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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 4, 2023 10:17:08 GMT -5
That is a GREAT question! I'll be waiting to see what some answers are going to be!!
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 4, 2023 11:13:35 GMT -5
Generally speaking, gem grade stones are stones that are translucent and of facet grade quality. Highly included stones or non-transparent stones are generally not gem grade, although there are classes of stones that are almost always included (emeralds are the most well known) and also gemstones that can be both transparent or opaque (opal, jade). It gets complicated and a stones worth would be based on how "clean" (clarity) the stone is, the color saturation and the cut of the stone and the carat weight. When it comes to stones that are generally not considered gemstones, the use of the word gem in the name gets even more tricky. Gem bone for example is dino bone that has been agatized. Most dino bone is not agatized and is not cuttable. It is just fossilized, grayish, with no other color and the cells of the bone have not been filled with agate. Stones that are not gem quality but can but cut and are opaque are usually considered cab grade and do not command the same price as a gem quality stone. An example would be aquamarine. Here's a link to aquamarine pics. You can see just by looking at the pictures which ones are gem grade and which are cab (or even tumble) grade stones. duckduckgo.com/?q=aquamarine+stones&t=vivaldi&iax=images&ia=imagesThat's just off the top of my head, but I hope it helps.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 4, 2023 11:29:14 GMT -5
Generally speaking, gem grade stones are stones that are translucent and of facet grade quality. Highly included stones or non-transparent stones are generally not gem grade, although there are classes of stones that are almost always included (emeralds are the most well known) and also gemstones that can be both transparent or opaque (opal, jade). It gets complicated and a stones worth would be based on how "clean" (clarity) the stone is, the color saturation and the cut of the stone and the carat weight. When it comes to stones that are generally not considered gemstones, the use of the word gem in the name gets even more tricky. Gem bone for example is dino bone that has been agatized. Most dino bone is not agatized and is not cuttable. It is just fossilized, grayish, with no other color and the cells of the bone have not been filled with agate. Stones that are not gem quality but can but cut and are opaque are usually considered cab grade and do not command the same price as a gem quality stone. An example would be aquamarine. Here's a link to aquamarine pics. You can see just by looking at the pictures which ones are gem grade and which are cab (or even tumble) grade stones. duckduckgo.com/?q=aquamarine+stones&t=vivaldi&iax=images&ia=imagesThat's just off the top of my head, but I hope it helps. I was curious as to the definition...because... South Dakota's state mineral is Rose Quartz...but the state "gemstone" is the Fairburn Agate. From my limited understanding about rocks, I would say a Fairburn is an agate (the fortification part) within "host rocks" which are not agatized...I think the host rock could be classified as a jasper. To me, there's nothing "gem" quality about Fairburns...
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 4, 2023 11:40:59 GMT -5
Generally speaking, gem grade stones are stones that are translucent and of facet grade quality. Highly included stones or non-transparent stones are generally not gem grade, although there are classes of stones that are almost always included (emeralds are the most well known) and also gemstones that can be both transparent or opaque (opal, jade). It gets complicated and a stones worth would be based on how "clean" (clarity) the stone is, the color saturation and the cut of the stone and the carat weight. When it comes to stones that are generally not considered gemstones, the use of the word gem in the name gets even more tricky. Gem bone for example is dino bone that has been agatized. Most dino bone is not agatized and is not cuttable. It is just fossilized, grayish, with no other color and the cells of the bone have not been filled with agate. Stones that are not gem quality but can but cut and are opaque are usually considered cab grade and do not command the same price as a gem quality stone. An example would be aquamarine. Here's a link to aquamarine pics. You can see just by looking at the pictures which ones are gem grade and which are cab (or even tumble) grade stones. duckduckgo.com/?q=aquamarine+stones&t=vivaldi&iax=images&ia=imagesThat's just off the top of my head, but I hope it helps. I was curious as to the definition...because... South Dakota's state mineral is Rose Quartz...but the state "gemstone" is the Fairburn Agate. From my limited understanding about rocks, I would say a Fairburn is an agate (the fortification part) within "host rocks" which are not agatized...I think the host rock could be classified as a jasper. To me, there's nothing "gem" quality about Fairburns... I would take the state "gemstone" category very loosely. There are some states that don't have any true gemstones in them, so you gotta take it with a grain of salt. Rose quartz is also not a gemstone in the true sense. It is a "semi-precious" stone, the same as amethyst (or any of the quartz varieties), topaz, etc. One of the things that make a gemstone a true gemstone is rarity. In that regard, Fairburns qualify!
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 4, 2023 12:17:23 GMT -5
I was curious as to the definition...because... South Dakota's state mineral is Rose Quartz...but the state "gemstone" is the Fairburn Agate. From my limited understanding about rocks, I would say a Fairburn is an agate (the fortification part) within "host rocks" which are not agatized...I think the host rock could be classified as a jasper. To me, there's nothing "gem" quality about Fairburns... I would take the state "gemstone" category very loosely. There are some states that don't have any true gemstones in them, so you gotta take it with a grain of salt. Rose quartz is also not a gemstone in the true sense. It is a "semi-precious" stone, the same as amethyst (or any of the quartz varieties), topaz, etc. One of the things that make a gemstone a true gemstone is rarity. In that regard, Fairburns qualify! I was wondering if that was going to be the case with classifying them as "gemstones". LOL It's a case of throwing a label on something because they WANT it to be something in particular...not necessarily because it IS something in particular! LOL
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Post by parfive on Jul 4, 2023 12:26:27 GMT -5
Pair it up with old stock and you really have something special.
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 4, 2023 13:23:11 GMT -5
@hefty - That looks like a "marketing" label of gem!
To me, that looks like a piece of Original Owyhee Jasper
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Post by vegasjames on Jul 4, 2023 19:37:50 GMT -5
In my opinion it is just a worthless marketing term. Just like how they use the term "superfoods" these days. There is no such thing. It is just a made up marketing term to push sales.
Yes, gem silica, also known as "silicated chrysocolla" is not chrysocolla. It is a chalcedony stained by copper salts.
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,741
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Post by Mark K on Jul 4, 2023 20:48:03 GMT -5
Bullshit artists like to use those flashy words like gem and rare and old stock to influence the less experienced people into buying their stuff. Some stuff is truly rare such as Fairburns and iris agates, however, a lot of stuff is just regular minerals that are no more special than the stuff you luck into finding when you go out prospecting.
Sometimes the regular minerals will have a specific deposit, or a portion of a deposit that has a few small chunks of extraordinary material which is considerably better quality than is normal. Sometimes then you could call it rare or gem quality. An example would be my mountain in ID. There is a lot of agate and a lot of geodes and a fair amount of some really nice amethyst, but every once in a while I will break into a small pocket of amethyst that is actually faceting grade. Almost every time most of it falls into the rubble before I even see it and it is impossible to follow it down through the loose rock. That makes the recovered stuff even rarer. It still is not worth that much.
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 2,996
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Post by rockbrain on Jul 4, 2023 21:10:18 GMT -5
The Encylopedia Britannica- Why can't all minerals be gemstones? A mineral is an inorganic, naturally occurring substance with distinct chemistry and crystalline structure. Gemstones are materials that have an economic or aesthetic value. Therefore, not all gemstones are minerals. For example, amber is solidified tree resin, so it is not a mineral. "Gemstones are materials that have an economic or aesthetic value." That's a pretty broad definition. I saw another one when I Duckduckgoed it (doesn't roll of the tongue like Googled it) It said any precious or semiprecious stone. Those definitions cover about everything we work with! Robin's definition is a lot closer to what I was thinking.
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,741
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Post by Mark K on Jul 5, 2023 5:45:00 GMT -5
While they are right this time, often Encylopedia Britannica is about as reliable as Snopes. They make stuff up to fit an agenda frequently.
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 5, 2023 9:38:47 GMT -5
@hefty picture jaspers are a category of jaspers that usually (not always) display patterns that can look like scenery (hills or mountains, ground and ocean, ground and sky, etc.). Some have dendrites that look like trees. That's the reason they're called picture jasper. Not that you can see an actual picture of something in particular in them, although that can happen, too. There's a thread called What Do You See In A Stone: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/82129/stone
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 5, 2023 11:24:05 GMT -5
@hefty picture jaspers are a category of jaspers that usually (not always) display patterns that can look like scenery (hills or mountains, ground and ocean, ground and sky, etc.). Some have dendrites that look like trees. That's the reason they're called picture jasper. Not that you can see an actual picture of something in particular in them, although that can happen, too. There's a thread called What Do You See In A Stone: forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/82129/stoneIt still seems a little misleading. Every time you look at certain jaspers that word "picture" is so associated that I'm scanning the scene for the picture. I feel like 95% of them are not picturesque though so why are they still getting priced so high y'know. If a rough specimen with a real picture goes for $50/lb, great. But when they put the same price on another specimen with no pattern it's like hmmm, am I missing the picture in this one or am I just overpaying for something with picture in the name. Just like everything else, it's all supply and demand. I have some beautiful picture jaspers that don't necessarily have a "picture" of something in them, but they do remind me of rolling hills or mountains, etc. All rocks are expensive nowadays, unfortunately. So is actually going out hounding if you add in gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, your time and the effort to actually dig it out and drag it home. There's an easy solution, though. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it!
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Post by jasoninsd on Jul 5, 2023 21:35:30 GMT -5
It still seems a little misleading. Every time you look at certain jaspers that word "picture" is so associated that I'm scanning the scene for the picture. I feel like 95% of them are not picturesque though so why are they still getting priced so high y'know. If a rough specimen with a real picture goes for $50/lb, great. But when they put the same price on another specimen with no pattern it's like hmmm, am I missing the picture in this one or am I just overpaying for something with picture in the name. Just like everything else, it's all supply and demand. I have some beautiful picture jaspers that don't necessarily have a "picture" of something in them, but they do remind me of rolling hills or mountains, etc. All rocks are expensive nowadays, unfortunately. So is actually going out hounding if you add in gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, your time and the effort to actually dig it out and drag it home. There's an easy solution, though. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it! ...or in my case, I just don't let my wife find out about it! LOL
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Post by hummingbirdstones on Jul 5, 2023 22:30:20 GMT -5
Just like everything else, it's all supply and demand. I have some beautiful picture jaspers that don't necessarily have a "picture" of something in them, but they do remind me of rolling hills or mountains, etc. All rocks are expensive nowadays, unfortunately. So is actually going out hounding if you add in gas, wear and tear on your vehicle, your time and the effort to actually dig it out and drag it home. There's an easy solution, though. If you think it's too expensive, don't buy it! ...or in my case, I just don't let my wife find out about it! LOL
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Post by 1dave on Jul 7, 2023 2:04:49 GMT -5
Digging on a hillside in the early morning light.
You break into a crystal vug that sparkles in the sunlight. Your heart goes pitterpat.
That is jemmy.
Compare: You need money, have junk. What label will sell?
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dshanpnw
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since December 2020
Posts: 1,063
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Post by dshanpnw on Jul 8, 2023 19:49:40 GMT -5
I love this question. I think the first time I heard of something being referred to as "gem" was while watching videos of a seller of fine jaspers face polishing a specimen and calling it gem. To me that meant a perfect piece of jasper or whatever material you're working on with no scratches, no defects, and a brilliant shine, now that's "gem". I don't go by that rule anymore. I'm like Hefty wondering what is really gem?
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Post by stardiamond on Jul 8, 2023 21:30:34 GMT -5
Gem means to me high quality. When a person looks at a piece of material called bone and one called gem bone, the gem bone is nicer.
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Post by parfive on Jul 8, 2023 23:21:02 GMT -5
dshanpnw I almost mentioned him earlier, Doug. Back when I was buying a lot of material online, it seemed like just about every rock/slab/heel he listed was gem. : )
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