markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jun 1, 2022 13:56:55 GMT -5
When you open a barrel after tumbling and have the gunky, clay-like slurry at the bottom, is that an indication of using too much grit, or is it just the accumulation of the particles of rock that have been ground away? I guess I though it meant I had added too much grit and I was adjusting back to less and less to find the magic amount.
I find that most of others seem to be using a LOT more grit than I am in stage 1 of a rotary tumbler. Thus, in my extremely limited experience, I'm finding I get quicker action in rounding sharp edges in stage 1 by filling the barrel only 3/4 full, and keeping my water level down to 1-1.5 inches below the rocks. When I do this I can hear the difference in the action and I'm able to pull out any rocks that don't have surface blemishes on them in just 2-3 days.
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Wooferhound
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Lortone QT66 and 3A
Member since December 2016
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Post by Wooferhound on Jun 1, 2022 14:08:16 GMT -5
The heavy pieces settle to the bottom. If you remove the barrel from the tumbler and set it ...
Down with the lid on top, everything will settle to the Round side away from the lid - or - Curved side down with the lid on the side. Then everything will settle to the curved side facing downwards
There should be some sludge settling to the bottom when the barrel stops it's motion. You are using an Abrasive to make Mud out of Rocks .
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Post by greig on Jun 1, 2022 15:02:13 GMT -5
I have experienced lots of "mud" when tumbling almandine garnet and fluorite. I think the rocks were in there too long.
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Post by Bob on Jun 2, 2022 22:24:32 GMT -5
It can also mean a barrel rotating too slowly, such as shaft slippage.
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jun 3, 2022 15:07:16 GMT -5
It can also mean a barrel rotating too slowly, such as shaft slippage. Hmmm Bob , it's a new tumbling machine first used in early March 2022. I wonder if too much weight of rocks and water in the barrel, could cause the shaft slippage you speak of. I have to admit when I first started out it was difficult to fill the barrel only 2/3 full, but I now use a ruler to show me where to stop. I've also been keeping the water at 1 to 1.5 inches below the rocks, not just below the tops, as others suggest. I can certainly hear the difference in the tumble with less water and the rocks shape up much quicker. I've been ending my tumbles in 3/4 days because many of my rocks are river polished and seem to reach good stage 2 condition sooner. Results of recent Stage 1 tumbles shown below (Jasper/Agates/Pet Wood): 5/20-24: 3 TBS 80 grit, rough J/A/Pw mix, H2O just below rock tops = thick mud at bottom of both barrels 5/24-27: 2 TBS 80 grit, rough J/A/Pw mix, H2O just below rock tops = mud at bottom of both barrels 5/27-29: 1.5 TBS 80 grit, rough Breciatted Jasper, H2O 1" below rock tops = light trace mud at bottom 5/29-31: *half rocks out and replaced with rough + 1/2 TBS 80 grit recharge 6/03: *No mud and only 3 rocks need Stage 1 retumble. Next I try Stage 2 in Vibratory Tumbler to see how things do. Should be interesting. Thanks for the feedback!
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Post by Bob on Jun 3, 2022 16:26:26 GMT -5
It can also mean a barrel rotating too slowly, such as shaft slippage. Hmmm Bob , it's a new tumbling machine first used in early March 2022. I wonder if too much weight of rocks and water in the barrel, could cause the shaft slippage you speak of. I have to admit when I first started out it was difficult to fill the barrel only 2/3 full, but I now use a ruler to show me where to stop. I've also been keeping the water at 1 to 1.5 inches below the rocks, not just below the tops, as others suggest. I can certainly hear the difference in the tumble with less water and the rocks shape up much quicker. I've been ending my tumbles in 3/4 days because many of my rocks are river polished and seem to reach good stage 2 condition sooner. Results of recent Stage 1 tumbles shown below (Jasper/Agates/Pet Wood): 5/20-24: 3 TBS 80 grit, rough J/A/Pw mix, H2O just below rock tops = thick mud at bottom of both barrels 5/24-27: 2 TBS 80 grit, rough J/A/Pw mix, H2O just below rock tops = mud at bottom of both barrels 5/27-29: 1.5 TBS 80 grit, rough Breciatted Jasper, H2O 1" below rock tops = light trace mud at bottom 5/29-31: *half rocks out and replaced with rough + 1/2 TBS 80 grit recharge 6/03: *No mud and only 3 rocks need Stage 1 retumble. Next I try Stage 2 in Vibratory Tumbler to see how things do. Should be interesting. Thanks for the feedback! If the tumbler is new like that, it's very unlikely to be a slippage problem. So my only other guess is you might have been using too little water.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Jun 3, 2022 17:34:30 GMT -5
How thick are we talking? A watery slurry that sloshes around, partially melted soft serve ice cream, or rocks cemented to the walls of the barrel with a donut hole in the middle?
Rock donut is too thick.
Many shoot for almost soft serve.
Watery is okay-ish.
As soon as the barrel stops the slurry starts settling immediately. SiC is heavier, so even worn out SiC settles quick, seen as a blueish-gray-black substance.
I add a shot of kitty litter to help jump start the slurry generation, but I tend to be conservative with how much I use. By throwing any oddball pretty rock in the barrel, the hardness could be all over the place. A few unknown soft rocks could take my slurry past soft serve and into rock donut territory, which is bad. It's a balance of rocks, grit, water, and optional thickeners to hit the sweet spot for optimal grinding.
Many do a recharge at 3-4 days, meaning they pop it open to add more SiC and button it up again. That's because their SiC is already worn out. This aligns with your timeline, so I think you're probably alright. If it's not rock donut then warp speed Mr. Sulu.
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jun 3, 2022 17:35:54 GMT -5
Hmmm Bob , it's a new tumbling machine first used in early March 2022. I wonder if too much weight of rocks and water in the barrel, could cause the shaft slippage you speak of. I have to admit when I first started out it was difficult to fill the barrel only 2/3 full, but I now use a ruler to show me where to stop. I've also been keeping the water at 1 to 1.5 inches below the rocks, not just below the tops, as others suggest. I can certainly hear the difference in the tumble with less water and the rocks shape up much quicker. I've been ending my tumbles in 3/4 days because many of my rocks are river polished and seem to reach good stage 2 condition sooner. Results of recent Stage 1 tumbles shown below (Jasper/Agates/Pet Wood): 5/20-24: 3 TBS 80 grit, rough J/A/Pw mix, H2O just below rock tops = thick mud at bottom of both barrels 5/24-27: 2 TBS 80 grit, rough J/A/Pw mix, H2O just below rock tops = mud at bottom of both barrels 5/27-29: 1.5 TBS 80 grit, rough Breciatted Jasper, H2O 1" below rock tops = light trace mud at bottom 5/29-31: *half rocks out and replaced with rough + 1/2 TBS 80 grit recharge 6/03: *No mud and only 3 rocks need Stage 1 retumble. Next I try Stage 2 in Vibratory Tumbler to see how things do. Should be interesting. Thanks for the feedback! If the tumbler is new like that, it's very unlikely to be a slippage problem. So my only other guess is you might have been using too little water. Well, when I was getting most of the mud I was using more water, but now that I'm using less, it seems to be better. LOL, who knows!
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jun 3, 2022 17:45:09 GMT -5
How thick are we talking? A watery slurry that sloshes around, partially melted soft serve ice cream, or rocks cemented to the walls of the barrel with a donut hole in the middle? Rock donut is too thick. Many shoot for almost soft serve. Watery is okay-ish. As soon as the barrel stops the slurry starts settling immediately. SiC is heavier, so even worn out SiC settles quick, seen as a blueish-gray-black substance. I add a shot of kitty litter to help jump start the slurry generation, but I tend to be conservative with how much I use. By throwing any oddball pretty rock in the barrel, the hardness could be all over the place. A few unknown soft rocks could take my slurry past soft serve and into rock donut territory, which is bad. It's a balance of rocks, grit, water, and optional thickeners to hit the sweet spot for optimal grinding. Many do a recharge at 3-4 days, meaning they pop it open to add more SiC and button it up again. That's because their SiC is already worn out. This aligns with your timeline, so I think you're probably alright. If it's not rock donut then warp speed Mr. Sulu. When I was using 3 TBS, I'd end up with 3/4" mud at the bottom, and often a stone or two would be embedded into it. It didn't seem to me like it was the natural stuff that would settle down after the tumble, but thicker and more permanent. I would need to scrape it loose with my fingers. Now that I'm using 1.5 TBS and less water (1-1.5" from top of rocks), it doesn't seem to be there. Of course there is slurry in the water, but that's not what I mean. I wonder if different water from areas of the country plays a part in this. Our water in Oregon is all natural and doesn't need softening. The water where I grew up was hard, and needed softening. Could make for a good study, but there are so many different variables like kinds of rocks, how you stack them into the barrel, average size of stones, etc... that it could also be a nightmare.
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Jun 3, 2022 18:15:09 GMT -5
Kind of sounds like you may have had some rocks get stuck. I think you mentioned in another thread you were using a 3lb barrel?
When you load, do you give it a test roll to make sure everything is moving? I roll and shake mine until I can feel that the rocks in the bottom of the barrel have dislodged and are moving around.
The rocks can get stuck when it's rolling if they're maybe a bit too big, or by coincidence a few lock together. I see it happen more in the smaller barrels, particularly when I'm pushing the rock size limits of what can fit in the barrel.
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markb
Cave Dweller
Member since May 2022
Posts: 472
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Post by markb on Jun 3, 2022 20:55:19 GMT -5
Kind of sounds like you may have had some rocks get stuck. I think you mentioned in another thread you were using a 3lb barrel? When you load, do you give it a test roll to make sure everything is moving? I roll and shake mine until I can feel that the rocks in the bottom of the barrel have dislodged and are moving around. The rocks can get stuck when it's rolling if they're maybe a bit too big, or by coincidence a few lock together. I see it happen more in the smaller barrels, particularly when I'm pushing the rock size limits of what can fit in the barrel. I hadn't heard of test rolling the barrel, but that makes good sense! What, me, pushing the rock size limits of what I can fit into the barrel? *sigh, yes, it's true, I'm a rock limit pusher. Probably time to join RLP Anonymous. ugg!
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Benathema
has rocks in the head
God chased me down and made sure I knew He was real June 20, 2022. I've been on a Divine Mission.
Member since November 2019
Posts: 703
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Post by Benathema on Jun 4, 2022 0:09:42 GMT -5
*sigh, yes, it's true, I'm a rock limit pusher. Probably time to join RLP Anonymous. ugg! ... ... Does anyone else wanna tell him, or should I? Lol
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