penguinrocks
starting to shine!
Member since August 2022
Posts: 36
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Post by penguinrocks on Oct 30, 2022 13:06:52 GMT -5
Hi All, I am still working through my first tumble(s) and I have a 12lb barrel that's been going for about 3 months. The first 2 months seemed to go swell, and I've been gradually taking out some of the medium-ish rocks that looked ready and set them aside. At the same time I kept reading on this forum that its important to have a mix of smalls so as I've been taking out the rocks I've been loading it up again with smalls.
Well the problem is last several weeks I've opened the barrel to found very little of the grit has broken down and a lot of it has clumped together. At first I thought that maybe I positioned the tumbler differently (its a Thumler's that likes to be completely level) so maybe too many rocks were tumbling on one side, but after repositioning it it didn't seem to make a difference. Then I took out some of the biggest rocks that were still tumbling thinking maybe they were too big, but the unused grit issue still happened after another week.
So now am I right in thinking that there are just too many smalls? What percent is too many smalls? I'd say about half the barrel is smalls right now, with the rest medium-ish rocks, almost all agates and jaspers I got from the rockshed. I've been loading the barrel the same way every week with about 12 tbsp of 46/70, though I didn't add any grit this week - just dumped most everything back in after taking it out to look at what was going on.
Thanks for any advice!
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 30, 2022 14:31:09 GMT -5
I'm going to guess...and that's all it is since I've done very little actual tumbling. When you have more medium to large sized rocks in the mix, there's more mass to do the grinding. When the larger rocks are taken out and replaced with smalls, they don't have the same "oomph" to grind like the larger rocks did.
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Post by pebblesky on Oct 30, 2022 14:51:24 GMT -5
It did happen to me once or twice on my 3lb that I put ceramic media or too many small rocks in it and the grits were not broken down as expected. Too much cushion or too full load for coarse step seems to be slowing down the progress.
From what I read from previous posts, if your 12lb tumbler doesn’t have an aggressive speed, you probably don’t need to do too much about cushioning - speaking of hard rocks.
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vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
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Post by vance71975 on Oct 30, 2022 16:04:19 GMT -5
Hi All, I am still working through my first tumble(s) and I have a 12lb barrel that's been going for about 3 months. The first 2 months seemed to go swell, and I've been gradually taking out some of the medium-ish rocks that looked ready and set them aside. At the same time I kept reading on this forum that its important to have a mix of smalls so as I've been taking out the rocks I've been loading it up again with smalls. Well the problem is last several weeks I've opened the barrel to found very little of the grit has broken down and a lot of it has clumped together. At first I thought that maybe I positioned the tumbler differently (its a Thumler's that likes to be completely level) so maybe too many rocks were tumbling on one side, but after repositioning it it didn't seem to make a difference. Then I took out some of the biggest rocks that were still tumbling thinking maybe they were too big, but the unused grit issue still happened after another week. So now am I right in thinking that there are just too many smalls? What percent is too many smalls? I'd say about half the barrel is smalls right now, with the rest medium-ish rocks, almost all agates and jaspers I got from the rockshed. I've been loading the barrel the same way every week with about 12 tbsp of 46/70, though I didn't add any grit this week - just dumped most everything back in after taking it out to look at what was going on. Thanks for any advice! Where are you keeping the level of the barrel? 1/2 full, 2/3 full, 3/4 full? How much water are you adding? How thick is your slurry? Just a rough guess cause I had a Similar problem with smalls, My barrel was only 3/4 full but they were tight against the sides and couldnt move much, I took out a handfull of smalls and it fixed the issue.
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penguinrocks
starting to shine!
Member since August 2022
Posts: 36
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Post by penguinrocks on Oct 30, 2022 17:37:21 GMT -5
Hi All, I am still working through my first tumble(s) and I have a 12lb barrel that's been going for about 3 months. The first 2 months seemed to go swell, and I've been gradually taking out some of the medium-ish rocks that looked ready and set them aside. At the same time I kept reading on this forum that its important to have a mix of smalls so as I've been taking out the rocks I've been loading it up again with smalls. Well the problem is last several weeks I've opened the barrel to found very little of the grit has broken down and a lot of it has clumped together. At first I thought that maybe I positioned the tumbler differently (its a Thumler's that likes to be completely level) so maybe too many rocks were tumbling on one side, but after repositioning it it didn't seem to make a difference. Then I took out some of the biggest rocks that were still tumbling thinking maybe they were too big, but the unused grit issue still happened after another week. So now am I right in thinking that there are just too many smalls? What percent is too many smalls? I'd say about half the barrel is smalls right now, with the rest medium-ish rocks, almost all agates and jaspers I got from the rockshed. I've been loading the barrel the same way every week with about 12 tbsp of 46/70, though I didn't add any grit this week - just dumped most everything back in after taking it out to look at what was going on. Thanks for any advice! Where are you keeping the level of the barrel? 1/2 full, 2/3 full, 3/4 full? How much water are you adding? How thick is your slurry? Just a rough guess cause I had a Similar problem with smalls, My barrel was only 3/4 full but they were tight against the sides and couldnt move much, I took out a handfull of smalls and it fixed the issue. I'm trying to keep the barrel about 2/3 to 3/4 full..... So after reading everyone's responses I opened up the barrel again and I'm going to try running it this week without most of the smalls and see if that changes anything. I added back in the big rocks and took out this many smalls 😶
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Oct 31, 2022 7:07:30 GMT -5
So, when you say your rocks are "clumping together" that makes me think there is not enough water. When I've not put in enough water, a very thick slurry develops, sticking the rocks together so that they cannot slide across each other.
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allbetzoff
noticing nice landscape pebbles
Member since November 2020
Posts: 77
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Post by allbetzoff on Oct 31, 2022 9:40:08 GMT -5
I've been having the same trouble with 6lb Lortone barrels in the past month. This thread is validating my guess that I was overfilling and probably had too many smalls. There just wasn't any room for those buggers to roll around.
Thanks for asking the questions and those that have provided answers.
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Deleted
Deleted Member
Member since January 1970
Posts: 0
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Post by Deleted on Oct 31, 2022 10:09:26 GMT -5
It did happen to me once or twice on my 3lb that I put ceramic media or too many small rocks in it and the grits were not broken down as expected. Too much cushion or too full load for coarse step seems to be slowing down the progress. From what I read from previous posts, if your 12lb tumbler doesn’t have an aggressive speed, you probably don’t need to do too much about cushioning - speaking of hard rocks. Are you using ceramics in stage 1?
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Post by pebblesky on Oct 31, 2022 10:55:53 GMT -5
It did happen to me once or twice on my 3lb that I put ceramic media or too many small rocks in it and the grits were not broken down as expected. Too much cushion or too full load for coarse step seems to be slowing down the progress. From what I read from previous posts, if your 12lb tumbler doesn’t have an aggressive speed, you probably don’t need to do too much about cushioning - speaking of hard rocks. Are you using ceramics in stage 1? I only used ceramics once for stage 1 and it didn't help with anything so I no longer did that.
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penguinrocks
starting to shine!
Member since August 2022
Posts: 36
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Post by penguinrocks on Oct 31, 2022 12:03:58 GMT -5
So, when you say your rocks are "clumping together" that makes me think there is not enough water. When I've not put in enough water, a very thick slurry develops, sticking the rocks together so that they cannot slide across each other. The water has actually been very watery when I opened it -- just the grit seems to be sticking together in like one area (maybe mixed in a glob of smalls??), and no slurry at all really. So that's why I didn't think it was a water issue.... I'll update again next weekend when I open the barrel back up and see if taking out the smalls solves the problem. The more I read the replies and the more I think about it, it would make sense. The smalls were serving as cushion but I guess I didn't really need it and with 46/70 grit it might be too coarse for so many smalls to break down. Lets see if that hypothesis is right, because I tried everything else and it didn't work 😭 Thanks for all the replies everyone!
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Oct 31, 2022 13:10:43 GMT -5
penguinrocks ok, yeah if the grit isn’t breaking down then it really does sound like you have too many smalls. I think you’ve got it figured out!🙂
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Post by Bob on Nov 1, 2022 20:06:12 GMT -5
Is there a chance you switched to larger grit than in the past?
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penguinrocks
starting to shine!
Member since August 2022
Posts: 36
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Post by penguinrocks on Nov 6, 2022 16:40:20 GMT -5
Quick update - I did open up the 12lb barrel today and no grit! So it seems like it was definitely waaaay too many smalls. I put a couple more medium/large rocks in loaded with 10tbsp of grit this time instead of 12 that I was doing before and will see if it continues to break down all the grit. Thx for everyone who chimed in!
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ericabelle
spending too much on rocks
Instagram acct: @erica_shoots_everything
Member since April 2021
Posts: 482
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Post by ericabelle on Nov 6, 2022 19:46:11 GMT -5
Quick update - I did open up the 12lb barrel today and no grit! So it seems like it was definitely waaaay too many smalls. I put a couple more medium/large rocks in loaded with 10tbsp of grit this time instead of 12 that I was doing before and will see if it continues to break down all the grit. Thx for everyone who chimed in! Great job! It was just as you suspected!
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,558
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Post by jamesp on Nov 7, 2022 11:55:20 GMT -5
A good rule of thumb for loading step 1 to a rotary barrel:
Any sized rotary barrel filled 100% with 1/4 inch rocks will take months to shape. Don't do it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1/2 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Don't do it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1 inch rocks will shape much quicker. It will be a slow shaping process. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1.5 inch rocks will shape even quicker. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" a mix of 1/2"-1"-1.5"-2" rocks say equally by weight(or volume) will shape yet faster.
If running say 50% of the barrel volume with rocks 3/4 inch and smaller it is best to run the other 50% with 1"/1.5"/2" rocks.
If running say 50% of the barrel volume with rocks 1/2 inch rocks add a single 3 inch "crusher rock" rock and it will shape the smalls quickly.
Just saying, your typical 1.5 to 2 inch rocks are the 'workhorses' that add needed grinding pressures to shape all rocks quicker.
But never run all 3 inch rocks together(in like a larger 12 pound barrel) without smalls mixed in or the 3 inch rocks will beat/bruise each other.
A batch of mostly 2 inch rocks run together with smaller 1/2 to 3/4 inch rocks as 'void fill' is a fast shaping arrangement. Be prepared to add SiC more often though. The larger rocks will both speed the grind but also use up the SiC quicker.(it won't require more SiC, it just uses up the SiC faster because the shaping is happening faster).
The old rule that a mix of sizes of 1/2 to 2 inches is hard to beat for efficient shaping.
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,558
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Post by jamesp on Nov 7, 2022 12:32:26 GMT -5
A $10 weigh scale comes in handy for getting an idea of individual weights. A barrel with about 50% 40 gram to 70 gram rocks mixed with smaller rocks will make for an efficient tumble.
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Post by jasoninsd on Nov 7, 2022 18:42:25 GMT -5
A good rule of thumb for loading step 1 to a rotary barrel: Any sized rotary barrel filled 100% with 1/4 inch rocks will take months to shape. Don't do it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1/2 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Don't do it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1 inch rocks will shape much quicker. It will be a slow shaping process. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1.5 inch rocks will shape even quicker. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" a mix of 1/2"-1"-1.5"-2" rocks say equally by weight(or volume) will shape yet faster. If running say 50% of the barrel volume with rocks 3/4 inch and smaller it is best to run the other 50% with 1"/1.5"/2" rocks. If running say 50% of the barrel volume with rocks 1/2 inch rocks add a single 3 inch "crusher rock" rock and it will shape the smalls quickly. Just saying, your typical 1.5 to 2 inch rocks are the 'workhorses' that add needed grinding pressures to shape all rocks quicker. But never run all 3 inch rocks together(in like a larger 12 pound barrel) without smalls mixed in or the 3 inch rocks will beat/bruise each other. A batch of mostly 2 inch rocks run together with smaller 1/2 to 3/4 inch rocks as 'void fill' is a fast shaping arrangement. Be prepared to add SiC more often though. The larger rocks will both speed the grind but also use up the SiC quicker.(it won't require more SiC, it just uses up the SiC faster because the shaping is happening faster). The old rule that a mix of sizes of 1/2 to 2 inches is hard to beat for efficient shaping. This should get stickied somehow...
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penguinrocks
starting to shine!
Member since August 2022
Posts: 36
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Post by penguinrocks on Nov 7, 2022 21:56:56 GMT -5
A good rule of thumb for loading step 1 to a rotary barrel: Any sized rotary barrel filled 100% with 1/4 inch rocks will take months to shape. Don't do it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1/2 """"""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" Don't do it. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1 inch rocks will shape much quicker. It will be a slow shaping process. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" 1.5 inch rocks will shape even quicker. """""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""""" a mix of 1/2"-1"-1.5"-2" rocks say equally by weight(or volume) will shape yet faster. If running say 50% of the barrel volume with rocks 3/4 inch and smaller it is best to run the other 50% with 1"/1.5"/2" rocks. If running say 50% of the barrel volume with rocks 1/2 inch rocks add a single 3 inch "crusher rock" rock and it will shape the smalls quickly. Just saying, your typical 1.5 to 2 inch rocks are the 'workhorses' that add needed grinding pressures to shape all rocks quicker. But never run all 3 inch rocks together(in like a larger 12 pound barrel) without smalls mixed in or the 3 inch rocks will beat/bruise each other. A batch of mostly 2 inch rocks run together with smaller 1/2 to 3/4 inch rocks as 'void fill' is a fast shaping arrangement. Be prepared to add SiC more often though. The larger rocks will both speed the grind but also use up the SiC quicker.(it won't require more SiC, it just uses up the SiC faster because the shaping is happening faster). The old rule that a mix of sizes of 1/2 to 2 inches is hard to beat for efficient shaping. Oh this is hugely helpful. I'll definitely save this guidance. Thanks!
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Post by perkins17 on Nov 7, 2022 23:27:16 GMT -5
Another thought could be to oil the bearings and/or tighten the belt. My 33b had the same issue with that until I got it running faster then it started breaking all the grit down again.
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