Post by chris1956 on Jan 1, 2023 20:45:53 GMT -5
LOT-O MOTOR REPLACEMENT
I have divided this thread into three parts since it is so long. Part 1 is a description of my Lot-O Tumbler and my experience with the motor. Part 2 is a description of how I modified the tumbler for the ToAuto motor based on what I saw from the Rock Shed video and photographs. The photographs are in a thread in the forum which I can’t seem to find now. I have included them as Shawn had sent them to me in an email. I have also included a couple of my own photographs. The first three attachments are from Shawn at the Rock Shed. The rest are mine. Part 3 includes some thoughts on the modification and items to consider before committing to change your tumbler. These modifications aren’t for everyone, and surely will void any Lot-O warranty you have. In my case, I figured it was worth it and would give me a chance to tinker around with the tumbler.
PART 1 – LOT-O TUMBLER
I purchased my Lot-O tumbler in early May, 2022. The motor initially sounded loud and I almost sent the motor back but ended up keeping it. The tumbler did a great job polishing stones and I am more than pleased in that regard. The motor started making more noise in early December and I noticed that the fans would wobble when you shut the machine off. In late December it got to the point where I would have to manually spin the fans to get the motor started when I plugged the unit in. When the unit wasn’t operating, I could feel a spot as I rotated the shaft manually where the shaft seemed to stick. The motor died completely on Christmas Eve. It wouldn’t start even though I would manually spin the fans multiple times. This was a Fasco motor.
I took the motor apart and found what others had described on the forum. There was a lot of black dust in the motor and around the outside of the motor. The material on the outside looked like rubber or plastic particles. On the inside there were both the rubber/plastic dust and metallic dust. I cleaned the motor as best I could and put a drop of oil on both sides of the shaft. This seemed to make it easier to spin the shaft manually but I was uncomfortable using the motor again.
Before the motor completely died, I had ordered the ToAuto motor after seeing the Rock Shed modification information on the forum. From the comments I saw, there didn’t appear to be a consensus that any of the replacement motors offered would last. I recall they were only offering a one month warranty on the motors and the cost was high ($145 to $165). This seemed out of line as I paid $220 for my entire Tumbler in May but I realize prices have gone up a lot. The cost of the ToAuto motor on Amazon was $39.
PART 2 – MODIFICATION PROCEDURE
Tools and Equipment Used
1. Small screw driver
2. Electric drill
3. Drill bits suitable for drilling through metal
4. Standard hacksaw
5. Small, tight places hacksaw
6. Socket set
7. Wrench set
8. Adjustable wrench set
9. Metal hand rasp
10. Dremel drill with stone grinding attachment
11. Metric hex key set
12. Safety glasses
13. Hearing protection
14. Dust mask
15. Gloves
Motor Change Procedure
1. Make sure you read the directions provided with the ToAuto motor although they are not the best and are confusing at times. There are probably items mentioned there that I have forgot to include with my description.
2. My motor was delivered without an electrical plug so I had to purchase one and attach it to the cord provided.
3. 4 bolts with washers and nuts are required to attach the motor to the Lot-O frame. You will have to purchase the bolts, nuts and washers. You could probably do without the washers but I always like to use them. For the bottom two bolts I used 5/16-inch by 1 inch hex head bolts. For the top two bolts I used 1/4-inch by 1 inch carriage bolts.
4. If you look closely at the photos from the Rock Shed, you will see that the motor they used is 30W. I bought the 30W motor.
5. Attach the electrical plug to motor wire.
6. Remove the metal housing around the rotating weights using a hex key to remove the four screws. Do this for both sides.
7. Loosen the weight nuts on both sides of the motor shaft (this took some effort). The unit comes with the weights set to 100% (max vibration). I figured it was better to start at minimum vibration and increase until I got sufficient vibration. However, I was unable to figure out how to lock in the 2.5% (180 degree) setting so I started with the next setting with the outer two weights moved to the first notch/peg. There was no direction in the manual on how many weights to move (there are five total) but the outer two weights have a circular hole and could be rotated while the inner three weights have a flat spot on the hole that matches a flat spot on the shaft and can’t be rotated. It seemed to work. Make sure both sides are set to the same amount of rotation!
8. Replace the weight covers on both sides of the motor and tighten the 4 screws on each side. The motor should now be ready to use.
9. Remove the lower two metal motor supports on the back of the Lot-O tumbler in order to accommodate the ToAuto vibrating motor. I removed the metal supports by using hacksaws. It is important to cut these “fins” as close to the attaching plate as possible to avoid interference with the replacement motor base. The fins are actually one piece of metal that is bent in a U shape and then welded to the metal frame that holds the tumbler. I started with a standard hacksaw and did as much as I could (you will eventually hit the top of the tumbler with the top bar of the hacksaw) and then I switched to the small, tight places hacksaw and cut the rest. Alternatively, you could remove the entire tumbler frame and turn it upside down. This might make sawing off the fins easier. After writing this I had a thought that it might be a good idea to remove the frame from the springs so the force of sawing off the support fins wouldn’t put stress on the springs.
10. Once cut, I used a metal hand file and Dremel tool with stone grinding attachment to remove sharp edges from the hacksaw cut.
11. Once both motor support fins are removed, mark the location for the four bolts. I did this by looking at the photos from the Rock Shed. The bolt slot on the ToAuto replacement motor is about 5/16-inch high and it appeared from the photo that there was about the same dimension (5/16-inch) from the underside of the Lot-O tumbler top support to the top of the ToAuto motor frame. It also appeared that they centered the replacement motor side to side. Make sure you check what you have on your motor since dimensions could vary. After I put the motor on, I realized that my holes were not quite at the same height on right and left and the motor shaft wasn’t quite horizontal. This may have been because I measured from the top which might not be level. I made the holes on the left side slightly larger and after that the bolts could be tightened with the motor horizontal.
12. Once the four bolt locations are marked, drill the holes for the bolts. I drilled a small diameter pilot hole part way into the metal to start with so I wouldn’t have movement with the larger diameter drill bit. The bottom holes will take more time as there are two plates rather than just one for the top holes. For the bottom holes I used two 5/16-inch by 1 inch hex head bolts (you might be able to use shorter length). For the top two holes I used 1/4-inch by 1 inch carriage bolts. I changed to 1/4-inch bolts on the top because it was difficult to fit a socket wrench onto the 5/16-inch bolts because of interference with the motor (I also had to use an extender bar with the socket wrench to reach the nuts). You may have to use a small file or the Dremel and stone grinding attachment to make the holes slightly larger for the carriage bolts. The reason for using the carriage bolts is because the top two bolt heads will be in contact with the tumbler barrel which might cause wear on the barrel. The carriage bolts have rounded tops rather than the sharp edges of the hex head bolts. I again used the Dremel and stone grinding attachment to remove burrs from the drilled holes.
13. Mount the motor as shown in the Rock Shed photos. The label will be upside down as viewed from the motor side (back) of the tumbler. I am thinking this is the way to do it to get the direction of rotation right.
14. At this point I was ready for a test, so I added rocks and ceramic pellets, but no grit. I wetted them like normal and drained the excess water. The rocks rotated some but not nearly as much as I would have liked. So, I removed the weight covers and adjusted the weights two spots (to the third notch and peg) and tried again. This time the rotation was great.
PART 3 – THOUGHTS ON THE MODIFICATIONS
I think it is important to think about what could go wrong with this modification and make sure you are comfortable with the modifications before proceeding. Here is a list of possible things I thought of that could go wrong with this modification. I am sure members of the forum will think of additional concerns.
• The ToAuto motor is Chinese made and getting your money back or a replacement might be doubtful. They might not honor any warranty because the motor is not being used for its intended use, although I don’t think the manual furnished with the motor mentions concrete vibration as the intended use (the mention of concrete vibration shows up on Amazon). I haven’t ordered equipment from Amazon before so I am not sure what if any warranty they would honor.
• The ToAuto motor is made for vibrating concrete (at least as described on Amazon). That application is different than the 24/7 type operation with tumbling rocks so longevity of the motor could be an issue.
• The modifications (removal of the bottom motor support fins) could alter the vibrations in the Lot-O equipment and might cause premature failure of the barrel support “ring”.
• The vibrations from the ToAuto motor might cause vibrations that might affect the longevity of the tumbler springs.
• The ToAuto motor is an enclosed motor with no fan for cooling. If the motor is well made, I don’t think this should be a concern. Although the motor did get hot, it was not nearly as hot as the Fasco motor I originally had on the tumbler.
• One concern may be that the motor mounts directly to the metal that is a part of the barrel support ring. That metal where the motor is mounted gets hot but I didn’t think it was too hot. I think since there is no fan, the motor case and base will transfer heat to the air and metal support ring of the tumbler will conduct the heat better than air will.
• The modification will surely void any warranty on the Lot-O equipment and it would be difficult (at least for me) to weld the motor supports back on the Lot-O frame (although I am guessing it could be done). You will need to make sure you are comfortable with this if your Lot-O is still under warranty or if you have any thoughts about going back to the Fasco or Imesa motors.
There is a warranty of one month for the ToAuto motor although at one point the manual mentions a year. There was also a card provided to get an additional 6-month warranty if you register by scanning the QR code on the card. I am unwilling to do this based on the fact that this is a Chinese company and there have been issues with QR codes. I will take my chances as is for $39.
The Rock Shed information (from other threads) indicated they had been running Lot-O with the ToAuto motor for 2 months. I sent Shawn at the Rock Shed an email (December 30th) and he responded saying that the motor is still working although he indicated that they had not used it continuously. He indicated that he thinks it works better than any of their other Lot-O tumblers and that they are also working on using a smaller amperage motor on a Lot-O but don’t have it working yet.
On December 29th, I ran the unit for about 6 hours with just wet rocks and ceramic pellets. On the 30th I again rain the unit for about 4 hours. On the 31st I added borax and 500 Aluminum Oxide. I have left the unit running since the 31st. Here are my initial thoughts about what I saw.
I had never had this much rotation with the original Lot-O motor although I may have been able to get there if I had adjusted the dowel. I never got around to it because I figured the motor would die soon enough and it was still doing a good job of polishing. The ToAuto motor is extremely quiet compared to the original motor. I never measured the noise with the Lot-O with the original motor, but it was much louder. I measured the noise with the ToAuto motor at about 65 decibels at 3 feet. It was louder with the weights moved to the third notch/peg position and there was more vibration overall as would be expected.
After the first run I checked the barrel and there were indentations where the two carriage bolts contact the barrel. I didn’t run the unit that night and the next day the indentations were mostly gone but could still be seen. Not sure if this is from wear or is just a temporary indentation from the pressure. I have asked Shawn to comment about any additional wear he has seen.
For the second run, I covered the carriage bolts with a single layer of electrical tape. After the run I could still see the indentations but they were less pronounced than the first run. The electrical tape started to come off, probably because of the heat from the motor. I may try duct tape next. I am guessing there might be a caulk of some kind that could be used.
After noticing the barrel indentations from the carriage bolt heads, I became concerned about the amount of vibration. Although it appears that the indentations are just that, and not actual wearing of the rubber (when I looked, there wasn’t any wear on the electrical tape covering the bolt heads). Because of this, I took the weight housings off and adjusted the weights to the second peg/notch position (it had been on the third position). When I added the barrel and turned it on, it was less vibration and I couldn’t tell any lessening of the rock rotation in the barrel. I measured the noise and it was at 60 decibels at 3 feet, down from 65 on the previous setting. I also changed the electrical tape to vertical hoping that would hold better.
After I had added borax and 500 Aluminum Oxide, and the rocks developed a film, I did notice that the motion of the rocks slowed down somewhat. I may either up the vibration setting or move the dowel to speed it back up. I will wait and see how the rocks polish at this speed and how it reacts to adding water. I have also noticed that there is some liquid escaping from the cap now and then. I hadn’t had this issue before except when I took the cap off. I don’t consider it excessive.
Wrap Up
This modification is not for everyone. But for $39 plus the electrical plug and bolts, it seemed like a better deal than a $165 motor with a one-month warranty. I hope this helps. I don’t guarantee it will work for everyone but seemed like a good choice for me.
I will try to update this post to let everyone know how the motor does and respond to any questions.
These two photos and one video are from Shawn at the Rock Shed.
forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/100982/experience-lot-failed-motor
I have divided this thread into three parts since it is so long. Part 1 is a description of my Lot-O Tumbler and my experience with the motor. Part 2 is a description of how I modified the tumbler for the ToAuto motor based on what I saw from the Rock Shed video and photographs. The photographs are in a thread in the forum which I can’t seem to find now. I have included them as Shawn had sent them to me in an email. I have also included a couple of my own photographs. The first three attachments are from Shawn at the Rock Shed. The rest are mine. Part 3 includes some thoughts on the modification and items to consider before committing to change your tumbler. These modifications aren’t for everyone, and surely will void any Lot-O warranty you have. In my case, I figured it was worth it and would give me a chance to tinker around with the tumbler.
PART 1 – LOT-O TUMBLER
I purchased my Lot-O tumbler in early May, 2022. The motor initially sounded loud and I almost sent the motor back but ended up keeping it. The tumbler did a great job polishing stones and I am more than pleased in that regard. The motor started making more noise in early December and I noticed that the fans would wobble when you shut the machine off. In late December it got to the point where I would have to manually spin the fans to get the motor started when I plugged the unit in. When the unit wasn’t operating, I could feel a spot as I rotated the shaft manually where the shaft seemed to stick. The motor died completely on Christmas Eve. It wouldn’t start even though I would manually spin the fans multiple times. This was a Fasco motor.
I took the motor apart and found what others had described on the forum. There was a lot of black dust in the motor and around the outside of the motor. The material on the outside looked like rubber or plastic particles. On the inside there were both the rubber/plastic dust and metallic dust. I cleaned the motor as best I could and put a drop of oil on both sides of the shaft. This seemed to make it easier to spin the shaft manually but I was uncomfortable using the motor again.
Before the motor completely died, I had ordered the ToAuto motor after seeing the Rock Shed modification information on the forum. From the comments I saw, there didn’t appear to be a consensus that any of the replacement motors offered would last. I recall they were only offering a one month warranty on the motors and the cost was high ($145 to $165). This seemed out of line as I paid $220 for my entire Tumbler in May but I realize prices have gone up a lot. The cost of the ToAuto motor on Amazon was $39.
PART 2 – MODIFICATION PROCEDURE
Tools and Equipment Used
1. Small screw driver
2. Electric drill
3. Drill bits suitable for drilling through metal
4. Standard hacksaw
5. Small, tight places hacksaw
6. Socket set
7. Wrench set
8. Adjustable wrench set
9. Metal hand rasp
10. Dremel drill with stone grinding attachment
11. Metric hex key set
12. Safety glasses
13. Hearing protection
14. Dust mask
15. Gloves
Motor Change Procedure
1. Make sure you read the directions provided with the ToAuto motor although they are not the best and are confusing at times. There are probably items mentioned there that I have forgot to include with my description.
2. My motor was delivered without an electrical plug so I had to purchase one and attach it to the cord provided.
3. 4 bolts with washers and nuts are required to attach the motor to the Lot-O frame. You will have to purchase the bolts, nuts and washers. You could probably do without the washers but I always like to use them. For the bottom two bolts I used 5/16-inch by 1 inch hex head bolts. For the top two bolts I used 1/4-inch by 1 inch carriage bolts.
4. If you look closely at the photos from the Rock Shed, you will see that the motor they used is 30W. I bought the 30W motor.
5. Attach the electrical plug to motor wire.
6. Remove the metal housing around the rotating weights using a hex key to remove the four screws. Do this for both sides.
7. Loosen the weight nuts on both sides of the motor shaft (this took some effort). The unit comes with the weights set to 100% (max vibration). I figured it was better to start at minimum vibration and increase until I got sufficient vibration. However, I was unable to figure out how to lock in the 2.5% (180 degree) setting so I started with the next setting with the outer two weights moved to the first notch/peg. There was no direction in the manual on how many weights to move (there are five total) but the outer two weights have a circular hole and could be rotated while the inner three weights have a flat spot on the hole that matches a flat spot on the shaft and can’t be rotated. It seemed to work. Make sure both sides are set to the same amount of rotation!
8. Replace the weight covers on both sides of the motor and tighten the 4 screws on each side. The motor should now be ready to use.
9. Remove the lower two metal motor supports on the back of the Lot-O tumbler in order to accommodate the ToAuto vibrating motor. I removed the metal supports by using hacksaws. It is important to cut these “fins” as close to the attaching plate as possible to avoid interference with the replacement motor base. The fins are actually one piece of metal that is bent in a U shape and then welded to the metal frame that holds the tumbler. I started with a standard hacksaw and did as much as I could (you will eventually hit the top of the tumbler with the top bar of the hacksaw) and then I switched to the small, tight places hacksaw and cut the rest. Alternatively, you could remove the entire tumbler frame and turn it upside down. This might make sawing off the fins easier. After writing this I had a thought that it might be a good idea to remove the frame from the springs so the force of sawing off the support fins wouldn’t put stress on the springs.
10. Once cut, I used a metal hand file and Dremel tool with stone grinding attachment to remove sharp edges from the hacksaw cut.
11. Once both motor support fins are removed, mark the location for the four bolts. I did this by looking at the photos from the Rock Shed. The bolt slot on the ToAuto replacement motor is about 5/16-inch high and it appeared from the photo that there was about the same dimension (5/16-inch) from the underside of the Lot-O tumbler top support to the top of the ToAuto motor frame. It also appeared that they centered the replacement motor side to side. Make sure you check what you have on your motor since dimensions could vary. After I put the motor on, I realized that my holes were not quite at the same height on right and left and the motor shaft wasn’t quite horizontal. This may have been because I measured from the top which might not be level. I made the holes on the left side slightly larger and after that the bolts could be tightened with the motor horizontal.
12. Once the four bolt locations are marked, drill the holes for the bolts. I drilled a small diameter pilot hole part way into the metal to start with so I wouldn’t have movement with the larger diameter drill bit. The bottom holes will take more time as there are two plates rather than just one for the top holes. For the bottom holes I used two 5/16-inch by 1 inch hex head bolts (you might be able to use shorter length). For the top two holes I used 1/4-inch by 1 inch carriage bolts. I changed to 1/4-inch bolts on the top because it was difficult to fit a socket wrench onto the 5/16-inch bolts because of interference with the motor (I also had to use an extender bar with the socket wrench to reach the nuts). You may have to use a small file or the Dremel and stone grinding attachment to make the holes slightly larger for the carriage bolts. The reason for using the carriage bolts is because the top two bolt heads will be in contact with the tumbler barrel which might cause wear on the barrel. The carriage bolts have rounded tops rather than the sharp edges of the hex head bolts. I again used the Dremel and stone grinding attachment to remove burrs from the drilled holes.
13. Mount the motor as shown in the Rock Shed photos. The label will be upside down as viewed from the motor side (back) of the tumbler. I am thinking this is the way to do it to get the direction of rotation right.
14. At this point I was ready for a test, so I added rocks and ceramic pellets, but no grit. I wetted them like normal and drained the excess water. The rocks rotated some but not nearly as much as I would have liked. So, I removed the weight covers and adjusted the weights two spots (to the third notch and peg) and tried again. This time the rotation was great.
PART 3 – THOUGHTS ON THE MODIFICATIONS
I think it is important to think about what could go wrong with this modification and make sure you are comfortable with the modifications before proceeding. Here is a list of possible things I thought of that could go wrong with this modification. I am sure members of the forum will think of additional concerns.
• The ToAuto motor is Chinese made and getting your money back or a replacement might be doubtful. They might not honor any warranty because the motor is not being used for its intended use, although I don’t think the manual furnished with the motor mentions concrete vibration as the intended use (the mention of concrete vibration shows up on Amazon). I haven’t ordered equipment from Amazon before so I am not sure what if any warranty they would honor.
• The ToAuto motor is made for vibrating concrete (at least as described on Amazon). That application is different than the 24/7 type operation with tumbling rocks so longevity of the motor could be an issue.
• The modifications (removal of the bottom motor support fins) could alter the vibrations in the Lot-O equipment and might cause premature failure of the barrel support “ring”.
• The vibrations from the ToAuto motor might cause vibrations that might affect the longevity of the tumbler springs.
• The ToAuto motor is an enclosed motor with no fan for cooling. If the motor is well made, I don’t think this should be a concern. Although the motor did get hot, it was not nearly as hot as the Fasco motor I originally had on the tumbler.
• One concern may be that the motor mounts directly to the metal that is a part of the barrel support ring. That metal where the motor is mounted gets hot but I didn’t think it was too hot. I think since there is no fan, the motor case and base will transfer heat to the air and metal support ring of the tumbler will conduct the heat better than air will.
• The modification will surely void any warranty on the Lot-O equipment and it would be difficult (at least for me) to weld the motor supports back on the Lot-O frame (although I am guessing it could be done). You will need to make sure you are comfortable with this if your Lot-O is still under warranty or if you have any thoughts about going back to the Fasco or Imesa motors.
There is a warranty of one month for the ToAuto motor although at one point the manual mentions a year. There was also a card provided to get an additional 6-month warranty if you register by scanning the QR code on the card. I am unwilling to do this based on the fact that this is a Chinese company and there have been issues with QR codes. I will take my chances as is for $39.
The Rock Shed information (from other threads) indicated they had been running Lot-O with the ToAuto motor for 2 months. I sent Shawn at the Rock Shed an email (December 30th) and he responded saying that the motor is still working although he indicated that they had not used it continuously. He indicated that he thinks it works better than any of their other Lot-O tumblers and that they are also working on using a smaller amperage motor on a Lot-O but don’t have it working yet.
On December 29th, I ran the unit for about 6 hours with just wet rocks and ceramic pellets. On the 30th I again rain the unit for about 4 hours. On the 31st I added borax and 500 Aluminum Oxide. I have left the unit running since the 31st. Here are my initial thoughts about what I saw.
I had never had this much rotation with the original Lot-O motor although I may have been able to get there if I had adjusted the dowel. I never got around to it because I figured the motor would die soon enough and it was still doing a good job of polishing. The ToAuto motor is extremely quiet compared to the original motor. I never measured the noise with the Lot-O with the original motor, but it was much louder. I measured the noise with the ToAuto motor at about 65 decibels at 3 feet. It was louder with the weights moved to the third notch/peg position and there was more vibration overall as would be expected.
After the first run I checked the barrel and there were indentations where the two carriage bolts contact the barrel. I didn’t run the unit that night and the next day the indentations were mostly gone but could still be seen. Not sure if this is from wear or is just a temporary indentation from the pressure. I have asked Shawn to comment about any additional wear he has seen.
For the second run, I covered the carriage bolts with a single layer of electrical tape. After the run I could still see the indentations but they were less pronounced than the first run. The electrical tape started to come off, probably because of the heat from the motor. I may try duct tape next. I am guessing there might be a caulk of some kind that could be used.
After noticing the barrel indentations from the carriage bolt heads, I became concerned about the amount of vibration. Although it appears that the indentations are just that, and not actual wearing of the rubber (when I looked, there wasn’t any wear on the electrical tape covering the bolt heads). Because of this, I took the weight housings off and adjusted the weights to the second peg/notch position (it had been on the third position). When I added the barrel and turned it on, it was less vibration and I couldn’t tell any lessening of the rock rotation in the barrel. I measured the noise and it was at 60 decibels at 3 feet, down from 65 on the previous setting. I also changed the electrical tape to vertical hoping that would hold better.
After I had added borax and 500 Aluminum Oxide, and the rocks developed a film, I did notice that the motion of the rocks slowed down somewhat. I may either up the vibration setting or move the dowel to speed it back up. I will wait and see how the rocks polish at this speed and how it reacts to adding water. I have also noticed that there is some liquid escaping from the cap now and then. I hadn’t had this issue before except when I took the cap off. I don’t consider it excessive.
Wrap Up
This modification is not for everyone. But for $39 plus the electrical plug and bolts, it seemed like a better deal than a $165 motor with a one-month warranty. I hope this helps. I don’t guarantee it will work for everyone but seemed like a good choice for me.
I will try to update this post to let everyone know how the motor does and respond to any questions.
These two photos and one video are from Shawn at the Rock Shed.
forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/100982/experience-lot-failed-motor
