twisted
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2023
Posts: 4
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Post by twisted on Sept 27, 2023 20:19:28 GMT -5
I've been rehabbing this saw so I can decide whether I'm selling my 16-in Royal or this 18" one. After spending weeks cleaning out the muck from the abuse of prior owner, putting new belts on,aligning the wonky hood,checking all parts for wear and pinging the original worn Sungem blade I put oil in the saw and tested it with a smallish agate. It cut fine. I then switched out blades to a brand new HP agate eater, checked blade for trueness and put a bigger agate in to cut. The feed seemed to stop working at about 1/3 way through. I first thought it was the feed dog/ split nut so disassembled that checked/cleaned all threads on the nut and screw and reassembled ( a real PITA for the spring). Retested with no blade and the carriage fed all the way along the screw just fine.Tried again to cut the same agate with same blade and it did the same thing.Changed blade back to old one and retested and it finished the cut. I am perplexed on why the feed stops when using the agate eater blade. That Sungem blade is so old I can't even find out when MK quit making them. Eventually it will need to be replaced and that's why I got the agate eater. Any insight is appreciated.
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vwfence
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2013
Posts: 557
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Post by vwfence on Sept 27, 2023 21:38:18 GMT -5
how badley worn is the split nut
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,623
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Post by QuailRiver on Sept 27, 2023 22:24:12 GMT -5
Lay a metal straight edge across the HP Agate Eater blade at multiple directions and on both sides of the blade to make sure that the blade isn't bent or cupped and that the core is an even thickness.
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 27, 2023 22:50:10 GMT -5
Your old continuous blade was designed for a lot slower blade speed, newer sintered blades run about twice as fast, especially the agate eater. (1750 X motor pulley diameter) divided by the Arbor pulley diameter will give you blade RPM. 18" should be 1000 to 1250 RPM and in my experience more is better, I usually increase the motor pulley size to increase speed. Feed should be no faster than 5 mins/inch and I run almost 7 min/in on my 18. I think your feed thread pitch is probably 20TPI so 4 rpm. The 20" saw I'm setting up will be a little over 3RPM at the screw. Try moving the blade nut up and down, if it moves ANY you need arbor bearings.
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twisted
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2023
Posts: 4
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Post by twisted on Sept 28, 2023 7:51:28 GMT -5
how badley worn is the split nut Split not and feed screw have little to no wear.
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twisted
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2023
Posts: 4
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Post by twisted on Sept 28, 2023 7:56:16 GMT -5
Lay a metal straight edge across the HP Agate Eater blade at multiple directions and on both sides of the blade to make sure that the blade isn't bent or cupped and that the core is an even thickness. I did do that before installing the blade and clamped a pencil in the vise to check it again after install. That's kind of the beauty and the curse of the agate eater. It can be pulled back into shape if needed and the teeth can be replaced if you're ruin one.
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twisted
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2023
Posts: 4
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Post by twisted on Sept 28, 2023 8:16:09 GMT -5
Your old continuous blade was designed for a lot slower blade speed, newer sintered blades run about twice as fast, especially the agate eater. (1750 X motor pulley diameter) divided by the Arbor pulley diameter will give you blade RPM. 18" should be 1000 to 1250 RPM and in my experience more is better, I usually increase the motor pulley size to increase speed. Feed should be no faster than 5 mins/inch and I run almost 7 min/in on my 18. I think your feed thread pitch is probably 20TPI so 4 rpm. The 20" saw I'm setting up will be a little over 3RPM at the screw. Try moving the blade nut up and down, if it moves ANY you need arbor bearings. Thank you. I am really thinking it may be the pulley sizes. The blade arbor is good with no play, first thing I checked on this saw was the arbor and feed motor. The pulley sizes are different for both the blade and the feed motor on my 16-in Royal as compared to this 18". I never had an issue with the 16-in saw even when I changed blade sizes. I struggle with figuring out speed for pulley sizes. Perhaps I'll just buy some pulleys to match the sizes on the 16-in royal at least for feed. What sizes are you running on the motor and the blade pulleys and what sizes are you running on the feed motor and screw pulleys for your saw?
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vwfence
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2013
Posts: 557
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Post by vwfence on Sept 28, 2023 9:23:01 GMT -5
is the screw feed pullys and belt or direct mount
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 28, 2023 11:43:35 GMT -5
My FranTom 18 is running a 3.45" pulley on the motor and a 5.5 on the arbor. Nets me about 1075 RPM on the old continuous blade that's in it now, and is fine for the 303 or clone that will likely replace it. I get cast iron pulleys from Amazon for saws, the aluminum and zinc pot metal ones tend to fail. On a 16 I would run faster, more like a 5" arbor pulley. I like motor pulleys to be at least 2.5" for more surface and less slippage. vwfence the Royal saws have pulleys on the feed. This listing has a drop down for available ID and OD, You can use the RTH Amazon link and search TB Woods as well. www.amazon.com/dp/B003H057IU/?coliid=I192RLC41H5YD4&colid=2WJJ2PBT4IQ0A&ref_=list_c_wl_lv_ov_lig_dp_it&th=1
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 28, 2023 11:55:57 GMT -5
I just finished new wiring on my 20" Spartan saw I brought home back in May, I think. When I get a little further I'll post a thread.
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vwfence
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2013
Posts: 557
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Post by vwfence on Sept 28, 2023 21:44:45 GMT -5
isnt the royall actually a mohave industries saw
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Post by Rockoonz on Sept 28, 2023 23:53:13 GMT -5
isnt the royall actually a mohave industries saw Yes and no. Mojave and Jenkins which became Royal are all versions of a set of plans in the lapidary journal back in the 60's. There were others as well, like my little 10 inch saw that probably had a Rich's Rock Shop label. I have a very old set of Mojave plans like they used to sell on eBay.
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vwfence
has rocks in the head
Member since January 2013
Posts: 557
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Post by vwfence on Sept 29, 2023 0:48:16 GMT -5
I had an Ideal which was one over their kits and built in Bullhead City , that had the motor on the shaft like a Lortone 12 inch saw . when the motorr go bad on the 3 i have left here i plan to do that with them and use variablr speed motors on them . I have a couple 0 to 7 rpm motors
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Post by Peruano on Sept 29, 2023 6:24:33 GMT -5
So just time your sled speed and make sure its slow enough and use a chart to compute desired pulley sizes to achieve proper surface of blade speed. (is it measured in inches per second or mintue?) It all comes down to having enough diamonds run by the specimen to achieve the work and blade speed is one component and sled/vice speed is the other.
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Post by catmandewe on Sept 29, 2023 13:16:26 GMT -5
The HP agate eater blade takes a bit to break in, thus it is grinding more material than the old worn blade. Grinding more material creates more pressure on the vise, when it gets too much pressure the spring lets it slip over a tooth to keep it from going too fast and ruining something.
You either need to get the blade broken in or add more spring pressure to your feed dogs.
Tony
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