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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 24, 2023 14:45:05 GMT -5
rocknewb the daughters of the previous owner said he referred to it as the beginners saw. Maybe you'll find a cheap garage sale tile saw to back it up. They also splash a lot but they are usually pretty tough as well. The thicker blade like Robin suggested will help for now. Seems counterintuitive but the thicker blades bog down the saw less.
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christibeach
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by christibeach on Mar 24, 2023 17:48:50 GMT -5
rocknewb101 change your blade out with a little thicker one. Those really thin blades are really made for trimming high dollar faceting rough in order to not lose a lot of material during a cut. A thicker one will help with the flexing and if you're just cutting regular rocks, you're not going to lose enough material with a thicker kerf to worry about it. Why frustrate yourself? I was wondering!! I have a tile saw too, but that blade is like 3 x as thick. I mainly use the little trim saw when I'm trying to trim out my free forms for cabbing, or will try to slab a small rock with it - it can't handle anything large, and I think I bent my sintered blade trying to cut pet wood with it (probably using too much force, I've since learned). Any idea what the thicker kerf would measure? I'm assuming it's somewhere between the trim saw blade and the tile saw blade. THanks!! Ohhhh man, I feel like a University Degree is required for all this. I have been reading every post I can find on saws/blades/brands/mohs hardness/water-vs-oil/feeding speed/RPMs/motor size/weather/wine-vs-beer/how-long-is-your-left-foot/how-many-licks-to-get-to-the-center-of-your-rock/etc for two days. I literally grabbed out a pint of ice cream and ate straight out of it, pretty sure my brain is melting faster than the ice cream.  So hummingbirdstones , we're basically in the same bucket. I have two saws as well: -Rigid 10" Tile Saw (Model # WTS2000L) at 4200rpms---I bought this used from another rock hound last year, and the blade she had on it has lasted her AND me a LONG time... Until two days ago. A piece of petrified coral (mohs 3-4) I was cutting suddenly hit a center of hidden ocean bottom chert (mohs 7+) that I didn't know was inside. Unaware, I kept feeding at the same speed, and all it took was 0.2 seconds for my saw to bind/scream, and the rock flew out of my hand and through the air about 10' behind the saw. This bent the blade pretty significantly, but left me thankful to still have all 10 fingers. YIKES. ---Anyway, I have only used water in it, and whatever blade it had was just fine eating through agates and jade with just water, as long as I went slowly. I never had any bending or swaying of the blade. It does eat through some material, but I wouldn't consider it a tragic amount. I don't know if I might find a happier balance of blade strength/less material waste with a 0.04 or 0.05 core? I'm going to try a 0.05 core next to see. -----The blade on it is: 10" diameter / 0.06 core / 5/8" arbor. -This little 4" Gemstone Equip. Mfct. at 3200rpmsI haven't used the little one yet because the blade it came with isn't the right one, so I have to order a new one first. I am looking for a water-only blade that is 4" diameter / 0.02 core / 1/2" arbor. At this point, I think I am going to buy two of the MK 303 blades, one 4" and one 10". They are expensive, but they have the blade sizes I need for both my saws. My biggest concern is whether it will be okay on my water-cooled saws... the listing says 'Designed for use with a water soluble coolant." I have a bunch of allergies, one of which is coconut and all its derivatives... so like 99.8% of soaps and detergents on the planet. I can use borax, which was suggested for use in water-cooled saws, though it wasn't clear if borax serves as a water soluble coolant, or just a surfactant. My brain is spinning. I can't wait until I know what I want/need and can have the links on a Favorites list and don't have to think about it again, haha! Thanks for posting and adding to the convo, I have the same questions as you.  |
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 24, 2023 19:30:57 GMT -5
hummingbirdstones I was wondering!! I have a tile saw too, but that blade is like 3 x as thick. I mainly use the little trim saw when I'm trying to trim out my free forms for cabbing, or will try to slab a small rock with it - it can't handle anything large, and I think I bent my sintered blade trying to cut pet wood with it (probably using too much force, I've since learned). Any idea what the thicker kerf would measure? I'm assuming it's somewhere between the trim saw blade and the tile saw blade. THanks!! Ohhhh man, I feel like a University Degree is required for all this. I have been reading every post I can find on saws/blades/brands/mohs hardness/water-vs-oil/feeding speed/RPMs/motor size/weather/wine-vs-beer/how-long-is-your-left-foot/how-many-licks-to-get-to-the-center-of-your-rock/etc for two days. I literally grabbed out a pint of ice cream and ate straight out of it, pretty sure my brain is melting faster than the ice cream. So hummingbirdstones , we're basically in the same bucket. I have two saws as well: -Rigid 10" Tile Saw (Model # WTS2000L) at 4200rpms---I bought this used from another rock hound last year, and the blade she had on it has lasted her AND me a LONG time... Until two days ago. A piece of petrified coral (mohs 3-4) I was cutting suddenly hit a center of hidden ocean bottom chert (mohs 7+) that I didn't know was inside. Unaware, I kept feeding at the same speed, and all it took was 0.2 seconds for my saw to bind/scream, and the rock flew out of my hand and through the air about 10' behind the saw. This bent the blade pretty significantly, but left me thankful to still have all 10 fingers. YIKES. ---Anyway, I have only used water in it, and whatever blade it had was just fine eating through agates and jade with just water, as long as I went slowly. I never had any bending or swaying of the blade. It does eat through some material, but I wouldn't consider it a tragic amount. I don't know if I might find a happier balance of blade strength/less material waste with a 0.04 or 0.05 core? I'm going to try a 0.05 core next to see. -----The blade on it is: 10" diameter / 0.06 core / 5/8" arbor. -This little 4" Gemstone Equip. Mfct. at 3200rpmsI haven't used the little one yet because the blade it came with isn't the right one, so I have to order a new one first. I am looking for a water-only blade that is 4" diameter / 0.02 core / 1/2" arbor. At this point, I think I am going to buy two of the MK 303 blades, one 4" and one 10". They are expensive, but they have the blade sizes I need for both my saws. My biggest concern is whether it will be okay on my water-cooled saws... the listing says 'Designed for use with a water soluble coolant." I have a bunch of allergies, one of which is coconut and all its derivatives... so like 99.8% of soaps and detergents on the planet. I can use borax, which was suggested for use in water-cooled saws, though it wasn't clear if borax serves as a water soluble coolant, or just a surfactant. My brain is spinning. I can't wait until I know what I want/need and can have the links on a Favorites list and don't have to think about it again, haha! Thanks for posting and adding to the convo, I have the same questions as you. We actually have 8 saws - going from the Tiny Trim saw 4" to an 18" slab saw. The first saw I ever bought was the 4". I was only cutting opal at the time, so I didn't need anything larger, plus I was going to use one of those really thin "gem" blades because I didn't want to waste any more opal than necessary. The small saws use water. You don't need to use oil in them. I just dump mine out in a bucket when I'm done with it and wipe it out with a paper towel. Mine is cast aluminum. 4" and 6" saws are fine with water. We also have a 6" Rock Rascal in our studio that we use water with. That one has a drain on it. You can use water with up to 8" trim saws. Anything larger than that, it's recommended to use oil. All our oil saws are in our saw shop. MKs are good blades. That's what we use on our larger saws. In your case, your tile saw is made to be used with water, so the 10" blade on there is fine. Make sure to spin it dry when you're done to prevent rust. It's not rocket science, but once you get familiar with the blade thicknesses, for cutting jaspers and agates you'll want a slightly thicker blade on the 4" saw. It's all about kerf size and the value of the rough you're cutting. The really thin .020 4" blades are way to thin for just slicing up jaspers and agates without a problem with flex and unnecessary in my opinion. A little thicker blade will make you much happier without all the worry. Right now I have a .020" blade on my 4" because I was sawing some real nice material. I would go with the .032". The difference in kerf size is like putting 2 pieces of paper on each side of the blade. Basically negligible. Consider the MK 225 10" blade for your tile saw. It's the one Vince uses on our 10" saws. www.amazon.com/MK-Diamond-158436-Continuous-Porcelain/dp/B00009YUJR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=EQAZMO8VMCEW&keywords=mk+225+hotdog+saw+blade&qid=1679704144&sprefix=mk+225+hotdog+sawblade%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-1ETA: Some sellers have them for cheaper on Ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/364182618369?hash=item54caf9c101:g:gMEAAOSwFLRkEM9G&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwFWgaboLTvfkWEx7LpgYM8uemWUpgkDpKEdeb%2BXqihnKcMXGAHSjMl6TXeYxZQ%2ByvaC5dDFFQnHps4BSFUEKMDxv%2Fr4ebaRPNkSYWSIVMs92LXpPWgF5NE%2Binjqt8JnHpVVaZzsQ9wSjyyWd9aaAwhYmhepJeLYEW4BaizY3k9CaPBWY2rlqkzE6q2n9PvmJ2LXyl0hteZv58zLIIGznqUsyUv3l%2FFrFfoyTiZmzerUVnvimLrn%2FAR0vmt9NTGrJ5g%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9qa9uPiYQ |
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Post by Rockoonz on Mar 24, 2023 23:57:59 GMT -5
MK225 is also labeled as the agate eater for more money, made for tile saws with water.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Mar 27, 2023 7:44:04 GMT -5
rocknewb the daughters of the previous owner said he referred to it as the beginners saw. Maybe you'll find a cheap garage sale tile saw to back it up. They also splash a lot but they are usually pretty tough as well. The thicker blade like Robin suggested will help for now. Seems counterintuitive but the thicker blades bog down the saw less. Thank you Rockoonz - it definitely is beginner for sure. When I look up the blades that work for this saw they are all thin - the thick sintered blade they have is only for the 6" and up saw - I have the 4"/5". Can I use any blade as long as it fits the saw? I'll try to find something thicker. THank you! |
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christibeach
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by christibeach on Mar 27, 2023 12:01:58 GMT -5
Ohhhh man, I feel like a University Degree is required for all this. I have been reading every post I can find on saws/blades/brands/mohs hardness/water-vs-oil/feeding speed/RPMs/motor size/weather/wine-vs-beer/how-long-is-your-left-foot/how-many-licks-to-get-to-the-center-of-your-rock/etc for two days. I literally grabbed out a pint of ice cream and ate straight out of it, pretty sure my brain is melting faster than the ice cream. So hummingbirdstones , we're basically in the same bucket. I have two saws as well: -Rigid 10" Tile Saw (Model # WTS2000L) at 4200rpms---I bought this used from another rock hound last year, and the blade she had on it has lasted her AND me a LONG time... Until two days ago. A piece of petrified coral (mohs 3-4) I was cutting suddenly hit a center of hidden ocean bottom chert (mohs 7+) that I didn't know was inside. Unaware, I kept feeding at the same speed, and all it took was 0.2 seconds for my saw to bind/scream, and the rock flew out of my hand and through the air about 10' behind the saw. This bent the blade pretty significantly, but left me thankful to still have all 10 fingers. YIKES. ---Anyway, I have only used water in it, and whatever blade it had was just fine eating through agates and jade with just water, as long as I went slowly. I never had any bending or swaying of the blade. It does eat through some material, but I wouldn't consider it a tragic amount. I don't know if I might find a happier balance of blade strength/less material waste with a 0.04 or 0.05 core? I'm going to try a 0.05 core next to see. -----The blade on it is: 10" diameter / 0.06 core / 5/8" arbor. -This little 4" Gemstone Equip. Mfct. at 3200rpmsI haven't used the little one yet because the blade it came with isn't the right one, so I have to order a new one first. I am looking for a water-only blade that is 4" diameter / 0.02 core / 1/2" arbor. At this point, I think I am going to buy two of the MK 303 blades, one 4" and one 10". They are expensive, but they have the blade sizes I need for both my saws. My biggest concern is whether it will be okay on my water-cooled saws... the listing says 'Designed for use with a water soluble coolant." I have a bunch of allergies, one of which is coconut and all its derivatives... so like 99.8% of soaps and detergents on the planet. I can use borax, which was suggested for use in water-cooled saws, though it wasn't clear if borax serves as a water soluble coolant, or just a surfactant. My brain is spinning. I can't wait until I know what I want/need and can have the links on a Favorites list and don't have to think about it again, haha! Thanks for posting and adding to the convo, I have the same questions as you. We actually have 8 saws - going from the Tiny Trim saw 4" to an 18" slab saw. The first saw I ever bought was the 4". I was only cutting opal at the time, so I didn't need anything larger, plus I was going to use one of those really thin "gem" blades because I didn't want to waste any more opal than necessary. The small saws use water. You don't need to use oil in them. I just dump mine out in a bucket when I'm done with it and wipe it out with a paper towel. Mine is cast aluminum. 4" and 6" saws are fine with water. We also have a 6" Rock Rascal in our studio that we use water with. That one has a drain on it. You can use water with up to 8" trim saws. Anything larger than that, it's recommended to use oil. All our oil saws are in our saw shop. MKs are good blades. That's what we use on our larger saws. In your case, your tile saw is made to be used with water, so the 10" blade on there is fine. Make sure to spin it dry when you're done to prevent rust. It's not rocket science, but once you get familiar with the blade thicknesses, for cutting jaspers and agates you'll want a slightly thicker blade on the 4" saw. It's all about kerf size and the value of the rough you're cutting. The really thin .020 4" blades are way to thin for just slicing up jaspers and agates without a problem with flex and unnecessary in my opinion. A little thicker blade will make you much happier without all the worry. Right now I have a .020" blade on my 4" because I was sawing some real nice material. I would go with the .032". The difference in kerf size is like putting 2 pieces of paper on each side of the blade. Basically negligible. Consider the MK 225 10" blade for your tile saw. It's the one Vince uses on our 10" saws. www.amazon.com/MK-Diamond-158436-Continuous-Porcelain/dp/B00009YUJR/ref=sr_1_1?crid=EQAZMO8VMCEW&keywords=mk+225+hotdog+saw+blade&qid=1679704144&sprefix=mk+225+hotdog+sawblade%2Caps%2C128&sr=8-1ETA: Some sellers have them for cheaper on Ebay. www.ebay.com/itm/364182618369?hash=item54caf9c101:g:gMEAAOSwFLRkEM9G&amdata=enc%3AAQAHAAAAwFWgaboLTvfkWEx7LpgYM8uemWUpgkDpKEdeb%2BXqihnKcMXGAHSjMl6TXeYxZQ%2ByvaC5dDFFQnHps4BSFUEKMDxv%2Fr4ebaRPNkSYWSIVMs92LXpPWgF5NE%2Binjqt8JnHpVVaZzsQ9wSjyyWd9aaAwhYmhepJeLYEW4BaizY3k9CaPBWY2rlqkzE6q2n9PvmJ2LXyl0hteZv58zLIIGznqUsyUv3l%2FFrFfoyTiZmzerUVnvimLrn%2FAR0vmt9NTGrJ5g%3D%3D%7Ctkp%3ABk9SR9qa9uPiYQ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sorry hummingbirdstones ! I totally tagged you mistakenly- I meant to tag rocknewb101 . We each have a tiny beginner trim saw and a tile saw for slabbing. I got confused while reading the threads, sorry! 8 saws, including an 18" slab saw??? That's seriously awesome!!! And thank you for all the wisdom and feedback. I wish I could find a 4" blade with a .032 and 1/2" arbor, but all the thicker blades have been 5/8" arbor. I finally ended up ordering these for now: kingsleynorth.com/petra-slicer-electroplated-diamond-blade+kn_dimd_blade_desc-4%E2%80%9D-dia-x-0024-Core-x-0039-Rim-x-12%E2%80%9D-ArborI'm hoping the 0.024" will work okay for rough cutting cabs out of my pre-slabbed material. I'll take it slow and keep my fingers crossed. I went with the blade above because it's much less expensive... if the little saw isn't going to do what I bought it for, then I may need to sell and find something different. If that's the case, I don't want to drop $50 on a single saw blade first. I went with the MK Hot Dog for my 10" water cooled tile saw for now. We'll see how that does, I'm excited to play with it! Thank you SO much for all your feedback! |
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Post by Peruano on Mar 27, 2023 15:18:57 GMT -5
The mk hot fog blade is the best all purpose blade available. Go forth and cut.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Mar 27, 2023 21:33:37 GMT -5
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I'm sorry hummingbirdstones ! I totally tagged you mistakenly- I meant to tag rocknewb101 . We each have a tiny beginner trim saw and a tile saw for slabbing. I got confused while reading the threads, sorry! 8 saws, including an 18" slab saw??? That's seriously awesome!!! And thank you for all the wisdom and feedback. I wish I could find a 4" blade with a .032 and 1/2" arbor, but all the thicker blades have been 5/8" arbor. I finally ended up ordering these for now: kingsleynorth.com/petra-slicer-electroplated-diamond-blade+kn_dimd_blade_desc-4%E2%80%9D-dia-x-0024-Core-x-0039-Rim-x-12%E2%80%9D-ArborI'm hoping the 0.024" will work okay for rough cutting cabs out of my pre-slabbed material. I'll take it slow and keep my fingers crossed. I went with the blade above because it's much less expensive... if the little saw isn't going to do what I bought it for, then I may need to sell and find something different. If that's the case, I don't want to drop $50 on a single saw blade first. I went with the MK Hot Dog for my 10" water cooled tile saw for now. We'll see how that does, I'm excited to play with it! Thank you SO much for all your feedback! Not a problem Christi.  You can use a 5/8" arbor hole blade. You just need to get a bushing for it that reduces it to 1/2". |
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Post by catmandewe on Mar 27, 2023 22:56:44 GMT -5
If you need a water additive you can use the liquid jet dry that you can get for your dishwasher, its really really close to the standard lapidary water additives.
Tony
PS MK Hot Dog blade is the MK225 blade. MK305 is also designed for use in higher speed tile saws and to be used with water.
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christibeach
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by christibeach on Mar 28, 2023 15:08:17 GMT -5
If you need a water additive you can use the liquid jet dry that you can get for your dishwasher, its really really close to the standard lapidary water additives. Tony PS MK Hot Dog blade is the MK225 blade. MK305 is also designed for use in higher speed tile saws and to be used with water. That's awesome to know! Unfortunately I'm allergic to jet dry and most soaps/surfactants- do you know if borax will work also? I read something about it on another thread, and have my fingers crossed. Also, awesome to see you on here! My husband and I met you a year ago after camping in the hills north of your shop. We really appreciated your help and advice, and LOVED the material we purchased from your rock yard. Can't wait to visit again next time we're in the area! |
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christibeach
off to a rocking start
Member since February 2023
Posts: 13
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Post by christibeach on Mar 28, 2023 15:12:36 GMT -5
Not a problem Christi. You can use a 5/8" arbor hole blade. You just need to get a bushing for it that reduces it to 1/2". Wait, what?! Ohhhh my lanta, that's a whole new world of opportunity then! Thank you!! Back to Google I go, haha. |
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