppose I want to link something I already uploaded, do I have to go to cloudinary to get a link I suppose? res.cloudinary.com/korimako/image/upload/v1533233164/gmilftelixqjmpp9fqrb.pdf
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