dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 1, 2023 19:28:18 GMT -5
I'm looking for a better way to crush rock than bashing it with a 4lb hammer and either watching the pieces fly, or ruining a towel I am holding over it to prevent shards of rock from flying around. I often get rough - collected and bought that is too big for the tumbler. I thought I could cut stuff like that down to size with my 6" Hi-Tech trim saw, but one burned out motor later I realized that is unrealistic as a permanent solution. As a result, I have been looking for a way to safely crush rock down to tumbling size at home "fairly" easily. I found these 2 items online that I am considering. For ~$135 they don't seem bad, but I'm not convinced it is the best solution. This one has a pipe with an ID of 3" and a depth of 6"  Then I could get this extra mortar that has an ID of 6" and depth of 6" for bigger rocks  Is there a better tool for crushing rock down to tumbling size that I am overlooking? Any advice or suggestions are appreciated! |
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ashley
Cave Dweller 
Member since February 2023
Posts: 943 
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Post by ashley on Oct 1, 2023 20:30:00 GMT -5
Following… I bet vegasjames or jamesp could give some advice they both bust up a lot of rock. |
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Post by oregon on Oct 1, 2023 23:37:05 GMT -5
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 2, 2023 5:18:35 GMT -5
Thanks. This is pretty much what I do except less volume and using a 4lb hammer. I'm looking for something a little safer (less flying shards of stone), and something less destructive on the surface I am smashing the rocks on. I've broken one concrete paver already. That said this may be the best way to go, but I'm hoping to explore alternatives. |
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Post by Peruano on Oct 2, 2023 6:31:39 GMT -5
Your proposed gold ore crusher will do just that. I'm pretty sure it will produce powder and very few usable rocks.
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Post by liveoak on Oct 2, 2023 6:38:55 GMT -5
Inspiration to build one :
Patty
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RWA3006
Cave Dweller
Member since March 2009
Posts: 4,690 
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Post by RWA3006 on Oct 2, 2023 7:08:08 GMT -5
Your proposed gold ore crusher will do just that. I'm pretty sure it will produce powder and very few usable rocks. Concur. |
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Post by vegasjames on Oct 2, 2023 8:27:05 GMT -5
I get the cardboard produce boxes that have the high walls and lips up top to help catch flying fragments. Then the I place a cast iron railroad tie plate in the bottom and put the rocks on top and smash them with a small sledge hammer. Very little of the fragments escape the box. I could put some more cardboard over the front hole to catch more I guess.
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Post by Pat on Oct 2, 2023 17:15:07 GMT -5
I asked a friend the same question He said I needed 32 lb hammer. 😮
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 2, 2023 18:54:18 GMT -5
Thank you all! Good to know that the gold crusher will only make powder and not actually break the rock up into tumble sized pieces effectively. Looks like it will continue to be the 4 pounder and the chisel!! I need to track down a metal railroad plate or something similar to create a good bashing surface. The missus will be upset with me if I bash up the garage floor, or break another paver  . |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 2, 2023 18:58:32 GMT -5
Inspiration to build one :
Patty
That first machine is awesome! I definitely don't need it, but I definitely do want it! |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 2, 2023 19:04:53 GMT -5
I get the cardboard produce boxes that have the high walls and lips up top to help catch flying fragments. Then the I place a cast iron railroad tie plate in the bottom and put the rocks on top and smash them with a small sledge hammer. Very little of the fragments escape the box. I could put some more cardboard over the front hole to catch more I guess. Thanks I will try that. |
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Post by aDave on Oct 2, 2023 23:47:15 GMT -5
Thanks. This is pretty much what I do except less volume and using a 4lb hammer. I'm looking for something a little safer (less flying shards of stone), and something less destructive on the surface I am smashing the rocks on. I've broken one concrete paver already. That said this may be the best way to go, but I'm hoping to explore alternatives. I was once in the same position as you, wondering how to size down material that was too large for my tumbler. And, I explored multiple options, including a setup like vegasjames and Drummond Island Rocks used. Thing is, depending what I was going to be breaking up by impact, I didn't want to create more fractures with fracture prone material. So, that pretty much eliminated a hammer and/or chisel method for me. So, I ended up finding a nearly new tile saw on Craigslist, and I used it to cut to size down. If the material was too large, even for the saw, I could score a line in the rock, insert a chisel, and then hit that with a hammer. Results were mixed depending on what I was breaking at the time, but I was happier that way instead of breaking the rock with a hammer. There are pros and cons to sizing down with a saw, but it depends on who you ask. Some folks won't saw pieces to tumble, as they don't want straight lines formed by the sawn edges. They want more "roundness" to the rocks, so they would stick to breaking (with a hammer). Folks like me, on the other hand, are not concerned about that "straight" edge left by a saw. When I tumbled, I tried to get to "perfection" in my shaping, so any natural look to the rock was eliminated, and it made no difference to me that a rock was cut. A "perfectly" finished rock doesn't look natural, so starting with a cut edge didn't matter to me at all. As to the straight edge left after the cut, and then with the rock totally completed through it's tumble, I've never had anyone be critical of the rock not looking "natural." They were more impressed by the finish polish, and no one ever asked if the rock was cut. To me, that somewhat confirmed my technique was satisfactory, and I didn't have to get there by beating rocks with a hammer. That was my experience, so good luck to you whatever you do. |
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Post by HankRocks on Oct 3, 2023 5:40:51 GMT -5
In my case I rely on both of these methods to reduce rocks to tumble material. I use the "Hammer" method on badly fractured material that does not take much force to break down and make poor candidates for the slabs. There are also end cuts that I do not care to polish on the Vib Lap and naturally thin rocks which will be put under the hammer. I agree that flat cut and polished edges sell and in my mind in some cases look better as they show off the material. If I cut a rock and the slab is not to my liking I will cut a thick slab or two and break them up. A couple of the buckets I have bought over the years have contained large, badly cut thick slabs. They were all sacrificed to the the tumbler gods!!
In my case I am planning on selling most of what I tumble. As I sell at two different types of Shows, "Craft" and "Rock", I use two different methods to sell to slightly different sets of potential buyers. Craft Show - 1 big flat tub of 3 for a dollars rocks with a little bit of everything including unknowns and a lot of end cuts, they sell well to the kids and the grandma's. For the Rock Show I have 10 small containers with the rocks segregated by type and priced per each. This works as the crowd can be a bit more knowledgeable about the rocks they are buying. There are cut polished edges in both and they seem to sell.
Good luck
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 3, 2023 18:27:32 GMT -5
Thanks. This is pretty much what I do except less volume and using a 4lb hammer. I'm looking for something a little safer (less flying shards of stone), and something less destructive on the surface I am smashing the rocks on. I've broken one concrete paver already. That said this may be the best way to go, but I'm hoping to explore alternatives. I was once in the same position as you, wondering how to size down material that was too large for my tumbler. And, I explored multiple options, including a setup like vegasjames and Drummond Island Rocks used. Thing is, depending what I was going to be breaking up by impact, I didn't want to create more fractures with fracture prone material. So, that pretty much eliminated a hammer and/or chisel method for me. So, I ended up finding a nearly new tile saw on Craigslist, and I used it to cut to size down. If the material was too large, even for the saw, I could score a line in the rock, insert a chisel, and then hit that with a hammer. Results were mixed depending on what I was breaking at the time, but I was happier that way instead of breaking the rock with a hammer. There are pros and cons to sizing down with a saw, but it depends on who you ask. Some folks won't saw pieces to tumble, as they don't want straight lines formed by the sawn edges. They want more "roundness" to the rocks, so they would stick to breaking (with a hammer). Folks like me, on the other hand, are not concerned about that "straight" edge left by a saw. When I tumbled, I tried to get to "perfection" in my shaping, so any natural look to the rock was eliminated, and it made no difference to me that a rock was cut. A "perfectly" finished rock doesn't look natural, so starting with a cut edge didn't matter to me at all. As to the straight edge left after the cut, and then with the rock totally completed through it's tumble, I've never had anyone be critical of the rock not looking "natural." They were more impressed by the finish polish, and no one ever asked if the rock was cut. To me, that somewhat confirmed my technique was satisfactory, and I didn't have to get there by beating rocks with a hammer. That was my experience, so good luck to you whatever you do. Thank you! I don't mind flat edges either. When I get a better saw I will definitely cut up stuff for the tumbler! |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 3, 2023 18:31:08 GMT -5
In my case I rely on both of these methods to reduce rocks to tumble material. I use the "Hammer" method on badly fractured material that does not take much force to break down and make poor candidates for the slabs. There are also end cuts that I do not care to polish on the Vib Lap and naturally thin rocks which will be put under the hammer. I agree that flat cut and polished edges sell and in my mind in some cases look better as they show off the material. If I cut a rock and the slab is not to my liking I will cut a thick slab or two and break them up. A couple of the buckets I have bought over the years have contained large, badly cut thick slabs. They were all sacrificed to the the tumbler gods!! In my case I am planning on selling most of what I tumble. As I sell at two different types of Shows, "Craft" and "Rock", I use two different methods to sell to slightly different sets of potential buyers. Craft Show - 1 big flat tub of 3 for a dollars rocks with a little bit of everything including unknowns and a lot of end cuts, they sell well to the kids and the grandma's. For the Rock Show I have 10 small containers with the rocks segregated by type and priced per each. This works as the crowd can be a bit more knowledgeable about the rocks they are buying. There are cut polished edges in both and they seem to sell. Good luck Thanks Hank, I agree. The idea of cutting some thick slices or end pieces then giving them a wack or two in order to get them to tumble sized makes a lot of sense. |
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hypodactylus
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2021
Posts: 483
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Post by hypodactylus on Oct 3, 2023 22:01:50 GMT -5
Sometimes I use a saw, sometimes I use a hammer/chisel, and sometimes I just use a hammer.
When I hammer and/or chisel, I put the rock on an 8 x 12 x .5 inch steel plate which I tend to place on top of a cut up door mat on the pavement or concrete.
Like others have mentioned, I set up some cardboard around my working area to prevent shards from flying around. Having your skin, eyes, ears, and lungs covered helps as well 🙂.
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Post by aDave on Oct 4, 2023 0:51:10 GMT -5
Thank you! I don't mind flat edges either. When I get a better saw I will definitely cut up stuff for the tumbler! I hope you don't mind a couple of extra thoughts, especially if you go the benchtop tile saw route. Many folks that have used a tile saw most often complain about standing in front of the saw while cutting and getting sprayed with water as the blade turns through the sump. But, the great thing about these table top type saws is that you don't have to stand in front of the saw and get sprayed while pushing a rock through the saw. Stand on the opposite side and PULL the rock through the blade. If you do this, the water in the sump will spray away from you instead of soaking you with water. When I've done this, I didn't even have the need to wear a waterproof apron. Next, I believe a 7 inch tile saw will cleanly a rock that is about 1.5". Don't quote me, but it's somewhere near that...I think...I just can't recall. If you have a larger rock, you can roll the rock as it is cut which pretty much doubles your cutting capacity. Since you're prepping the rocks for tumbling, it won't make a difference if your rolled cut isn't totally clean. You're not doing slabs...you're going to tumble the stuff. Lastly, the biggest problem with inexpensive tile saws is the sump (the basin that holds the water) has a finite capacity. As the blade turns through the basin, the blade picks up water while it is wetted, with the end result being the water level goes down. I wasn't happy with that type of setup, so I looked for a way to allow for water to be added while I did all of my cutting. As such, I came up with this... I found what is called a bulkhead hose fitting which allowed me to attach a hose to the side of the sump. Using a shutoff where I could meter water, I could spray a gentle stream from a hose directly on the blade, and water would continually fill the sump. With this, I never had to stop the saw to add more water for lubrication. Here are a couple photos...   Hope this helps a bit more. Good luck. ETA: I can't take credit for this cutting procedure. I learned it from Garage Rocker |
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jamesp
Cave Dweller
Member since October 2012
Posts: 36,642
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Post by jamesp on Oct 4, 2023 9:02:20 GMT -5
Like Hank says, if you have the luxury of using a 14" or larger rock saw it is hard to beat cutting 4 to 10 pound rocks into 3/4 to 1 inch slabs before taking a hammer to your rock. This certainly reduces fractures and gives the hammer man better control. For smaller rocks a tile saw does well. A super nice agate or hunk of pet wood is just to valuable to me to beat on with a hammer when if it is over 3 to 4 pounds in size and awkward to break with a hammer without getting poorly shaped and/or fractured tumbles.
Sometimes it is better to order rocks already broken to tumble size if the supplier does a good job making good tumble shapes. The supplier has taken the hit for much of the waste. Or he may send you junk...
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Post by rmf on Oct 4, 2023 17:45:10 GMT -5
dillonf if you live near TN I have a rock crusher.
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Maybe you can post some pictures here