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So, I kind of lost my mind a bit and thought I'd do a project to see if it is worthwhile/cost effective to buy old Thumler's rotaries off eBay and refurbish them.
My overall goal is to buy a used machine and fix it up to "like new" in terms of operation while saving at least 25% in overall cost when compared to buying a new machine. I chose Thumler's, because you can get them at a reasonable price online and the parts are affordable.
I bought 3 machines spending a total of $334.68 including shipping and tax. The machines would retail new for approximately $598.00 not including shipping and tax. I have a shared google sheets file here: Thumler's Cost Sheet. There are 3 tabs (sheets) in the file with each sheet documenting the costs for each machine. When I am done fixing them up I'll do a cost benefit analysis and determine what I think is a reasonable price for an old Thumler's machine - a price where you can do some refurbishment and still get it significantly cheaper than a new machine (at least 25% less).
The machines I bought: Model A (111), Model A-R1, Model A-R6 (9lber). I'll do some descriptions below of each machine with pictures.
Thumler's Model A (111) This is an interesting "vintage" machine I got for 106.71 including shipping and tax. It is an earlier version of the A-R2 and rolls two 3lb barrels. Since a new A-R2 goes for about $205.00 I figure I saved about $100 compared to a new machine. This unit has an old Franklin Electric motor that purrs like a kitten! Someone dated the unit 12/1977 - I think it was the seller. Right now I think all I need to get it going is a new idler shaft, belt, and 2 retainer rings ($23.25). Pics:
Model A-R1 If there is any unit I lose money on - it will be this one. I paid $74.58 for this one with shipping and tax - a new A-R1 costs ~$150.00. This unit also has an old Franklin Electric motor. The motor runs but it is real loud and shakes like mad. I read a thread on RTH recently about how you can soak a motor in mineral spirits and let it air dry, and that can get the motor running perfectly again. I'm going to try that. If that doesn't work I'll need a new motor (which will put me over budget). This unit also needs a new idler shaft and belt. It came with some extra retainer rings, so I don't need those. All the materials, as long as I don't need a motor will only cost $19.00. I will say the barrel with this unit is on it's last leg, it is definitely usable, but will have a limited lifespan. Pics:
Model A-R6 With this unit I got real lucky. I paid $153 with shipping and tax, and I think this thing is ready to go right out of the box. A new A-R6 costs ~$243.00, but it does look like this is a discontinued model. So, I am not sure how long I will be able to get parts for it. That said I'm going to pick up a belt, retainer ring and barrel lid for it at a cost of $14.50. Pics:
This unit also came with a bunch of grit packs and plastic pellets (~$50.00 marked value)
I don't plan on working on these for a couple weeks, but I finally got a chance to check all the machines out last night. Parts prices are based on the rock shed, because I plan on ordering from them. I'll update machine status once I've fixed it up and have it run for a week of coarse grinding. After I get them all done I'll do a summary of the experience and make sure all costs are shared in the google sheet.
I have one of these and the motor started jamming up after running a short time. So I unplugged it and took it outside, sprayed inside all the holes with engine degreaser and let it sit a few minutes. Then rinsed it out wit the hose and let it dry thoroughly for a few days. Has been running perfectly since, running 24/7 now for a couple of months. Motors can get dirty and gummed up. Worth giving a cleaning a try before replacing them.
I have one of these and the motor started jamming up after running a short time. So I unplugged it and took it outside, sprayed inside all the holes with engine degreaser and let it sit a few minutes. Then rinsed it out wit the hose and let it dry thoroughly for a few days. Has been running perfectly since, running 24/7 now for a couple of months. Motors can get dirty and gummed up. Worth giving a cleaning a try before replacing them.
Thanks! I will definitely try to clean the motor out before replacing it.
Update: I have ordered all the parts I think I need to refurbish these machines and I have updated the Thumler's Cost sheet. (file has 3 sheets - one for each machine) I will run the A-R6 this week to make sure it works properly, and I will run the other 2 in the coming weeks. I soaked the A-R1 motor in mineral spirits for 48 hours and it is now purring like a kitten! (which blows my mind to be honest!) I'll put this machine back together and test it out in the coming weeks.
In general, if all machines prove functional I saved between 29.56% and 35.01% per machine when all costs were taken into account. I paid between 36.88% - 50.28% less for each machine than the current market price for the machine new. If each machine turns out to be fully functional it is safe to say that a user could save ~30% on a Thumler's tumbler if they pay 50% market price (including tax and shipping) and refurbish the machine. Key factors is that the machine has a functional barrel and motor. Without a functional motor it is unlikely a person would see a savings by buying used and refurbishing the machine unless they paid only 20% of the current market price. If the machine needed a new barrel I would suggest that a person pay no more than 25-30% of the current market price - shipping and tax included. All this to say that it is possible to get significant savings by purchasing a used Thumler's and refurbishing it, but you need to make sure you are not overpaying for the used machine. I'd say 80% of the used Thumler machines on eBay are overpriced when you factor in costs of refurbishment/shipping/tax. Check out the link to the Thumler's cost sheet above to see my specfic numbers.
That said I may be jumping the gun here, because I haven't even tested the machines yet, but after disassembling them and testing the motors I don't see any reasons why they will not work? I will update and correct my findings if necessary.
That said I'd like to do the same thing with a lortone machine, but I have not found a used one at a reasonable price on eBay. Lortones seem to command a higher price. In my opinion, having both, lortones are a superior machine. Motors are the same, but the design of the lortone machine and barrel is better in my opinion.
Dillon, I have NO clue how I didn't get into this thread until now!!
What a great restore project! Really cool!!!
Favorite Quotes: "It always seems impossible until it is done." - Nelson Mandela "Life becomes easier when you learn to accept the apology you never got." - Robert Brault "You can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy." - Nightbirde (RIP 2/19/22)
Dillon, I have NO clue how I didn't get into this thread until now!!
What a great restore project! Really cool!!!
Thanks. With shortages, high prices and long wait times for tumblers I thought this might help some folks out. Maybe help folks new to the hobby avoid getting ripped off by some of the used machines on ebay. I mean just last week I saw one that listed shipping as $72.00!!!
I'm also trying to build a vibratory tumbler using an HVAC retainer box, $30 motor, Lot-O springs and a Lot-O barrel. My goal is to see if I can do it for under $125??? Not sure if it will work, but why not give it a shot!! I mean these vibratory tumblers are going for 300 bucks now! Time to see if we can make some cheaper on our own. When I have time I'll start that thread up too. It would be fun to do some sort of crazy build contest (just for bragging rights!).
Dillon, I have NO clue how I didn't get into this thread until now!!
What a great restore project! Really cool!!!
Thanks. With shortages, high prices and long wait times for tumblers I thought this might help some folks out. Maybe help folks new to the hobby avoid getting ripped off by some of the used machines on ebay. I mean just last week I saw one that listed shipping as $72.00!!!
I'm also trying to build a vibratory tumbler using an HVAC retainer box, $30 motor, Lot-O springs and a Lot-O barrel. My goal is to see if I can do it for under $125??? Not sure if it will work, but why not give it a shot!! I mean these vibratory tumblers are going for 300 bucks now! Time to see if we can make some cheaper on our own. When I have time I'll start that thread up too. It would be fun to do some sort of crazy build contest (just for bragging rights!).
That'd be cool!!
Definitely document your build. That would be a seriously awesome addition to the DIY section!!!
Favorite Quotes: "It always seems impossible until it is done." - Nelson Mandela "Life becomes easier when you learn to accept the apology you never got." - Robert Brault "You can't wait until life isn't hard anymore before you decide to be happy." - Nightbirde (RIP 2/19/22)
Got the Model A from 1977 up and running. That old machine is spinning like a top!
I'm gonna put these machines through the ringer for a couple of months to make sure they are reliable then I'll write up a summary! I really wanna outfit this thing with a Model B motor and run 2 lortone 45C barrels on it! I'll save that for the "Pimp my thumler" version of this thread.
For those old motors a flush out with aerosol brake cleaner, followed a couple days later by filling the oiler points with a sewing machine oil like 3 in 1 is a good way to un-gum it. It takes a bit for the felt to dry out after the brake cleaner, and also to re-saturate with fresh oil, give it plenty of time. Remember almost all of those thumler bases up to 6 lbs will fit any of the barrels if I recall. Unrepairable Tumbler bases are spare barrels, or dedicated barrels for a specific grit
“If history could teach us anything, it would be that private property is inextricably linked with civilization.” - Ludwig Von Mises
Well the A-R1 ran for pretty much a month, but the motor died on me today. I am going to try what Rockoonz suggests above to see if I can get some life back in it.
If I can't get the motor running again, and I have to purchase a new one, then I will have lost money on this unit compared to buying a new one - when all costs are taken into account.
I'm not too bummed about it because I did this as an experiment knowing it was probable that I'd lose money on a machine. Now I am really curious to see how the Model A from 1977 holds up, because it has the same model Franklin electric motor . . .
Well the A-R1 ran for pretty much a month, but the motor died on me today. I am going to try what Rockoonz suggests above to see if I can get some life back in it.
If I can't get the motor running again, and I have to purchase a new one, then I will have lost money on this unit compared to buying a new one - when all costs are taken into account.
I'm not too bummed about it because I did this as an experiment knowing it was probable that I'd lose money on a machine. Now I am really curious to see how the Model A from 1977 holds up, because it has the same model Franklin electric motor . . .
Be sure to give the motor lots of time for the solvents to evaporate, and plenty of time for the new oil to get into the bearings. Is the motor shaft sticky or crunchy when you turn by hand? Does the motor at least buzz when power is turned on?
“If history could teach us anything, it would be that private property is inextricably linked with civilization.” - Ludwig Von Mises
Well the A-R1 ran for pretty much a month, but the motor died on me today. I am going to try what Rockoonz suggests above to see if I can get some life back in it.
If I can't get the motor running again, and I have to purchase a new one, then I will have lost money on this unit compared to buying a new one - when all costs are taken into account.
I'm not too bummed about it because I did this as an experiment knowing it was probable that I'd lose money on a machine. Now I am really curious to see how the Model A from 1977 holds up, because it has the same model Franklin electric motor . . .
Be sure to give the motor lots of time for the solvents to evaporate, and plenty of time for the new oil to get into the bearings. Is the motor shaft sticky or crunchy when you turn by hand? Does the motor at least buzz when power is turned on?
Shaft is not sticky or crunchy. Motor makes no sound when plugged in, but it does get hot.
Post by velodromed on Sept 6, 2023 16:09:06 GMT -5
Bearings seized or bushings, whichever it has. They probably aren’t made to take apart? The motor getting hot when turned on is the giveaway though. Do the soaking in mineral oil for 24 hours thing. If it works after the couple days drying, you’re good. You can also spray it inside and out repeatedly with electrical or electrical contact cleaner while turning the shaft, if you don’t have mineral spirits or similar. Some compressed air helps also. Spray until the stuff coming out is clear. Let dry for a 12 hours and test. If the motor shaft can be ‘wiggled’, the bearing is shot. I don’t think bushings develop play, they just seize from gunk.
Post by southernlakehuronguy on Sept 18, 2023 15:05:42 GMT -5
dillonf, I've been watching E-bay for a good used tumbler. A new listing popped up for a Display model Thumlers AR2, brand new condition with everything but the instruction book. Total purchase price $ 120. Thanks for the suggestion.
dillonf, I've been watching E-bay for a good used tumbler. A new listing popped up for a Display model Thumlers AR2, brand new condition with everything but the instruction book. Total purchase price $ 120. Thanks for the suggestion.
Just make sure you check shipping. That's where they get you sometimes on eBay. If shipping is reasonable that is a good deal!
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Welcome to the Rock Tumbling Hobby Forum where we share a love of rocks and a sense of community as enduring as the stones we polish.
The RTH Forum of www.RockTumbling.com is an Amazon Associate site and we earn money from
qualifying purchases you make after clicking on our links such as this
Rock Tumbling Supplies on Amazon
link for instance, or any of our various product ads and banners. By clicking our links every time you begin your Amazon shopping
experience, you are generating a bit of revenue for the forum which helps us cover our expenses. Thank you for your support!