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Post by fernwood on Oct 26, 2018 7:53:37 GMT -5
I am not going to put anything in the new (used) vibe until I learn as much as I can. Went through many old posts here to get more knowledge, as I have never had a vibe before. Previous owner used it exclusively for rocks.
This is an 18# Chicago Electric model. No, not designed for rocks, but bowl is in perfect shape and the unit runs well. Figured it would help me learn prior to purchasing a new(er) one designed for rocks.
Am numbering my questions for ease of response.
1. Can I run a partial fill? Will only be using this for final Rapid Polish and maybe pre-polish. Mostly cabs and softer rocks. It would take me about 6 months to get enough cabs and softer, more delicate rocks ready. Nothing put in the vibe will have any sharp edges or cracks/crevices. Well, maybe well cleaned crystal vugs in some cabs.
2. Best mediums to use? I have a couple cups of well worn triangle ceramics and about 30 lbs of new glass pellets. Any other suggested mediums? Can I combine the ceramic and glass together to make a full load if needed?
3. The cabs will be a combo of 5 to 7.5 mohs. Rock of 5 to 6. Know I will only need to run rocks/cabs together of similar mohs. What will happen if I run cabs and rocks of similar mohs together?
4. All rough and medium polishing of cabs and rocks will be done in rotary. Cabs will be done with a Dremel or hand techniques. Then started in medium grit. Softer rocks shaped with diamond files, Dremel, even drywall sandpaper. Anything pop out as wrong with this process?
5. is a crazy thought, but wondering if anyone had applied the spray rubber to the inside of a barrel that was not intended for rocks? Saw the possibility mentioned somewhere else.
Thank you for helping out this vibe newbie.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Oct 26, 2018 8:41:10 GMT -5
1) no, they are usually tuned for the rated load. Chunk small gravel in for additional weight. 2) quartz or granite base grave does great job. Especially after they have been run a few times - i.e. re-use 3) Mohs 5 to 7 run well together but Mohs 5/6 may not polish well. Don't blame your machine blame the rocks. 4) No, pre-shaping is always a good idea regardless of tool type used 5) Why coat it. I get wet shine on glass in a steel vibe hopper with no coating.
For the first run it is a good idea to load her up with quartz pea gravel. Make some media for further use many times in the future. quartz pea gravel has been my favorite media for glass agate obsidian rhyolite wood jasper. The more time you run the same quartz pea gravel the better it gets. Nice and smooth. I treasure my quartz pea gravel. Sometimes run a batch just to have extra inventory. You can go spend money on ceramics, the peas will do about equal job.
18 pound capacity, OMG a monster. Yes, you best good a good supply of quartz PG. You can run 2 pounds of cabs and 16 pounds of pea gravel. I usually use 6 to 8 pounds of QPG in every run in the 14 pound vibe. It is hard to find 14 pounds of target glass/rocks at times.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 26, 2018 9:17:46 GMT -5
Thanks jamesp. I have about two, 5 gallon pails of pea gravel left. About an ice cream pail of pea gravel that has been through polish stage. Also a pail of rounded sand, aka frack sand. The coating was to protect the barrel. Since I am only going to be put items in that are not sharp, it probably would not be needed, correct? Should I be tumbling some granite counter scraps for additional medium? Crush that first, then run through all tumbling stages with nothing else? I can get more granite counter scraps that are not that pretty, lol. Like I said, only got this because the price was right. 4) Thanks for the confidence vote. Appreciate your comments.
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pizzano
Cave Dweller
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,390
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Post by pizzano on Oct 26, 2018 11:22:06 GMT -5
I am not going to put anything in the new (used) vibe until I learn as much as I can. Went through many old posts here to get more knowledge, as I have never had a vibe before. Previous owner used it exclusively for rocks. This is an 18# Chicago Electric model. No, not designed for rocks, but bowl is in perfect shape and the unit runs well. Figured it would help me learn prior to purchasing a new(er) one designed for rocks. Am numbering my questions for ease of response. 1. Can I run a partial fill? Will only be using this for final Rapid Polish and maybe pre-polish. Mostly cabs and softer rocks. It would take me about 6 months to get enough cabs and softer, more delicate rocks ready. Nothing put in the vibe will have any sharp edges or cracks/crevices. Well, maybe well cleaned crystal vugs in some cabs. 2. Best mediums to use? I have a couple cups of well worn triangle ceramics and about 30 lbs of new glass pellets. Any other suggested mediums? Can I combine the ceramic and glass together to make a full load if needed? 3. The cabs will be a combo of 5 to 7.5 mohs. Rock of 5 to 6. Know I will only need to run rocks/cabs together of similar mohs. What will happen if I run cabs and rocks of similar mohs together? 4. All rough and medium polishing of cabs and rocks will be done in rotary. Cabs will be done with a Dremel or hand techniques. Then started in medium grit. Softer rocks shaped with diamond files, Dremel, even drywall sandpaper. Anything pop out as wrong with this process? 5. is a crazy thought, but wondering if anyone had applied the spray rubber to the inside of a barrel that was not intended for rocks? Saw the possibility mentioned somewhere else. Thank you for helping out this vibe newbie. Wow....18 pounder.
Never worked with that size, everything I do is on a much smaller scale 6lb to 7lb batches.
1. I believe regardless of size, that vibes are much more efficient ran 3/4 to max full....keeping the liquid ratios very low. Slurry development in a vibe is a bit different than a rotary depending on the type media pre/polish being used. Best results are achieved when there is no standing liquid floating/splashing around at the bottom surface.
2. Have no experience with pea gravel. I use ceramics of various sizes and shapes. Nothing with abrasive additives. The quantity regardless of stone size is always at least half of the stone quantity.
3. Running cabs and rocks together of similar mohs should not be a problem in a vibe since you are polishing not grinding especially with various sizes of ceramics. That's why I use ceramics, the "tumbling" action in a vibe is much more forgiving and since the stones will be rolling around horizontally and vertically, their surfaces are continuously being covered with media.
4. I preform everything I vibe now. Speeds up the vibe process and makes it much easier to determine which stones are going to turn out nice when doing the occasional inspect during the process. What you describe as your "preform" methods should be just fine.
5. I wouldn't even consider applying any compound to the inside of the bowl surfaces due to the fact that it will eventually wear off causing more of a mess than it's worth trying to protect the bowl surface. Although your vibe bowl may not be intended for stones, I used a Chicago Electric 5lb vibe for awhile with a bowl made of similar material as yours. I grinded and polished in that bowl. It never showed any more wear than my TV-5 bowls do now. I quit using it because it was very noisy and really was not made for wet use. Never could get the bowl to seal properly and TV-5 bowls did not fit on it properly causing balance and rotation issues with the stone. internal circulation.
One last thought, you'll find developing a slurry to be a bit tricky at first........it comes with the territory vibing.......practice and patients are the key. Don't feel to bad if one or two of your first attempts need to be poured out and restarted, there's no other way to fix a bad mix with vibes.....to wet cannot be remedied with more media and to dry is tricky to get just right, but easier to refine than to wet..........the key is to add liquid in the beginning very sparingly........and start with moist stones and media first........at leats that's what has worked for me.
Have fun......!.........you'll get this down in no time...!
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Post by johnjsgems on Oct 26, 2018 11:28:12 GMT -5
You might check reviews on the Chicago Electric vibe used for rocks. I know the smaller units had weak motors for rock work. Lighter filler (like ceramics) may help if that is the case. All vibes as far as I know need to be full to work properly. The rocks generally rotate from top to bottom. For cabs and other flats you need about 3/4 by volume of filler.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 26, 2018 17:49:14 GMT -5
Thanks for the great suggestions and advice. I'll get by with a little help from my (RTH) friends......
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Oct 27, 2018 5:11:47 GMT -5
fernwoodThis is a hand picked load of pea gravel. Note quality. No sharp edges or cracked ones, nice oval to round shape. These are my key to vibe success. They serve as ball bearings making the batch roll with fluidity. Plenty hard enough to break down aluminum oxides of all grit sizes when running softer like obsidian and glass. The local landscape company that sells pea gravel like this by the ton is used to me laying on their pile picking the best. I rarely pick more than half a 5 gallon bucket these high graders before I get stove up in 2-3 hour's time. And I have to force them to take $5 for the half bucket. I believe they sell it for $100/ton. They do make beautiful tumbles at the same time. Cheapest vibe fodder you can find ! I usually run them in SiC 220 in the rotary before tossing them in the vibe. After that they never see the inside of a rotary.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 27, 2018 5:28:28 GMT -5
Thanks.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Oct 27, 2018 5:44:35 GMT -5
You can run a batch to see if you succeed. Most vibes designed for metals are of higher amplitude meaning they shake more violently. Most rotaries designed for metals rotate faster and is of no consequence IF using thicker slurry. Metal vibes are bad about beating rocks up. And not so easy to protect against. Thicker slurry is not as effective in vibes as it is in rotaries. The smaller the rocks the less chance for bruising due to an overly aggressive vibe. So the pea gravel may be your best first run...
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rads
spending too much on rocks
Making clay each day!
Member since April 2018
Posts: 318
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Post by rads on Oct 27, 2018 10:22:00 GMT -5
Well, my two cents. I use the 18# Chicago for all my polishing, with all other stages in tumblers. It does not like to be partially filled, you will see the rocks pinging around at the top if you have the load too small. I did use plastic pellets until recently, but I am sick to death of trying to recover them. So, they have been replaced with ceramic media that was run through all grit stages first before becoming my polish only media. I also add in other smalls (Jasper, Agate Quartz) that are fillers. When there 10 or 12 cabs ready, I run all of it together. I do add fine walnut shell as a buffer and use closed cell foam (pipe wrap) cut into very small squares......they do something odd that is very helpful, they will not sink into the mix and tend to gather right at the center where the rocks are heading back down into the mix. The closed cell doesn't do anything but buffer that center area from bruising. With 20 percent off and a 2 year warranty.....I have abused it the first few times to see how it would hold up. It did, even with 22 lbs in it.. Advice.....remove the hose they have on it for a drain, it is very thin walled and will fail while vibrating....replace with thicker wall tubing and put a clamp on it. Take the empty bowl and run it first, then tighten the lower thumbscrew against the rubber seal. It will leak a bit if you don't run it first. When putting the lid on, install the thumbscrew turned over (upside down) and let it run for 30 seconds and re-snug the thumbscrew...wait 10 seconds and tighten one more time. It will stay in place for days if you do this, it will come loose if you don't. (learn from my fails) This has become longer than I intended. Sorry, good machine for the money.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 27, 2018 15:28:40 GMT -5
rads Thanks for the tips. Appreciate advice from someone who has this vibe and uses it for rocks. I did not see a hose drain on mine, so maybe previous owner removed it. He had used this for final 2 stages of polishing with no problems. Like the tip about using pipe wrap. I have lots of that. Have well polished ceramic media and lots of glass pellet media. Cannot really say what I paid for it, as it was part of a package deal that included a duel Thumbler, lots of polishes/grits, tumbling media and some rough rocks. Looking forward to this adventure.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,182
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Post by jamesp on Oct 28, 2018 7:27:20 GMT -5
Beware of ceramic media that was not purchased from The Rock Shed or some other ROCK tumbling supply company fernwood. There is many kinds of ceramic media. Some are designed to assist polish, others are designed to cut. And cut they will. If it is cutting media it will cut your hopper to shreds. I learned that one the hard way. I purchased some high density zirconium ceramic media(instead of aluminum oxide ceramic) cut into my polyurethane Vibrasonic hopper liner like butter. And the Vibrasonic is noted for being able to run silicon carbide 80 without damage, a most durable lining in it. It 'looked' like any other ceramic media. But it is difficult to know what type you have without having the specifications of it. It can be zirconium or aluminum oxide based ceramic media. If it has black spots in the media it is about gaurenteed cutting media with silicon carbide fused into it. Even if it does not tear your hopper up it most likely mess up your polish. The Rock Shed has the correct "polishing ceramic media". Interesting, reading Kramer Industries write up on their various grades of ceramic media I was educated about density. For soft metals they use lower density. For harder metals they use high density. The folly of using high density on soft metals like aluminum was that it would destroy it by bending the edges and corners lol. Most aluminum oxide media is about 3.7 grams/cc, but some zirconia can go up to 6 grams/cc. The higher density ceramic media greatly increases impingement forces and can be used for peening metal surfaces. That is my shpeel on ceramic media for what it is worth. I have a $150 worth of zirconia media you can have - kidding. It will ruin your hopper in 4 days.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 28, 2018 8:11:27 GMT -5
All the ceramic I have is some well worn stuff the previous owner had used many times.
Thanks for the warning.
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Post by toiv0 on Oct 28, 2018 10:13:43 GMT -5
You must got the tumblers from the guy moving to Tucson. I sent a friend over to look at it and he bought it. Asked him about vibratory and Lakers and he said they were gone.
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Post by fernwood on Oct 29, 2018 5:17:29 GMT -5
I only took about 6 Lakers from the 2 pails he had. Yes, I purchased the tumblers from him.
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