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Post by HankRocks on Jan 22, 2024 7:11:51 GMT -5
Before we get too far, what type tumbler do you have? And what grits do you have, and most importantly what polish do you have. If you can post some pictures of your batch so we can get an idea of the type rocks in your first batch and the mix of sizes.
One thing you will find is that everyone out here has a different method. I must have 5 or 6 different methods with each specific to what I am tumbling.
I would also suggest that you start with less expensive rocks. You can learn with those and get a method established and then move on to better rocks. If you live in an area that you can collect some tumble material, that's another way to get material. For myself I have never bought rocks online, I need to see and feel the rocks to know if it's material I want to tumble. I have been tumbling rocks for almost 60 plus years and I can generally see and feel a rock and know if it will tumble well.
One thing to remember is that, the first stage is important. You can take months tumbling rocks through the first stage multiple times. I would suggest that while learning you not do that, it's going to get frustrating waiting for a finished product. As you learn the rocks and the methods you can always alter them in subsequent batches as you go. Besides it's your call as to when a rock is ready to move on.
Are there any gem and mineral clubs close to you?, or any rock shops? They could be good places to talk to folks or in the case of Shops buy tumbling material.
Just remember, all rocks are not equal, some make for better tumbling and others are not worth the effort. Learning to tell the difference is eventually important in turning out good batches of polished rocks.
Good luck and keep those questions coming( and pictures if you can figure out how to post them) Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 20, 2024 15:12:39 GMT -5
Also, it looks like the newsletter link has “hit” the bed. No direct access to it on the zoo website. Looks like you have to sign up to receive the Zoo's official e-newsletter. I was able to get to this screen on the Zoo website that showed the newsletter. It allowed me to open a .pdf of the file and I was able to printout pages 10-11. www.phoenixzoo.org/wild-times-magazine/
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 18, 2024 17:16:55 GMT -5
Perfect!!
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 16, 2024 19:17:31 GMT -5
Born and raised and spent all my life in Houston and I can say that more and more folks here cannot drive safely in perfect conditions!!
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 14, 2024 16:27:07 GMT -5
Wind Chill does affect how fast "exposed skin" can get frostbite.
Heat index sure feels like a real thing. Come to the Gulf Coast when the temp is at 90 degrees and the humidity is above 50 or 60%, even in the shade it will knock a person down if he is not acclimated. This summer we had temps close to 100 with over 50% humidity, it was almost too hot for me.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 13, 2024 18:20:36 GMT -5
I run a Vibe Lap, 20 inch Lortone. Polishing cycle is run using Tin Oxide on a dedicated pan with tight weave Berber type carpet attached to bottom of the pan. It's always been wet slurry polish for me with just enough water to barely reach the top surface of the carpet. If the slurry gets too much above the carpet it get's messy. As it is the polished rocks do end up with polish stain on the sides. A good soaking in water followed by a good stiff bristle brush usually gets the residue off.
It seems to me that a polish slurry in the carpet would work better than a dry polish.
Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 13, 2024 6:47:50 GMT -5
Oliver Hardy Stan Laurel Jimmy Durante Buster Keaton Thanks Henry! I had to first 3 but couldn't' remember who Buster Keaton was. If you ever get a chance, the Silent movie "The General" is a classic which Keaton stared in and directed. It's stars Keaton doing a lot of "dangerous" stunts himself. It was co-directed by Clyde Bruckman( for bonus points can you name the modern-era television show that used that name in one of the episodes, one of the best episodes of that series?)(( for double bonus name the other two notable roles the actor who portrayed Bruckman in the television episode?))
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 12, 2024 6:03:06 GMT -5
CAN YOU NAME THEM ALL??
Oliver Hardy Stan Laurel Jimmy Durante Buster Keaton
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 8, 2024 13:28:03 GMT -5
My gf makes spaghetti squash. But after all the marinara she adds, I’m not so certain it’s healthy anymore 😅 Basic Marinara is about as healthy as you get; Tomato, Onion, Garlic, Olive Oil and seasoning. I could put it in a glass and drink it!!
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 7, 2024 19:25:28 GMT -5
I have collected at The Round Mt collecting area about 15 to 20 miles to the east/southeast of Safford. Same material just a bit less color/fire than what your tumbles show. Do love the "modern art" botryoidal pieces. Need to tumble more of those.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 6, 2024 13:45:58 GMT -5
The spirit of John Prine is strong in this local Houston boy;
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 6, 2024 13:30:19 GMT -5
Just got the squash seed I ordered for Spring planting; Dixie Yellow Crookneck, Zucchini Spineless Beauty, and my favorite White Bush Scallop(Patty Pan) or as my friend calls them "Flying Saucer". The Patty Pan have a really firm texture and hold their firmness during the saute session.
We have also grilled thick slices of Zucchini, really nice.
Also trying Persian Cucumbers as my neighbor says he had a bumper crop the last two years.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 6, 2024 8:10:59 GMT -5
One problem with some Vibe tumblers is that to achieve vibration, a counterweight is secured to the motor shaft. Basic mechanics says that's a big no no. The motor bearing on the drive end is setup to fail eventually. In the past with heavier duty bearing housing this failure could be put off for a decent amount of time. When my last motor on the UV-18 failed, an autopsy showed that the bearing housings were pressed sheet metal! . That was in contrast to old motors having a much heavier duty housing for the bearings.
I have a friend, who did the autopsy and whom I would call a mechanical savant, re-built the motor and constructed a much heavier system to support the shaft and the counterweight. This is not a practical solution for everyone, but in my case it seems to be working. (If I can motivate myself to take a picture(my kryptonite)of his build I will post it)
Being un-familiar with the Lot-O tumblers I cannot comment on their design, but it seems motor failures have become an issue. Maybe the same basic design as the UV-18?. I do have a 3 bay Mini-sonic which operates on electro-magnetic principal to create vibration. By increasing or decreasing the frequency the vibration amplitude can be changed. I do like it. I do wish the mini-sonic made a bigger barrel with a larger opening to allow for larger rocks. I would buy one today.
I also use a 20 inch Vibe Lap that operates on the same principal as the UV-18, a counterweight connected directly to the motor shaft. The motors have failed in the last few years. I did manage to find the same size motor to fit the Lap. It appeared to be of much better construction than the failed motor and it has lasted longer. The key was the extra heavy duty bearing housing on the drive shaft end. I did manage to find an identical spare that I keep. The plan is to build an indirect drive and isolate the motor from the vibration mechanism by means of a belt. As I have said before, "It's on the list!! I think a couple of the Vendors have Vib-laps not using the weight directly connected to the motor shaft method.
The over seas motors are part of the problem. The other is that most of these motors are built for use in fans which is a balanced load and thus less pressure on the bearings. Why build a heavy duty motor to drive a fan blade. You can save on weight by reducing the amount of metal in the build. The other issue seems to be somewhat poor winding construction. Seen pictures of failed windings that used to never happen on a motor. The use of plastic sleeve bearings is also a contributor to failures.
Does anyone think that the frig they buy today will last 30, 40 or 50 years like the ones that your parents moved to the garage, after purchasing a new one for the house, to serve as the drink cooler and kept running. It's the world we live in!
Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 4, 2024 21:57:59 GMT -5
Seems to be quite some work to me, since every time I open the lid I need to clean it up really carefully to avoid leakage. Do you have a fast process on dealing with the clean up work? It IS a lot of work! But it's a labor of love. I use a spray bottle with water to clean the seal on the barrel where the lid sits. I'll spray that off and then use a paper towel to clean it. It's a pretty quick job. I believe the theory behind adding the 60/90 in stages like this is to reduce the amount of grit lost by it grinding against itself. I guess it makes sense, though how much is really lost by just adding all of the grit at the beginning may not be much. The amount of grit lost by grinding against itself is in my mind reduced when the grit is suspended in the slurry and not as concentrated at the bottom and up the rotating upward side of the barrel. It's my thought on adding dried slurry at the start which should get the grit suspended earlier. Anyway, it's my theory/opinion and I just stick with it. I used to add grit at intervals and decided it was a bit time-consuming so I abandoned it. I may try that again on a run or two. And if I go that route I may use the opportunity to check for suspended grit. I do like to load the batch and let it run!! It keeps it simple and more time for cutting on my saws and switching the stages on my Vib-Lap which except for the polish stage is a daily activity. Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 4, 2024 17:30:15 GMT -5
For a normal Agate/Jasper load in my Model B's I am currently using 10 Tbsp of 35/70 SiC plus about a 1 1/2 cups of saved and dried slurry. Usually run for 8 to 9 days. Usually add a one or two larger rocks. Have not done any measurements, but the 35/70 seems faster grinding than 80. Might get some 30 SiC to start using. In theory I get better grit suspension right from the start and some increased cushioning.
If I am doing Arkansas Quartz or Apache Tears I will start with 80 SiC as the easier to grind material breaks grit down a bit slower. Sometimes reduce the amount of grit for those type batches.
Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 4, 2024 7:51:06 GMT -5
jamesp They would be a real hit in the the old "head shops" of the late 60's. I wonder how many folks here owned one of the black light posters from that era?
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 4, 2024 3:17:07 GMT -5
Hi! Have some of you been on edge about buying a vibratory tumbler? You have probably heard of the infamous, "Lot-O" tumbler and how it does a great job at polishing rocks. I think that the MT-4 could be a possible contender. It seems to imitate a lot of the Lot-O's functions. However, you have also probably heard that within the last 5 years or so, the motors have been Burning down the project. The motors have been un-reliable and have been super rare to find. As rare as a gem(pun intended). It obviously takes time to become a master at tumbling. The MT-4 is not your ordinary tumbler however, it vibrates, but instead of a on-edge motor and that fear of waking up all happy and then u u go out to the garage and you see it, suffering, lifeless. The mini sonic using oscillating electro magnetic pulses to vibrate the drum. Better yet, the hypnotic cyclone effect vibratory tumblers create can be adjusted to make it gentler and slow or fast and furious! I myself, have stuck to my guns and stayed with my rotary tumblers just like a responsible parent. A common thing that i believe is a misconception is that people think vibratory tumblers can polish rocks better. This is wrong. It all matter on how you do it. You can rotary tumbler some rocks that could end up with a BETTER polish than a vibratory tumbler and vice versa. I recently read a book about rock tumbling and when I finished it I said, " That only moved me inch closer in a Marathon". I was disappointed. I was expecting a lot of info on vibratory tumblers because I believe that it is pretty hard to learn how to use one, and which one to get. I want to make this thread for everyone to really learn about how these machines work and how to get a great polish. Because I will tell you what, I got a National geographic hobby tumbler for christmas last year. I found it pretty confusing at first but I understood it. I followed the instructions word for word. You wanna know what I ended up with? A pile of dull rocks. I was heartbroken, after showing my family. It was not what I expected. Many companies make rock tumbling sound quick and easy. Folks, I gotta tell you the truth, it is not. There are so many factors that can be implied with rock tumbling. But guess what, after looked at those dull rocks I said, "I can fix this and do better"! So I did! I started using rocks with similar hardnessess, I used the 1200 grit Aluminum oxide as polish because I bought a tumbling kit from Polly plastics, I got pretty nice results! When I opened that barrel I was so happy! Then, a true hero showed up... MICHIGAN ROCKS, ROB ABRAM! This guy is a legend! He devoted all of his knowledge into these fun videos on how to tumble rocks, experiments with rock tumblers, and rock hounding adventures! Rob, I know you will probably never read this but I want to thank you so much for all the information. So I followed robs tutorials and I ended up with super nice rocks, but I said again, " I can do better". Folks, there is always room for improvement in rock tumbling. I followed robs steps for rotary tumblers but I changed just a couple things, the amount of time. I added two more days to the 2nd stage, and 3rd stage. For the fourth stage I'm thinking about adding in a 1200 or 1000 grit aluminum oxide stage and run it for about 2 weeks and 2-4 days. For the fourth stages time, I might do it for 3-4 weeks instead of two but also maybe add 1 tablespoon of sugar just in case. Then after that I am working on a method to "Hyper polish" rocks up to 100,000 grit. It is going to be a Trade secret though. Back to vibratory tumblers: Vibratory tumblers do get the final stages done a LOT quicker. I'm not super sure of why but I know that the vibrations cause the rocks to rub against each other a LOT more than a rotary tumbler does. Another thing is it uses way less grit. This is especially useful for you crush folk who use stuff like Tin oxide or Cerium Oxide. I want people to use this thread as a way to spread as MUCH information as possible about Vibratory tumbling. I am desperate to know the science behind it and how to get really nice results. please use this thread to share info to me and thousands of others so we can all improve our methods. I would love to own a vibratory tumbler but I am scared that the instructions will be un reliable and I won't end up with good results, I won't find a good video on how to get a competition winning rock tumbled in a vibratory tumbler. I'm telling you all, the first stage takes enough time, and the horrible itch of wanting to open the barrel and check out those rocks. Like Mr. Abram, I like a lot of my rocks to be free of holes , cracks and chips. Also, I don't know if there is a motor with identical horsepower, rpm, and size to that of the Lot-O tumbler. I am very surprised Calway has not gone out of business. I don' t know who owns Calway but if any of you know please message me. I hope this thread will become great use to people like me. To all the professionals out there, please give us your info and opinions on vibratory tumblers and some pictures of rocks you tumbled using a method either you found or came up with. Thanks guys! A suggestion, can you please break these long paragraphs up into multiple paragraphs. My old eyes cannot read this on my laptop screen. It needs breaks. Thanks Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 2, 2024 21:08:05 GMT -5
I have been considering selling some slabs at my Feb Gem and Mineral Show. I don't see a lot of dealers selling slabs at this particular show so I was just going to put out maybe 80 to 100 on the first day to see how they sell. Already have some thoughts on how to deal with introducing water to an indoor venue with potentially slick floors. I was wondering if marking the price on the slabs was I good way to go. I am aware that for certain rocks, the markers will bleed down into the rock. Anyone have any other ways to mark the prices?
Like I say I am going to go small for Sat, if the slabs sell I will have more under the table and can bring more on Sunday and open up some table space if warranted. Have been browsing Ebay and Etsy getting a rough idea of the price range for various types of material.
Thanks Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 2, 2024 9:15:27 GMT -5
jamesp Good looking glass bricks, even the ones that did not quite come out. Also good to see you active and posting again, your posts with pictures are always a favorite of mine. Stay busy my friend. Henry
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Post by HankRocks on Dec 19, 2023 16:28:32 GMT -5
I have managed to tumble them by using about 50% pea gravel in the batch. They really do have some neat shapes. If I can find the really unique I have polished will post pics. These are all from the Round Mt collecting area in Arizona. The ones picture were run 3 or 4 times thru 1st stage. After that I have been less aggressive with them and only running one time through 1st stage. DSC_0127 by Findrocks, on Flickr
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