automaton25
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2022
Posts: 22
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Post by automaton25 on Dec 5, 2022 23:52:46 GMT -5
Hello Everyone,
My new Highland Park HT-12 was just delivered and I have it all set up, but there were very few instructions and there doesn't seem to be great information available on maintenance, care, and use.
Are there any tricks to placing rocks in the vice and securing stability?
How long does cutting oil last? How do you know when it's bad or needs to be filtered? Is a brown paper bag the best way to filter cutting oil? Where do you guys buy your petroleum free cutting oil?
How often does a saw need to be cleaned? can it sit with oil in it for en extended period of time using it to cut a couple times per day?
Cheers!
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 6, 2022 9:40:21 GMT -5
Q: Are there any tricks to placing rocks in the vice and securing stability?
A: A good selection of small wooden wedges and small square and rectangular pieces of
Masonite come in handy to shore up any ill-fitting areas between the clamp jaws and
the rock.
Q: How long does cutting oil last?
A: I use an industrial grade mineral oil called Duoprime made by Citgo. Bought a drum
of it in 2011 I've been filtering, and adding to the same batches of it as needed since.
Prior to that I had bought a drum of used transformer oil (which is a type of
industrial mineral oil) which worked well too but didn't seem to last as long - but it
was already "used" when I acquired it. Our local power company used to sell
it very inexpensively. But about 12 years or so ago they contracted to sell all of
their used transformer oil to China. So we can't get it here anymore but there may be
other areas of the country where the power companies will still sell it to the public.
Q: How do you know when it's bad or needs to be filtered?
A: When rock sludge starts coating and clinging to the guide rails and powerfeed screw
rod rather than draining off.
Q: Is a brown paper bag the best way to filter cutting oil?
A: Works well for me.
Q: Where do you guys buy your petroleum free cutting oil?
A: I don't buy petroleum free cutting oil. I like keeping my saws running as smoothly
and maintenance-free as possible.
Q: How often does a saw need to be cleaned?
A: Depends on how often you use it and what you've been cutting.
Q: Can it sit with oil in it for an extended period of time using it to cut a couple times per
day?
A: Yes. As long as the saw lid is kept closed the oil can sit in the saw for months with little or no use.
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Post by Starguy on Dec 6, 2022 11:52:00 GMT -5
automaton25There is one thing to keep handy when you are clamping rocks in the vise. I have a small deadblow hammer that I use to tap the rock and vise during wedging and clamping. Light impacts can help settle the rock wedges and vise into a tighter configuration. It always surprises me. When I think I have the vise hand tight, one or two taps with the hammer and I can get another turn on the tightening knob.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 6, 2022 12:26:35 GMT -5
HT12 is the Lortone copy with the clamp down bar for a vice. I have a Mojave Industries/Royal/Jenkins etc style 10" saw with that style vice.
I made a T shaped top bar for it so I could balance the bar to keep it flat and clamping tightly so I could cut rocks almost all the way, but now I almost always start by cutting or grinding a flat where I need it, gluing it up to an end cut of a board with gorrilla glue, and clamping the board in the vice so I can cut it all the way, with the last cut on the board leaving about a 1/8" thick wood that removes easily after kitty litter, degreaser and then water. Whatever I cut in a bar clamp. I always put it all the way against the front threaded rod for more support against turning in the clamp. Wood wedges are helpful, but difficult to plade in that style clamp. Maybe I'll make a video after I clean the saw, it's pretty nasty right now.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 6, 2022 12:27:09 GMT -5
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automaton25
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2022
Posts: 22
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Post by automaton25 on Dec 6, 2022 12:30:59 GMT -5
Q: Are there any tricks to placing rocks in the vice and securing stability? A: A good selection of small wooden wedges and small square and rectangular pieces of Masonite come in handy to shore up any ill-fitting areas between the clamp jaws and the rock. Q: How long does cutting oil last? A: I use an industrial grade mineral oil called Duoprime made by Citgo. Bought a drum of it in 2011 I've been filtering, and adding to the same batches of it as needed since. Prior to that I had bought a drum of used transformer oil (which is a type of industrial mineral oil) which worked well too but didn't seem to last as long - but it was already "used" when I acquired it. Our local power company used to sell it very inexpensively. But about 12 years or so ago they contracted to sell all of their used transformer oil to China. So we can't get it here anymore but there may be other areas of the country where the power companies will still sell it to the public. Q: How do you know when it's bad or needs to be filtered? A: When rock sludge starts coating and clinging to the guide rails and powerfeed screw rod rather than draining off. Q: Is a brown paper bag the best way to filter cutting oil? A: Works well for me. Q: Where do you guys buy your petroleum free cutting oil? A: I don't buy petroleum free cutting oil. I like keeping my saws running as smoothly and maintenance-free as possible. Q: How often does a saw need to be cleaned? A: Depends on how often you use it and what you've been cutting. Q: Can it sit with oil in it for an extended period of time using it to cut a couple times per day? A: Yes. As long as the saw lid is kept closed the oil can sit in the saw for months with little or no use. thank you for responding! I've been having a hard time finding information. I had heard that the petroleum thinned mineral oils will dissolve the bearing grease pretty quickly causing premature failure. I happen to know an engineer at a small electric provider so maybe he can get some oil for me. |
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automaton25
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2022
Posts: 22
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Post by automaton25 on Dec 6, 2022 12:41:25 GMT -5
HT12 is the Lortone copy with the clamp down bar for a vice. I have a Mojave Industries/Royal/Jenkins etc style 10" saw with that style vice. I made a T shaped top bar for it so I could balance the bar to keep it flat and clamping tightly so I could cut rocks almost all the way, but now I almost always start by cutting or grinding a flat where I need it, gluing it up to an end cut of a board with gorrilla glue, and clamping the board in the vice so I can cut it all the way, with the last cut on the board leaving about a 1/8" thick wood that removes easily after kitty litter, degreaser and then water. Whatever I cut in a bar clamp. I always put it all the way against the front threaded rod for more support against turning in the clamp. Wood wedges are helpful, but difficult to plade in that style clamp. Maybe I'll make a video after I clean the saw, it's pretty nasty right now. Thank you, this is all very helpful! I come from wood working so I'm somewhat familiar with making jigs I just didn't know if they applied well here. The tip about placing the rock against the all-thread is great to know, thank you! |
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 6, 2022 13:16:35 GMT -5
Petroleum thinned mineral oils? Mineral oil is petroleum, the terminology is basically a trade name to differentiate petroleum you use on your skin and injest from gasoline, even though it all comes from the same crude oil refining process. Some industrial cutting oils are formulated by adding solvents to thin out. HP John likes to claim that every oil but his is made that way with no data to back the claim. When you live in China it seems that false advertizing is allowed. If the flash point is high, as it should be in a rock saw, it's clear there are no solvents. QuailRiver the duoprime 70 sounds like a good choice, a paraffinic base has a lot less odor than a naphthetic oil, and my guess is it probably stays thin through repeated use a lot better. I started out with transformer oil too. |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 6, 2022 14:10:02 GMT -5
... QuailRiver the duoprime 70 sounds like a good choice, a paraffinic base has a lot less odor than a naphthetic oil, and my guess is it probably stays thin through repeated use a lot better. I started out with transformer oil too. If I remember correctly I had originally planned to order the Duoprime 70 but the only viscosity that I could find stocked by suppliers in the Mid-Atlantic states was the Duroprime 90. So I ordered a 55 gallon steel drum of the 90 and for a few years was running multiple saws at the same time 8-10 hours a day, 6 days a week except during the coldest 2-3 months of the year. I have strained and reused this oil over and over again and can barley notice any change. But if anything has changed from extended use I would say that it has become slightly more fluid. I have been very happy with it's performance and longevity and would definitely order it again. |
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Dec 6, 2022 14:14:54 GMT -5
I should probably also mention that the Duoprime 90 oil is a "food grade" mineral oil. It is primarily used for lubricating food processing equipment. So from a health standpoint it's fairly safe to use. Just don't breath the mist from it or from any other type of oil.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 7, 2022 0:06:30 GMT -5
Medical grade, food grade and tech grade can be identical, the big difference is the cost of certs. In the rubber industry the industrial and medical grade silicone rubber came from the same box and we added the same curing agent. Other than a couple color additives it was processed identically. A sheet of paper stapled to the packing slip was the only difference, and it typically just about doubled the price.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 7, 2022 0:15:24 GMT -5
I cleaned the 10" saw and attempted a video to try to explain clamping rocks in the horizontal bar vice, please understand I was late in for dinner and maybe a little low blood sugar,
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Post by mohs on Dec 7, 2022 9:36:15 GMT -5
To every rock (turn, turn, turn) There is a slabbing season (turn, turn, turn)  That neat 10 inch saw Rockoonz Lee ! Is it still the same blade You tweaked straight ? |
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 7, 2022 10:50:13 GMT -5
mohs no it's a new blade as of a few months ago, used up the other one. Glad I still have a few in stores, they are getting real expensive.
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automaton25
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2022
Posts: 22
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Post by automaton25 on Dec 7, 2022 23:04:03 GMT -5
Petroleum thinned mineral oils? Mineral oil is petroleum, the terminology is basically a trade name to differentiate petroleum you use on your skin and injest from gasoline, even though it all comes from the same crude oil refining process. Some industrial cutting oils are formulated by adding solvents to thin out. HP John likes to claim that every oil but his is made that way with no data to back the claim. When you live in China it seems that false advertizing is allowed. If the flash point is high, as it should be in a rock saw, it's clear there are no solvents. QuailRiver the duoprime 70 sounds like a good choice, a paraffinic base has a lot less odor than a naphthetic oil, and my guess is it probably stays thin through repeated use a lot better. I started out with transformer oil too. Fair point, I didn't really think about that. I guess it would come down to what they used to thin the mineral oil down to their specified viscosity. Either way, it appears to be a scam. |
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stefan
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Dec 11, 2022 18:11:32 GMT -5
I use food grade mineral oil I got off Amazon. I don't remember the cost but it was under $20 for 5 gals. My HP 14" took about 2 gallons. I filter it thru a brown bag when it starts to become too "sludgy" I have cleaned the saw 3 times and reused the oil with no issues at all. So far I have reclaimed 98% of the oil.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 12, 2022 0:25:45 GMT -5
I use food grade mineral oil I got off Amazon. I don't remember the cost but it was under $20 for 5 gals. My HP 14" took about 2 gallons. I filter it thru a brown bag when it starts to become too "sludgy" I have cleaned the saw 3 times and reused the oil with no issues at all. So far I have reclaimed 98% of the oil. Couldn't find anything but cutting block oil at about $25/gallon for 4. Also couldn't find viscosity or flash point info on it. Buying 55g at a time I'm still right around $10/gallon for Stellar, and the paper bag method works good, sometimes in a hurry I use pillowcases when I find them cheap in estate sales, they filter faster. |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Dec 12, 2022 9:54:57 GMT -5
I use food grade mineral oil I got off Amazon. I don't remember the cost but it was under $20 for 5 gals. My HP 14" took about 2 gallons. I filter it thru a brown bag when it starts to become too "sludgy" I have cleaned the saw 3 times and reused the oil with no issues at all. So far I have reclaimed 98% of the oil. Couldn't find anything but cutting block oil at about $25/gallon for 4. Also couldn't find viscosity or flash point info on it. Buying 55g at a time I'm still right around $10/gallon for Stellar, and the paper bag method works good, sometimes in a hurry I use pillowcases when I find them cheap in estate sales, they filter faster. This is an awesome tip, Lee. I have a mess of old pillowcases that I don't use anymore. Gonna give them to Vince for filtering and get them out of my linen closet!  |
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 12, 2022 10:41:05 GMT -5
Couldn't find anything but cutting block oil at about $25/gallon for 4. Also couldn't find viscosity or flash point info on it. Buying 55g at a time I'm still right around $10/gallon for Stellar, and the paper bag method works good, sometimes in a hurry I use pillowcases when I find them cheap in estate sales, they filter faster. This is an awesome tip, Lee. I have a mess of old pillowcases that I don't use anymore. Gonna give them to Vince for filtering and get them out of my linen closet! If you want you can squeeze them out a little as well, and you can dump and reuse if you want to get that dirty, I usually don't. The oil won't be as clear as the paper bags, but it's going to turn to pudding again anyway. |
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Dec 16, 2022 17:47:26 GMT -5
I just looked it up and it went up to nearly $25 a gallon!!!! It was over a year and a half ago but I paid $5 so I was wrong it was $25 for the 5 gallons! (I had a coupon as well). Damn that has gone up a lot!
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