NRG
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Member since February 2018
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Post by NRG on Nov 13, 2018 14:45:11 GMT -5
In another thread a number of members spoke of their own divorce. It prompted me to start a thread about divorce and the human condition. The concept I wanted to relay was mentioned to me by a former lover. Here is her thought: Humans aren't generally able to pair bond for much more than 20 years. Let me explain. The ancestral humans died at a much younger age. For example, 500 years ago, 20 years was a real long time to be an adult. We pair bonded and mated monogamously until we died. This started soon after puberty and 20 years was a good long time. Fast forward to today. We live 50-60 years past puberty. We marry (pair bond) with the same expectation of "until death do us part". Except for the vast majority of us, approximately 20 years is about all we accomplish. Her point isn't that we are a failure because of this. Her point is this is natural. In our genetic makeup. Yes, some marry until death. When we meet or see couples with 50 or sixty or even 70 years of marriage, we are in awe. They have different genes than most of us. Seems right to me. I'll open the thread to any and all posts pertaining to divorce. Our thoughts, our experiences, our encouragements..... whatever you want to add is great. We can all grow.
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Post by parfive on Nov 13, 2018 15:24:31 GMT -5
“She is my rock, but sometimes I feel like hitting her with one.”
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Post by MsAli on Nov 13, 2018 16:02:28 GMT -5
I am 5 years out of a 23 year marriage. Not a very good one, and its a marriage that should of ended before it got to the point it did.
There is a saying I like that says "In order to heal a wound, you have to stop touching it" So, I dont tell my story very often anymore.
I will say that anyone that is going through a divorce or going through hell in general I am hear to listen and offer some words of encouragement and advice. And i'll always share the story if it helps someone else get through a breakup/divorce.
I am a HUGE believer in everything for a reason and sometimes crap happens to get us off a path we are not longer meant to be on. God works sometimes in really strange and not always warm and fuzzy ways.
I really believe in Love still, I believe there is someone out there for me. Will it be till the end? Who knows? I don't have God's manuscript for my life so for all I know maybe I will be old, single with my pretty rocks and cats? I am fine and very happy with whatever happens.
and I have a whole new way of looking at relationships and this whole dating stuff.
Anyways some of my rambling thoughts: I'm not sure I agree with your former lovers train of thought. To me it sounds like a convenient excuse for maybe her failed relationships ?
There are hundreds of long term successful marriages/partnerships. There are people who make it work. And work is a dirty word to most when it comes to relationships. Easier to throw in the towel and bail . I mean why not? Just find someone else right? Blame it on its not in our genes right?
And that right there lies the problem, I don't think it has anything to do with our genes. It has to do with our mentality on relationships
I chalk a lot of the failed marriages up to laziness and the grass is greener complex. He/she will make me happier than who I am with, etc. Why should I invest in what I have when I already have it. Date my wife or husband? GASSPPP. We come up with excuses, kids, work, school, whatever, we fail to make time for each other OF COURSE IT IS GOING TO BE ALL FUN IN THE BEGINNING OF A RELATIONSHIP! Its those that still have fun together years down the road that make it work
Too many "settle" for someone in the first place. We rush too fast into it. We confuse lust with love We dont date like we use to. There is no "courtship". We go from 0-100 in 2.2 seconds Many go into a relationship desperate to find happiness they think another brings them. I call these people "needy" and generally they look for happiness elsewhere in everything in life, and fail to find it within themselves Many also "forgive" things in the beginning of a relationship thinking they will change them once it gets serious. If you dont like something about someone to begin with what makes you think you'll like it 3, 5, 10, 20 years from now? Or you change yourself and become chameleon to suite whoever it is at the time you are with. Its not really the true you. All of this is destined to set up failure. And you'll see these people in several different relationships within short amounts of time. Serial daters or serial marriages. Fail, repeat, fail, repeat, fail, repeat and then they blame "LOVE" or have "Trust issues" when they keep choosing the same "type" over and over again. Lessons never learned No good men or women left, blah, blah, blah
God forbid if you actually stay single for a while and work on yourself for awhile
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NRG
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Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Nov 13, 2018 16:13:32 GMT -5
I too am 5 years out of a 23 year marriage. I'm completely at peace with it. We both are. We are better friends now than when together. It wasn't toxic. But uncomfortable. We are both better off. That is all the story there is.
I hope you can get there also.
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Post by MsAli on Nov 13, 2018 16:30:23 GMT -5
I too am 5 years out of a 23 year marriage. I'm completely at peace with it. We both are. We are better friends now than when together. It wasn't toxic. But uncomfortable. We are both better off. That is all the story there is. I hope you can get there also. I am at peace. You have no clue how much peace is in my heart and head when I lay down at night. When I say freedom, it isn't because I am single. Cant really explain it Like I said the marriage had to end. I will never call him a friend because well friends dont do each other like he did. But, I can talk to him and have actually been at his moms house for the holidays with him and his girlfriend (the last one I caught him with) That was a hoot. More uncomfortable for him and his girlfriend than it was for me. His family loves me and our daughter. He has a hard time with things still more than I do. Grass wasn't that dam green I'll tell you that much. I was telling someone not that long ago that not everyone is meant to stay forever. Getting a divorce isn't the worse thing in life. Staying in a marriage that is toxic or uncomfortable is far more damaging than a divorce is. Especially if kids are involved. I did a HUGE disservice to my daughter by not showing her what a good marriage is and staying in an ugly one. Her and I talk a lot about that and that is still something I am working on forgiving myself for It is also a big reason why I haven't dated much. I want to show her that being single can be fabulous
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
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Post by gemfeller on Nov 14, 2018 0:11:54 GMT -5
The human condition (marriage-wise) was wisely summed up in this short verse, author probably Ogden Nash but that's debated:
Hogamous higamus Men are polygamous; Higamus hogamus Women monogamous
Having been through a terrible marriage/divorce followed by a wonderful and long marriage, I think men mellow with age. But that's debatable too.
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Post by mohs on Nov 14, 2018 9:43:12 GMT -5
I have a lot to say about dissolution But I try to take good counsel And not pick at open wounds ha ha the above poem tho reminds me of one of my own creations Man ishumans are petty and small & not magnanimous At all
~ mohs To see it all blown up BOOM Like wrecking ball this morning, for me tho, is exciting just finished helping out with the fixing of the timing belt on my bucket of bolts and actually reconditioning the car Back to its cool Celica charm ! So I'm stoked about that worthy partner….
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Post by MsAli on Nov 14, 2018 10:26:20 GMT -5
I dont think men are prone to cheat any more than a woman is To say that men are is disrespectful to all the men who are faithful I will tell you a wounded man will stay wounded way longer than a woman will I think it's an ego thing
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Post by rockjunquie on Nov 14, 2018 11:35:07 GMT -5
As someone who has been married 3 times, I'll chime in. My first marriage was hell on earth. I tried to make it work for the kids. We did counseling, separations, everything, but it was not meant to be. I married secondly to my knight in shining armor on the rebound and to protect custody of my kids. He had a mistress- alcohol. That didn't last. I married thirdly to my soulmate. We've been together for 23 years. Not only am I monogamous, but I am more than happy to be so. I know I'll never be with anyone else and I'm satisfied with that. I absolutely trust that he will be faithful.
I have had more male friends than women over the years having worked in male dominated fields. I have met many good men who put up with a lot from their women and remain faithful. I have met more raunchy women than men. I like men. Sorry guys- but, men are pretty simple- as DH always says. Doesn't take a whole lot to keep them happy, for the most part. I have found that most men are pretty romantic and want to be involved in a good relationship.
I probably came from the last generation of women who were raised to get married and have kids. Growing up, I wanted to be a teacher and married with kids. I wanted what my parents had. They stayed married to the grave. It wasn't always easy. I saw that. I knew marriage wasn't all roses and picket fences.
On the other hand, I have a distaste, as a woman, for the institution of marriage. I kept my maiden name and don't wear a wedding ring. I'm not a feminist. I just want to be an authentic me. I have always thought that a good relationship has three entities in it. Man, woman (or whatever) and couple. I think people have to remain themselves, even embracing the inevitable change, in order to be a happy person able to bring an authentic self to a relationship. Me and DH have grown together. We're not both the same people anymore, but we have embraced and grown with the changes. It takes being aware and patience and communication.
I do believe that people can be monogamous. I also believe that most people would choose that. I don't know if it is a natural state, but it feels natural to me. I think being able to stay monogamous says something about character, too. Giving in to an idea that monogamy is unnatural is like drawing up a prenuptial before marriage. Why go into it expecting failure?
Having said that- I am also a live and let live kinda person. Whatever floats your boat as long as you aren't hurting anybody. My daughter has been with her mate for 13 years and they have had an open relationship the whole time. However, her mate is monogamous. I really don't get it. He worships her, so I just don't understand how he can live like that. But, it's worked for 13 years.
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NRG
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since February 2018
Posts: 1,630
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Post by NRG on Nov 14, 2018 11:36:16 GMT -5
The human condition (marriage-wise) was wisely summed up in this short verse, author probably Ogden Nash but that's debated: Hogamous higamus Men are polygamous; Higamus hogamus Women monogamous Having been through a terrible marriage/divorce followed by a wonderful and long marriage, I think men mellow with age. But that's debatable too. I wonder why men get heat for cheating yet women never ever get similar heat for failing to "love, honor and cherish", denying her husband the physical attention his body requires. Most often the latter significantly precedes the former.
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Post by mohs on Nov 14, 2018 12:41:44 GMT -5
Its the real deal to read about my rock pals difficulties, struggles and triumphs/ At my station in life- human truthfulness- means so much. It always has - and I don't want to leave this earth in shallow lies. Rock on deep... let it roll philo …..mosalty Anyway for any who are experiencing dissolution I don’t have much advice besides Hang tough- chin up Ed Plus let me remark That I just drove my charming Celica To get breakfast at WahtaBurger WhatAPleasure indeed Marriage to Celica was major rebuild
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Post by MsAli on Nov 14, 2018 14:10:07 GMT -5
The human condition (marriage-wise) was wisely summed up in this short verse, author probably Ogden Nash but that's debated: Hogamous higamus Men are polygamous; Higamus hogamus Women monogamous Having been through a terrible marriage/divorce followed by a wonderful and long marriage, I think men mellow with age. But that's debatable too. I wonder why men get heat for cheating yet women never ever get similar heat for failing to "love, honor and cherish", denying her husband the physical attention his body requires. Most often the latter significantly precedes the former. Im going to ask Are you saying the reason men cheat is because the woman is failing to do her job at home? Is that why my husband had multiple affairs and then came home to me sometimes the same day and I "fulfilled" my duties. Do you have any clue how disgusting that was to find out that he left the bed of another and came home to our bed. Didn't love, cherish and honor him? Do you know that he refused to divorce me? Do you how many times since Ive heard since how much he screwed up? Do you know how many times I've heard I didn't deserve what he did? I was a great wife and mother, blah blah blah You should of heard the names I got called when 1 year after our divorce I went on a date. That was a hoot. Love cherish and honor him? You have no clue what I did for that man. No clue what I put up with and tolerated for years. I was a IDIOT! The stuff I found out afterwards that he did blew me away. Best one he took money from my account, lied to me why he took the money (To pay for a business expense) and payed for an attorney because one of the woman claimed he raped her. That's the one he got pregnant BTW (Oh and he did ask if she kept the child would I be willing to help raise it) Cant make this crap up if I tried. What about the woman that cheat on the men? What was the man not doing that she had to seek it elsewhere? Where was he failing in the relationship? What husband "duties" did he fail to perform? I've known woman to cheat on GREAT men. What kind of person even has an affair with someone that is married? What low self-esteem issues do they have that they need to seek a relationship with someone that is already in one? What makes them think that Wow, he/she is fooling around on their spouse, I think ill sleep with them, because Hey their a GREAT person. DONT ever think cheating is the fault of the wife or the husband. Its the fault of the person cheating and the fault of the person they are cheating with
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Post by mohs on Nov 14, 2018 14:49:34 GMT -5
I’m not sure how to teach unwary souls who stumble into relationships w/ the best intents About all the ugly nasty traps that may be awaiting through sex, lies, lusty egos, and the reality of funked up human behavior At least half of all marriages go south A quarter of those are just really nasty affairs For the other half of marriages a quarter of them are fairly long love fests The other quarter is just a one long yelling whatsamutterforuships passing by each other You big stupid idiot!! Yeah ?! well.... your no cupcake yourself…m stly
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Post by MsAli on Nov 14, 2018 14:56:49 GMT -5
So Ed is one just to give up and protect thier hearts forever? Give up on the idea of love ? Better to be alone right then ever go through that pain again? Because it is pain. If someone tells you one has never died of a broken heart, well they themselves dont have a clue
But, Phoenixes are born from ashes
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Post by mohs on Nov 14, 2018 15:11:38 GMT -5
Thanks for asking Ali
love & relationship is all that matter to me that may be foolish philosophy but being that I've gotten this far to this mild equator i wont change my soul now
Being Single is fine Being Alone is a tough gig Dissassociative isolationism
Personally for me I'm not sure what bothers me more? My divorce or that I never could never attract another true committed partner ?
I just know= I need to make peace w/both If I'm to leave this earth somewhat satisfied…
anyway that the best i know....
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Post by MsAli on Nov 14, 2018 15:22:04 GMT -5
Thanks for asking Ali love & relationship is all that matter to me that may be foolish philosophy but being that I've gotten this far to this mild equator i wont change my soul now Being Single is fine Being Alone is a tough gig Dissassociative isolationism Personally for me I'm not sure what bothers me more? My divorce or that I never could never attract another true committed partner ? I just know= I need to make peace w/both If I'm to leave this earth somewhat satisfied… anyway that the best i know.... There is a lot of freedom in being single and I really dont believe we are "alone". Sure we may miss some things that come along with having a "partner", and have feelings of "loneliness", but we are never truly alone Love is the only thing that matters and that includes loving yourself. Love yourself enough to know that you do deserve a loving, committed relationship. So I say, Maybe, my dear you just haven't met the one that you are suppose to be with yet. Faith that things didnt work out because there is another that we are destined to be with? Isn't life about timing? Serendipity I like to think so anyways
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Post by mohs on Nov 14, 2018 15:37:17 GMT -5
good philo & tune Alison yearning keeps soul/spirit Soaring & rock’n the hearts!
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NRG
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Member since February 2018
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Post by NRG on Nov 14, 2018 15:52:05 GMT -5
MsAliI was speaking in generalities, in reply to another members post. I make no comment or judgement of you. Sounds like your ex was a pig. Sad for you on that count. Huggz
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Post by MsAli on Nov 14, 2018 16:05:49 GMT -5
MsAli I was speaking in generalities, in reply to another members post. I make no comment or judgement of you. Sounds like your ex was a pig. Sad for you on that count. Huggz Hugs back That touched the wound. One would think it would be scared over enough by now, but every now and then . Pig is an understatement, but I have no ill will. I really hope he is happy now and his relationship he has now is a good one and please, dont be sad for me. It had to get really bad for me to leave Do you think sometimes God says Ok they are not listening so I have to put them through hell to wake them up? I sure do I really do believe that we all have this path and that was mine, now I am on another. Changed me in ways I will always be grateful for
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NRG
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Member since February 2018
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Post by NRG on Nov 14, 2018 17:50:18 GMT -5
MsAli I was speaking in generalities, in reply to another members post. I make no comment or judgement of you. Sounds like your ex was a pig. Sad for you on that count. Huggz Hugs back That touched the wound. One would think it would be scared over enough by now, but every now and then . Pig is an understatement, but I have no ill will. I really hope he is happy now and his relationship he has now is a good one and please, dont be sad for me. It had to get really bad for me to leave Do you think sometimes God says Ok they are not listening so I have to put them through hell to wake them up? I sure do I really do believe that we all have this path and that was mine, now I am on another. Changed me in ways I will always be grateful for It would seem based on your statements that you are on one path, your path, and this segment is much finer. My belief is free choice, not fate. I would prefer to believe we are not actually subjects of a computer simulator. Fate implies this.
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