khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 23, 2023 23:10:11 GMT -5
I bought some supposedly uncoated raw solid copper ear wires. For the life of me I cannot get them to patina with liver of sulfur gel. If I dip them hung on the end of a fresh piece of copper wire, the wire patina’s immediately, within 30 seconds. These ear wires will pick up dots of “patina”, more just like black specks in random places, no solid patina. I assume they are coated with something. I’ve tried sanding with a spider wheel as best as I can hold onto them, scrubbing with soap and ammonia, scrubbing with baking soda, and the ultrasonic machine. Nothing seems to clean them enough to help patina. I’ve decided now to just let them soak for hours and see what happens. Any idea on what might be the cause? Is a coating the likely culprit? If so, how to clean them??
|
|
|
|
Post by Pat on Mar 23, 2023 23:26:59 GMT -5
I don’t know, but would ask the seller. Good luck!
|
|
dirtsifter
Cave Dweller 
Co to za kamyczek?
Member since September 2022
Posts: 402 
|
Post by dirtsifter on Mar 23, 2023 23:29:06 GMT -5
Just a wild guess as I don't have much knowledge of these processes but is it possible the wire is an alloy? If it is a coating , perhaps test cleaning a piece of the wire with a mild acid such as lemon juice or vinegar? I know that lemon juice is sometimes used as a flux with certain electronic solder connections. Just throwing that out there
|
|
khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 24, 2023 0:33:39 GMT -5
Pat and dirtsifter Thank you. After tonight I do plan to contact the seller. I wanted to give a more earnest effort before doing so, just to make sure my first attempt wasn’t a fluke. I was also thinking maybe heating them to see what happens, if anything burns off and if they heat like copper wire should. That should help answer the alloy question too.
|
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Mar 24, 2023 1:24:11 GMT -5
Just a wild guess as I don't have much knowledge of these processes but is it possible the wire is an alloy? If it is a coating , perhaps test cleaning a piece of the wire with a mild acid such as lemon juice or vinegar? I know that lemon juice is sometimes used as a flux with certain electronic solder connections. Just throwing that out there  I have no basis for it...but I instantly thought soaking in vinegar might do the trick. I had some copper beads that wouldn't take a patina...so I'll be curious to see if there's a "known" solution for this. |
|
|
|
Post by liveoak on Mar 24, 2023 6:15:12 GMT -5
I have to throw it out there, if you really want to patina the ear wires ?
I never have, thinking that it might cause an irritation in your ear ?
Maybe I'm totally wrong (likely) but I usually let mine age naturally without any coating.
Patty
|
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Mar 24, 2023 7:09:36 GMT -5
I actually believe Patty might be right...
I did some searching and there's arguments for both sides. Some people might not know they have a sensitivity...so why risk it. The majority of the actual ear wire isn't going to be seen anyway...
|
|
gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
|
Post by gunsil on Mar 24, 2023 7:39:12 GMT -5
I believe patinated copper may be better against skin than raw copper which will turn skin green. I don't work with copper, only silver and gold, but usually I make my own ear wires, it is quick and easy enough. Perhaps if you made your own ear wires from known quality copper wire you wouldn't have the problem getting patina to take.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Mar 24, 2023 7:49:44 GMT -5
You got coated wire. I have bought some that CLAIMED to be raw copper but wasn't
Don't use a patina for earwires. It is irritating and it will wear off. Copper is too soft for earwires. I use copper colored niobium earwires from Rio. They are the perfect color, stronger and hyo allergenic.
|
|
rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,167
|
Post by rockbrain on Mar 24, 2023 9:11:12 GMT -5
I got coated 1/2 round from Amazon that claimed to be pure and uncoated. It sucks when you do several wraps and then find out.
|
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Mar 24, 2023 9:21:34 GMT -5
I got coated 1/2 round from Amazon that claimed to be pure and uncoated. It sucks when you do several wraps and then find out. I did, too. They got super nasty review and it was returned. |
|
khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 24, 2023 19:40:16 GMT -5
Hi everyone, thanks so much for all your thoughts! dirtsifter jasoninsd I'm going to try a vinegar soak tonight and attempt a LOS patina again, for the sake of science. I will report back. The 2.5 hour LOS soak last night just resulted in black splotches. liveoak gunsil rockjunquie Ya, I have gone round and round on this topic. Whether or not patina is irritating, but also plain copper turns peoples skin green. Lots of searches. I looked at a lot of listings. It's interesting, most sellers who are making really nice hand-crafted jewelry are using copper wire. They aren't making high end silver/gold jewelry, but still really artistic and high craftsmanship pieces and they are using mostly copper. I also asked friends to send pictures of their favorite earrings. Most look like the ear wires are some type of alloy, nothing fancy. I tried some stainless steel ear wires with my patina'd copper earrings and they just don't look right. I did plan to learn how to make my own wires but wanted some good examples first so I bought a few varieties. I had also looked extensively at the niobium ear wires but at $2-4 plus shipping per pair it seemed too high a price for me right now. Thank you for the Rio Grande link Tela, those prices look quite a bit better than where I was looking. I do actually prefer the idea of using a definite hypo-allergenic wire but was starting with pure copper with the intent to move up to higher end materials with time. I've contacted the seller, we shall see how that goes. |
|
vance71975
freely admits to licking rocks
Member since September 2022
Posts: 760
|
Post by vance71975 on Mar 24, 2023 23:26:51 GMT -5
I bought some supposedly uncoated raw solid copper ear wires. For the life of me I cannot get them to patina with liver of sulfur gel. If I dip them hung on the end of a fresh piece of copper wire, the wire patina’s immediately, within 30 seconds. These ear wires will pick up dots of “patina”, more just like black specks in random places, no solid patina. I assume they are coated with something. I’ve tried sanding with a spider wheel as best as I can hold onto them, scrubbing with soap and ammonia, scrubbing with baking soda, and the ultrasonic machine. Nothing seems to clean them enough to help patina. I’ve decided now to just let them soak for hours and see what happens. Any idea on what might be the cause? Is a coating the likely culprit? If so, how to clean them?? I used ammonia to Patina a solid copper vape worked pretty well not sure how well it would work on wire tho. If you want more green and less blue my understanding is you use Distilled white vinegar instead of ammonia. I think you can also do a mix of both. www.basketofblue.com/how-to-create-blue-patina-on-copper/www.instructables.com/Blue-Patina-on-Copper/ |
|
khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 25, 2023 2:28:56 GMT -5
Great articles, thank you vance71975 ! I have been meaning to look this up, just haven’t gotten to it among the many ideas I have. Probably wouldn’t use this on wire but I love the idea on larger copper pieces. 👍👍 |
|
khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 25, 2023 10:55:02 GMT -5
dirtsifter jasoninsd The vinegar worked! For a test I put 4 pair in a small ramekin just covered with vinegar. I planned to just let it sit in the bathroom with the fan on. Then I saw the ultrasonic machine, so I put the dish in there and popped it on for a half hour. I heard it go off but didn’t make it back to check on them for another couple hours. During this time they were soaking in warm vinegar due to the ultrasonic machine warming the water that I had set the vinegar dish down into. When I went to check them they had a very slight patina actually starting so I figured the coating must’ve been wearing off or weakened or maybe gone. I then rinsed them and since they were now dirty I sanded them with a spider wheel. I had previously tried a spider wheel to clean prior to patina and it didn’t work. Then I put them into the same patina solution I’d previously tried, so now it’s a couple days old, and they took a nice consistent brown, not black and blotchy, patina.👍 Thanks for the idea! I would not have thought of that. So the gist to removing an unknown clear coat on copper is a several hour vinegar soak, not sure the ultrasonic is necessary but it probably helped, not sure the warmth of the liquid is necessary but it probably helped, and I do think the sanding is necessary because they come out dirty with the start of a patina. If you are dealing with beads, I’d string them onto a wire and probably you’d be able to get them sanded clean using a flex shaft and spider wheel or a buffing arbor. A lot of extra work but at least you’d be able to use your materials.
|
|
khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 25, 2023 11:01:11 GMT -5
vance71975 As I was doing the clear coat removal using vinegar and the copper ear wires had started to patina in some spots due to the vinegar soak, the patina had some really pretty colors, very different from the liver of sulfur black. So your tutorials were well timed because they explain the rainbow colors being tied specifically to the vinegar. I knew there were all these different recipes, I just haven’t tried any of them yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by jasoninsd on Mar 25, 2023 11:03:05 GMT -5
Thanks for that update khara!!  |
|
dirtsifter
Cave Dweller
Co to za kamyczek?
Member since September 2022
Posts: 402
|
Post by dirtsifter on Mar 25, 2023 14:58:27 GMT -5
khara, I'm stoked about being able to help someone! Gives me the fizz
|
|
|
|
Post by rockjunquie on Mar 25, 2023 15:01:58 GMT -5
Khara, considering how cheap copper is, isn't that a lot of time/money to go through all that work?
Which spider did you use? The pink is for polishing. ETA Could be wrong. It might be for removing excess patina. Pumice
I would tumble the wire after the vinegar treatment. That might save you some time.
|
|
khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
|
Post by khara on Mar 25, 2023 19:11:48 GMT -5
rockjunquie Yes way too much time and effort. But initially I didn’t know what the problem was, then I figured they must be coated, then I wanted to know how effective and resistant the coating was and if it was removable. I just went straight to the yellow spider, the coarsest that I have. I could do a test and try the tumbler and see if I could eliminate the spider sanding step. If so then it’s just time letting the vinegar work and time letting the tumbler work which would be much better and maybe worth it. Good idea!👍 My steel shot is now combined with plastic pellets for gentler tumbling of wraps but I’ve noticed the two tend to separate so I should be able to get mostly steel shot to tumble these ear wires better.
|
|
