RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by RockyBeach on Aug 20, 2023 7:38:14 GMT -5
While experimenting to learn what quantity of grit results in a good product in a Vibratory, is there any negative from using too much grit other than the cost of the wasted grit ? At the other end of the scale, is there liable to be damage to the stones from running with too little grit while you wait to see if a slurry is going to form ? The threads with recipes and descriptions of what the slurries should look like have been a great help but new questions keep cropping up. A few more runs and lots of thread reading ![(magazine)](//storage.proboards.com/1258779/images/ynXjNvkKRfXQwIbCxydl.gif) and things will settle down .... hopefully !
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jimmie
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by jimmie on Aug 20, 2023 8:55:32 GMT -5
Too much grit in the vibe equals thick sludge which slows or stops the action. Plus it’s a nightmare to clean out cracks and crevices.
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dshanpnw
freely admits to licking rocks
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Post by dshanpnw on Aug 20, 2023 9:45:43 GMT -5
I use a recipe I found on here and I really do not deviate far from it since it works well. Just like when cooking with a recipe, if you add too much of a seasoning or something you can't take it out or simply fix that problem, whereas when adding too little, you can always add more. Too much grit would make the slurry very thick and no grinding action would happen, not to mention movement in the vibe would be super slow. I fear my rocks chipping and bruising if there is too little grit as when I first turn it on. I wait about an hour to check the slurry. I've never stopped a batch after just starting it to check for damage before the slurry develops, but I often wonder about that.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by RockyBeach on Aug 20, 2023 10:32:21 GMT -5
Too much grit in the vibe equals thick sludge which slows or stops the action. Plus it’s a nightmare to clean out cracks and crevices. My question was more along the line of will using more grit than is really needed ( but not so much that it obviously is slowing down the tumbling action ) impede the effectiveness of the grit itself. Too much that it is obviously slowing things down ... can be repaired by adding more water .. yes ? I have had problems with the opposite ... too much water leading to splashing ... since remedied by starting with wet rocks and adding water a bit at a time and spraying periodically.
Yah ... Overthinking things can be as bad as underthinking and just plowing ahead.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Member since July 2023
Posts: 240
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Post by RockyBeach on Aug 20, 2023 10:40:56 GMT -5
I use a recipe I found on here and I really do not deviate far from it since it works well. Just like when cooking with a recipe, if you add too much of a seasoning or something you can't take it out or simply fix that problem, whereas when adding too little, you can always add more. Too much grit would make the slurry very thick and no grinding action would happen, not to mention movement in the vibe would be super slow. I fear my rocks chipping and bruising if there is too little grit as when I first turn it on. I wait about an hour to check the slurry. I've never stopped a batch after just starting it to check for damage before the slurry develops, but I often wonder about that. The Thumbler 10 seems to be the closest to my RayTech 10 so am trying those directions. Figuring out the perfect ratio of ingredients takes more patience than waiting for the gravel to turn into shiny gems ! Reading the threads and taking copious notes has certainly helped with getting a general idea of what things should look and sound like.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Member since July 2023
Posts: 240
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Post by RockyBeach on Aug 21, 2023 9:10:04 GMT -5
I think in theory you could use too much grit, in the later stages especially. Like, if it only takes 1 tsp to advance the stones to the next stage, putting in 1 tbsp is not necessarily going to do it faster or better, I think the opposite could occur where some of grit is breaking down, but by day 3 there's still some grit unbroken, leaving deeper scratches. And maybe pulling the stones after the same amount of time could result in the over-gritted stones achieving an lower average smoothness; if the unbroken grit was un-doing the progress of the broken grit. I also have a theory about recharging grits. Like if I let all of my grit break down for 1 week then put in a tbsp more, I feel like the broken and unbroken grits can coagulate into a single grit or somehow align themselves in a bad way. The one time I recharged I got horrible undercutting, as if a very fine grit was being pressed on by a larger grit, which is getting pressed on by the stone, creating a higher pounds per square inch on the finely broken grit than would normally be expected. Kind of like a knife, tapering down to a hair edge, but having all that thicker metal behind the kerf giving it strength. No idea if that's actually what happened but now I try to not mix grit and use the least I can get away with. Can always repeat a stage if it's too little grit to complete the task Sounds like "too little" is better than "too much" ... Learning curves ...ugh ! This all reminds me of the recipes that call for "two mashed bananas" or take "six cucumbers" instead of weights of same. Thans for the input @hefty
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Post by velodromed on Aug 22, 2023 8:18:25 GMT -5
While experimenting to learn what quantity of grit results in a good product in a Vibratory, is there any negative from using too much grit other than the cost of the wasted grit ? At the other end of the scale, is there liable to be damage to the stones from running with too little grit while you wait to see if a slurry is going to form ? The threads with recipes and descriptions of what the slurries should look like have been a great help but new questions keep cropping up. A few more runs and lots of thread reading ![(magazine)](//storage.proboards.com/1258779/images/ynXjNvkKRfXQwIbCxydl.gif) and things will settle down .... hopefully ! I’ve always gone with the ‘less is more’ thing when loading a vibratory with grit. Typically using a level teaspoon of SiC or a half a teaspoon of AO. But your post got me wondering so I did an experiment, putting a couple teaspoons 220 SiC in my raytech 5 yesterday morning to see how it would run. First of all, it took a lot more monitoring because it would start to gunk up bad and I’d have to add more water. Then, after an hour, it seemed like there was too much water, so I had to let some evaporate. That cycle repeated itself several times and was a bit frustrating. It seemed to all come together overnight though, and it’s churning ok now… but the actions not as good. So I think I’ll stick with less as I usually do.
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Post by velodromed on Aug 26, 2023 22:13:58 GMT -5
I’m still experimenting. I reduced the amount of 220 SiC to one full teaspoon and added 1 tbs of borax. It still was too much. So I went with 3/4th tsp 220 and no borax. Much better! Next up is 500 SiC. I used a full teaspoon and 1 tbs borax. The action was poor over 48 hours of tumbling. I tried 1/2tsp 500 SiC and a bit less than a tbs of borax, which is what I normally would do, and the action was excellent. I’m done with my experiments. Here’s my vibe method… 3/4th tsp 220 SiC and no borax for 2 days. I’ll repeat if the rocks need it. 1/2 tsp 500 SiC and 3/4th tbs borax for 3 days. I’m switching to rock shed 600 SiC, it seems to work better. Cleaning stage with dawn dish soap a couple hours and switch to AO bowl and ceramics 1/2th tsp 1200 AO with 1 tbs borax for 2-3 days. Cleaning stage with dawn dish soap a couple hours 1/4th tsp .3 micron AO and 1 tbs borax for 3 days. Burnish with borax a few hours Cleaning stage with dawn dish soap a couple hours All done! I will start using psyllium fiber soon instead of borax, except for a final burnish.
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Post by Lazy Perfectionist on Aug 28, 2023 11:08:55 GMT -5
Excellent question - one I have myself! For clarification, when people are giving recipes please indicate the size of tumbler and type of rocks. I presume a vibe tumbler with 10 lb. capacity is going to require at least double that of a 4 lb. tumbler.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 3, 2023 10:41:41 GMT -5
next ? How long should one wait for a decent slurry to develop before deciding that more grit is needed ? I see that velodromed is using TEASPOONS (and fractions thereof) in the Raytech-5 but I don't seem to get a slurry coating in the RayTech-10 with a Tablespoon after a couple of hours ... am I being too impatient?
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Post by velodromed on Sept 3, 2023 10:58:44 GMT -5
next ? How long should one wait for a decent slurry to develop before deciding that more grit is needed ? I see that velodromed is using TEASPOONS (and fractions thereof) in the Raytech-5 but I don't seem to get a slurry coating in the RayTech-10 with a Tablespoon after a couple of hours ... am I being too impatient? I was using borax in all the vibe stages and the slurry builds up over the first few hours. Only the 180-200 range SiC builds up a noticeable slurry. With the 500 or 600 SiC it’s very light gray and AO is like super watered down milk. Last night I tried something different with a new batch of rocks going into stage 2 in the vibe. I want to get away from borax, except for pre-polish and polish. So I added 1 level tsp 180 grit only, no borax. After an hour or so it was struggling, so I added 1/4th tsp of 500 SiC and a few extra sprays of water. The action improved quickly and a nice gray slurry developed over the next hour. It still looked good this morning and is going strong. Don’t hesitate to experiment. The cool thing about vibratory tumblers is you can see the results of an experiment in days rather then weeks.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 3, 2023 11:12:52 GMT -5
next ? How long should one wait for a decent slurry to develop before deciding that more grit is needed ? I see that velodromed is using TEASPOONS (and fractions thereof) in the Raytech-5 but I don't seem to get a slurry coating in the RayTech-10 with a Tablespoon after a couple of hours ... am I being too impatient? I was using borax in all the vibe stages and the slurry builds up over the first few hours. Only the 180-200 range SiC builds up a noticeable slurry. With the 500 or 600 SiC it’s very light gray and AO is like super watered down milk. Last night I tried something different with a new batch of rocks going into stage 2 in the vibe. I want to get away from borax, except for pre-polish and polish. So I added 1 level tsp 180 grit only, no borax. After an hour or so it was struggling, so I added 1/4th tsp of 500 SiC and a few extra sprays of water. The action improved quickly and a nice gray slurry developed over the next hour. It still looked good this morning and is going strong. Don’t hesitate to experiment. The cool thing about vibratory tumblers is you can see the results of an experiment in days rather then weeks. Your patient encouragement is appreciated ... am getting better at waiting to see what happens ... knowing that I won't really damage anything as long as things don't dry out completely helps ... my problem is over-compenating with too much water but am working that out as well ...some of the water on the clear lid seems to be condensation rather than "splashing". I have been doing stage changes too late in the day to see the results over a few hours ... re-scheduling will help with that (hopefully!)
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
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Hounding and tumbling
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Post by dillonf on Sept 3, 2023 11:46:52 GMT -5
I was using borax in all the vibe stages and the slurry builds up over the first few hours. Only the 180-200 range SiC builds up a noticeable slurry. With the 500 or 600 SiC it’s very light gray and AO is like super watered down milk. Last night I tried something different with a new batch of rocks going into stage 2 in the vibe. I want to get away from borax, except for pre-polish and polish. So I added 1 level tsp 180 grit only, no borax. After an hour or so it was struggling, so I added 1/4th tsp of 500 SiC and a few extra sprays of water. The action improved quickly and a nice gray slurry developed over the next hour. It still looked good this morning and is going strong. Don’t hesitate to experiment. The cool thing about vibratory tumblers is you can see the results of an experiment in days rather then weeks. Your patient encouragement is appreciated ... am getting better at waiting to see what happens ... knowing that I won't really damage anything as long as things don't dry out completely helps ... my problem is over-compenating with too much water but am working that out as well ...some of the water on the clear lid seems to be condensation rather than "splashing". I have been doing stage changes too late in the day to see the results over a few hours ... re-scheduling will help with that (hopefully!) I have a Lot-O. I feel I don't need borax in any stages except polish. The polish stage is always a bit thin for my liking - I'm still trying to figure out the best thing to put in there to thicken the slurry. Generally the 220 and 500 stages need more water as the slurry continues to thicken as the rocks tumble. Generally, for me I need a lot less water additions in the pre-polish and polish stages. I do 1tblspn 220, 1tblspn 500, 1/2 teaspn 1000 (sometimes more), 1/2 teaspn of polish (sometimes I add a tablespn of borax in the polish stage I'm still playing with this).
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Post by Peruano on Sept 3, 2023 15:51:44 GMT -5
next ? How long should one wait for a decent slurry to develop before deciding that more grit is needed ? I see that velodromed is using TEASPOONS (and fractions thereof) in the Raytech-5 but I don't seem to get a slurry coating in the RayTech-10 with a Tablespoon after a couple of hours ... am I being too impatient? Use a dollop of dawn before adding grit and use a bit more grit. It will form a slurry.
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Post by velodromed on Sept 3, 2023 20:25:08 GMT -5
next ? How long should one wait for a decent slurry to develop before deciding that more grit is needed ? I see that velodromed is using TEASPOONS (and fractions thereof) in the Raytech-5 but I don't seem to get a slurry coating in the RayTech-10 with a Tablespoon after a couple of hours ... am I being too impatient? Use a dollop of dawn before adding grit and use a bit more grit. It will form a slurry. I’m trying your idea with a drizzle of soap during a stage 2 vibe run over night. I’m curious how it does.
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Post by velodromed on Sept 4, 2023 16:52:50 GMT -5
RockyBeachThat was interesting, putting a little bit of dish soap in there. I think I put too much because it foamed up a lot. But it did seem to really smooth up the action. I’ll probably try it again another time. I am trying something new today. I put a little bit of Metamucil in there, a bit less than a teaspoon. I’ve heard people using that with good success.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 6, 2023 8:38:41 GMT -5
Progress report with the RayTech-10 1 1/2 teaspoons #2 grit with 1 Tablespoon Borax and got a nice grey shiny slurry in about two hours yesterday. Bad news is that I will be AFH (away from home) for two days starting tomorrow so will drain, wash and leave rocks underwater until my return rather than leaving them tumbling and possibly drying too much. Will be camping and looking for agates and Yooperites in Herbster, WI. It's hot (for Wisconsin ![(gen_hot)](//storage.proboards.com/1258779/images/jkViOnvKCXucCSUjPNWB.gif) ) and muggy and the lake water is COLD!!!! but the beach looked promising when I stopped there briefly once upon a time before being bitten by the lapidary bug.
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RockyBeach
starting to spend too much on rocks
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Post by RockyBeach on Sept 6, 2023 21:03:56 GMT -5
@hefty
I have only been to one other beach near Bayfield (Little Sandy) and it was nice but nothing spectacular ... AND it was COLD and windy so lots of waves made it really NOISY!!!!!
I am really just a casual "pretty rock" gatherer at this point BUT I did buy a yooperlight and have a friend near Herbster who has found them there. He traded me one for a small piece of petrified wood I had bought in Flagstaff many moons ago but I would like to find at least one on my own.
Not sure I will be able to recognize an agate if when I find one <--positive thinking ! but am game to try. I was at this beach very briefly and found some "pretties" so have high hopes. I found a couple of pieces of greenstone and got lots of rounded pebbles that shined up nicely ... lots of quartz of various shades. This will be my first foray north after reading the posts here and looking at the pictures and spending lots of time with the Michigan Rocks Videos so hopefully I have learned something !
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