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Post by miket on Oct 5, 2023 12:55:29 GMT -5
So I'm thinking about getting a saw and I'm looking for recommendations.
I'd like to get a slaw for cutting slabs, maybe a 10".
I don't know if I should get oil or water, auto-feed or what.
Maybe something mid-range.
Any suggestions are appreciated!
🙂
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Post by Starguy on Oct 5, 2023 15:21:25 GMT -5
Think about what you want to cut now and into the future. If you want to cut up rocks to see what’s inside or for developing tumbler feed, a 6-10” saw, hand pushed will work nice. A 10” saw will cut 3” nodules all day but a 4” nodule will be a chore. If you want to cut slabs for cabbing, an auto-feed saw with cross feed screw will yield consistent thickness of the slabs. You can set and forget most auto-feed saws but I always like to stay within earshot.
Used lapidary equipment is unreasonably priced right now. New isn’t any better but at least you won’t be buying something that is already worn out. If you’re comfortable inspecting mechanical stuff, you can find some good used deals. Most saws are pretty simple and can be rebuilt if you have all the parts.
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Post by miket on Oct 5, 2023 17:34:03 GMT -5
Think about what you want to cut now and into the future. If you want to cut up rocks to see what’s inside or for developing tumbler feed, a 6-10” saw, hand pushed will work nice. A 10” saw will cut 3” nodules all day but a 4” nodule will be a chore. If you want to cut slabs for cabbing, an auto-feed saw with cross feed screw will yield consistent thickness of the slabs. You can set and forget most auto-feed saws but I always like to stay within earshot. Used lapidary equipment is unreasonably priced right now. New isn’t any better but at least you won’t be buying something that is already worn out. If you’re comfortable inspecting mechanical stuff, you can find some good used deals. Most saws are pretty simple and can be rebuilt if you have all the parts. Thanks Brent. I'm wanting to cut slabs for cabbing and some of the material would probably be bigger than 4" based on stuff I've cut in the past on my tile saws. Auto-feed might be the way to go and I think I'd want to go new- like I said, maybe a mid-range saw. Any ideas of a saw that might fall into those guidelines? Thanks again. |
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Post by aDave on Oct 5, 2023 17:34:12 GMT -5
So I'm thinking about getting a saw and I'm looking for recommendations. I'd like to get a slaw for cutting slabs, maybe a 10". I don't know if I should get oil or water, auto-feed or what. Maybe something mid-range. Any suggestions are appreciated! 🙂 I can't help with your saw questions, but if you end up searching, you might want to reach out to Tony catmandewe to see what he might have. |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 5, 2023 21:11:59 GMT -5
miketI've been looking around for ideas on how to upgrade from my 6" as well. HP's 14" drop saw is by far the best value I could find for a new saw. A few weeks ago another RTH member had mentioned they had some vibration/flexing issues with the base, so I'd do a bit more research. I've been keeping an eye out for something used in Texas, but I haven't had any luck.
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Post by Starguy on Oct 5, 2023 22:50:05 GMT -5
miketI’ve got a 16” Covington with auto-feed. It’s been a good saw but it’s pretty light duty. I wish I would have saved longer and bought the 18”. I think 18” is kind of the start for a professional saw. If you have the opportunity to help someone run their slab saw, it will help you learn a lot of little tricks. There’s a little bit of a learning curve for auto-feed saws. I’m looking forward to see what you get.
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QuailRiver
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since May 2008
Posts: 1,640
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Post by QuailRiver on Oct 6, 2023 1:22:07 GMT -5
I have 10", 12" 14", 18" and 20" slab saws and use them to cut slabs for cabbing. And for that purpose I have found that the 14" and 18" are by far the most useful.
When choosing a saw it is important to realize that just because a rock can fit in the saw's vise and the height of the blade above the vise is definitive doesn't mean that the saw can handle cutting just any ole rock that fits the saw's parameters. While using my 14" saw with a good quality well dressed blade I may be able to cut at max a 4.5" tall piece of medium hardness cabbing material like Unakite or Epidote while the same saw and well dressed blade may strain cutting only a 3.5" tall piece of a really hard material like Kentucky Agate or Madagascar Polychrome Jasper. And with a "meh" quality blade or even a good quality blade with a worn kerf, I won't even be able to do that. If I had to choose just one between the 14" and 18" saw I would choose the 14" as being the most practical for general use.
The price of new lapidary equipment has really skyrocketed the last couple of years. I purchased my Lortone 12" and 14" saws new several years ago but the Raytech 10", Lortone 18" and Covington 20" saws I purchased used and don't regret it. Heck the 18" Lortone saw I have is an early 1970s model so is a round 50 years old but is still a great workhorse saw. Parts are still available for Raytech and Covington saws from the original manufactures. And most Lortone, Frantom and Highland Park saw parts are still available from HP Lapidary. So even if doing over again I would not hesitate to buy any of the old USA made used saws mentioned as long as they weren't rust buckets or caked with 20 year old dried hard oil/rock sludge [with the exceptions of the Covington 10" and Covington 16" saws which IMO have design flaws that effect performance (no offense Starguy)].
When cutting slabs IMO regardless of blade size always use oil for slabbing all materials except for the very soft ones that are porous and tend to absorb oil and discolor - materials like Howlite, some Malachite, some of the lesser silcated Chryscolla etc.. With 12" and smaller saws you can manage to slab most materials with water but with harder materials you will be replacing blades frequently and causing premature wear and tear on your equipment.
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Post by parfive on Oct 6, 2023 3:09:50 GMT -5
I’ll second Larry’s 14” recommendation.
I think you’d end up regretting a 10, an 18 is too big for casual use, and 14 pretty much hits the sweet spot.
[Cutting depth’s just under 5 ½“ before it hits the flange washers on mine.]
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 6, 2023 3:40:21 GMT -5
I agree on the 14" saw, probably best size till it's not big enough. I have a FranTom 14 and right now I'm running a 12" blade in it, mostly because I had a lot of them. Also a long time between changing oil when it's so deep that all the solids settle out. You can also run a 16" blade in most 18" saws, and so on.
As to used saw pricing, they are rising a lot slower than fuel, food, and housing.
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Post by miket on Oct 6, 2023 6:33:15 GMT -5
miket I’ve got a 16” Covington with auto-feed. It’s been a good saw but it’s pretty light duty. I wish I would have saved longer and bought the 18”. I think 18” is kind of the start for a professional saw. If you have the opportunity to help someone run their slab saw, it will help you learn a lot of little tricks. There’s a little bit of a learning curve for auto-feed saws. I’m looking forward to see what you get. A lot of thinking to do, thanks again. I have 10", 12" 14", 18" and 20" slab saws and use them to cut slabs for cabbing. And for that purpose I have found that the 14" and 18" are by far the most useful. When choosing a saw it is important to realize that just because a rock can fit in the saw's vise and the height of the blade above the vise is definitive doesn't mean that the saw can handle cutting just any ole rock that fits the saw's parameters. While using my 14" saw with a good quality well dressed blade I may be able to cut at max a 4.5" tall piece of medium hardness cabbing material like Unakite or Epidote while the same saw and well dressed blade may strain cutting only a 3.5" tall piece of a really hard material like Kentucky Agate or Madagascar Polychrome Jasper. And with a "meh" quality blade or even a good quality blade with a worn kerf, I won't even be able to do that. If I had to choose just one between the 14" and 18" saw I would choose the 14" as being the most practical for general use. The price of new lapidary equipment has really skyrocketed the last couple of years. I purchased my Lortone 12" and 14" saws new several years ago but the Raytech 10", Lortone 18" and Covington 20" saws I purchased used and don't regret it. Heck the 18" Lortone saw I have is an early 1970s model so is a round 50 years old but is still a great workhorse saw. Parts are still available for Raytech and Covington saws from the original manufactures. And most Lortone, Frantom and Highland Park saw parts are still available from HP Lapidary. So even if doing over again I would not hesitate to buy any of the old USA made used saws mentioned as long as they weren't rust buckets or caked with 20 year old dried hard oil/rock sludge [with the exceptions of the Covington 10" and Covington 16" saws which IMO have design flaws that effect performance (no offense Starguy)]. When cutting slabs IMO regardless of blade size always use oil for slabbing all materials except for the very soft ones that are porous and tend to absorb oil and discolor - materials like Howlite, some Malachite, some of the lesser silcated Chryscolla etc.. With 12" and smaller saws you can manage to slab most materials with water but with harder materials you will be replacing blades frequently and causing premature wear and tear on your equipment. Thanks for the detailed answer! Sounds like 14" might be the way to go and might have to rethink used... I’ll second Larry’s 14” recommendation. I think you’d end up regretting a 10, an 18 is too big for casual use, and 14 pretty much hits the sweet spot. [Cutting depth’s just under 5 ½“ before it hits the flange washers on mine.] Thanks! I agree on the 14" saw, probably best size till it's not big enough. I have a FranTom 14 and right now I'm running a 12" blade in it, mostly because I had a lot of them. Also a long time between changing oil when it's so deep that all the solids settle out. You can also run a 16" blade in most 18" saws, and so on. As to used saw pricing, they are rising a lot slower than fuel, food, and housing. Thanks, I'm going to start looking around. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 6, 2023 12:32:30 GMT -5
What is a worn out saw? Can they even be worn out? A water saw or a poorly stored saw could rust out I suppose. Some of the older saws with the welded up vice carriages and holes drilled for rails could get so sloppy that they are unusable, but even then is fixing them more cost effective than replacing? Cast iron or aluminum vices can break, possibly to where they would be difficult to repair for most people. Some saws have a proprietary blade arbor that would require a machine shop to replace without a redesign to make off the shelf parts work. Original saw wiring is often pretty bad, I have a pretty universal fix for that of running the switch to a receptacle so that everything is enclosed and the blade and feed motors can simply be unplugged to change them when needed. I could go on with under engineered or poorly engineered saws that frustrate the less mechanical people, Covington and Lortone come to mind, and the scads of home built plywood kit saws. My current project 20" Spartan had an under built tub that could theoretically flex under stress, and is getting stiffeners along with a handful of other changes that I am photo documenting just for fun. I got that one fairly cheap but by the time I'm done I'm pretty sure I'll be paying myself about minimum wage for my labor when/if I sell it, even at todays prices. Behind it is the 12" Alti, which is more like a bizarre cyber-punk art piece than a saw, plan to fabricate some equally unique and "interesting" parts to attempt to make it usable. A thread on what to look for when buying used saws would be nice, perhaps catmandewe Tony could help, I think he has seen them all and has more insight than most of us having had them all apart on his shop floor at some time or another. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 7, 2023 8:34:19 GMT -5
Definitely rethink things Mike...I have a feeling you won't be satisfied with a 10" at all. Even with a 14-18" saw there are going to be times when a rock won't fit...but they'll be a lot fewer times than if you had the 10".
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brybry
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Member since October 2021
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Post by brybry on Oct 7, 2023 10:03:23 GMT -5
I have a 7" for cutting tumble rough, a 10" for cutting small slabs and a 24" I use either a 20" or 24" blade on for larger slabs or cutting down larger rocks so I can use the 10" to cut slabs.
If I was to change anything it would be getting a 14" instead of the 10". I love my 10" but there are times that I need a extra inch or 2 on a rock and Magnus Porcus is overkill.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 7, 2023 11:58:14 GMT -5
I have a 7" for cutting tumble rough, a 10" for cutting small slabs and a 24" I use either a 20" or 24" blade on for larger slabs or cutting down larger rocks so I can use the 10" to cut slabs. If I was to change anything it would be getting a 14" instead of the 10". I love my 10" but there are times that I need a extra inch or 2 on a rock and Magnus Porcus is overkill. More is better... Says the guy with 8 slab saws and something like 4 or 5 trim saws |
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Post by miket on Oct 8, 2023 8:20:00 GMT -5
I have a 7" for cutting tumble rough, a 10" for cutting small slabs and a 24" I use either a 20" or 24" blade on for larger slabs or cutting down larger rocks so I can use the 10" to cut slabs. If I was to change anything it would be getting a 14" instead of the 10". I love my 10" but there are times that I need a extra inch or 2 on a rock and Magnus Porcus is overkill. More is better... Says the guy with 8 slab saws and something like 4 or 5 trim saws  |
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Post by jasoninsd on Oct 8, 2023 9:47:37 GMT -5
More is better... Says the guy with 8 slab saws and something like 4 or 5 trim saws   |
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Rockyy
starting to shine!
Member since August 2023
Posts: 47
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Post by Rockyy on Oct 8, 2023 13:53:08 GMT -5
A thread on what to look for when buying used saws would be nice, perhaps catmandewe Tony could help, I think he has seen them all and has more insight than most of us having had them all apart on his shop floor at some time or another. I think that is a great idea. There are a lot of us out here that are halfway mechanical but as mentioned there are quite a few little things in a saw that could become big things if not addressed. I recently bought a 10" inch saw which, if I was right in the head, I never in a million years would have got if I would have just looked at it a little closer and maybe done some research. Bad design and engineering and maybe one of only a couple made by some place in Semi Valley but...........I got her and she's mine. Anyway....good idea. |
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Oct 8, 2023 17:04:13 GMT -5
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Post by jfarmhotrodmomma on Nov 12, 2024 8:48:13 GMT -5
miket I’ve got a 16” Covington with auto-feed. It’s been a good saw but it’s pretty light duty. I wish I would have saved longer and bought the 18”. I think 18” is kind of the start for a professional saw. If you have the opportunity to help someone run their slab saw, it will help you learn a lot of little tricks. There’s a little bit of a learning curve for auto-feed saws. I’m looking forward to see what you get. A lot of thinking to do, thanks again. I have 10", 12" 14", 18" and 20" slab saws and use them to cut slabs for cabbing. And for that purpose I have found that the 14" and 18" are by far the most useful. When choosing a saw it is important to realize that just because a rock can fit in the saw's vise and the height of the blade above the vise is definitive doesn't mean that the saw can handle cutting just any ole rock that fits the saw's parameters. While using my 14" saw with a good quality well dressed blade I may be able to cut at max a 4.5" tall piece of medium hardness cabbing material like Unakite or Epidote while the same saw and well dressed blade may strain cutting only a 3.5" tall piece of a really hard material like Kentucky Agate or Madagascar Polychrome Jasper. And with a "meh" quality blade or even a good quality blade with a worn kerf, I won't even be able to do that. If I had to choose just one between the 14" and 18" saw I would choose the 14" as being the most practical for general use. The price of new lapidary equipment has really skyrocketed the last couple of years. I purchased my Lortone 12" and 14" saws new several years ago but the Raytech 10", Lortone 18" and Covington 20" saws I purchased used and don't regret it. Heck the 18" Lortone saw I have is an early 1970s model so is a round 50 years old but is still a great workhorse saw. Parts are still available for Raytech and Covington saws from the original manufactures. And most Lortone, Frantom and Highland Park saw parts are still available from HP Lapidary. So even if doing over again I would not hesitate to buy any of the old USA made used saws mentioned as long as they weren't rust buckets or caked with 20 year old dried hard oil/rock sludge [with the exceptions of the Covington 10" and Covington 16" saws which IMO have design flaws that effect performance (no offense Starguy)]. When cutting slabs IMO regardless of blade size always use oil for slabbing all materials except for the very soft ones that are porous and tend to absorb oil and discolor - materials like Howlite, some Malachite, some of the lesser silcated Chryscolla etc.. With 12" and smaller saws you can manage to slab most materials with water but with harder materials you will be replacing blades frequently and causing premature wear and tear on your equipment. Thanks for the detailed answer! Sounds like 14" might be the way to go and might have to rethink used... I’ll second Larry’s 14” recommendation. I think you’d end up regretting a 10, an 18 is too big for casual use, and 14 pretty much hits the sweet spot. [Cutting depth’s just under 5 ½“ before it hits the flange washers on mine.] Thanks! I agree on the 14" saw, probably best size till it's not big enough. I have a FranTom 14 and right now I'm running a 12" blade in it, mostly because I had a lot of them. Also a long time between changing oil when it's so deep that all the solids settle out. You can also run a 16" blade in most 18" saws, and so on. As to used saw pricing, they are rising a lot slower than fuel, food, and housing. Thanks, I'm going to start looking around. I just recently got a 16" Covington Engineering slab/trim combo saw used, but like new, and am loving it! But, then again, I had been using a 7" wet tile saw for a long time so am exceedingly happy with my purchase. I also got a smaller (maybe Lortone.. have to look closer. It's dark gray with a white base) trim saw, a large (think the brand was "Thumblers". Haven't used quite yet) vibrating tumbler, and a Covington belt sander (think is the right term). All came with lots of extra new blades for both saws, and tumbling media (as well as walnut shells) for tumbler, and last (but not least) TONS of beautiful material that I can't imagine what cost the older sweet gentleman. He even threw in a LARGE & HEAVY crazy lace rock that must way 20-30lbs! That I may just keep for a decor piece!! Or possibly sell.. not sure yet. For now, I'll admire it! I normally rockhound all my material myself, but found nothing wrong with him throwing in all the beautiful material and slabs that he had done!!! He showed me some of the cabachons he made, when he could, and they were stunning!! I already had a Cabking 6" that I've been using, and didn't know you could use a belt sander like that. Since it came with the package deal, I may have to see how it does! Came with tons of belts of different grits. I also didn't know that these saws use oil, but I love love love it!!! No more getting splashed with water constantly!!! HAHAHA I wore a poncho to try and get less water on me, after summer. You wouldn't believe it.. I went for just the big saw that they were asking $1500 for, but we agreed on $1000... then the rest came up after talking a while he just kept throwing things in and I couldn't not offer anything more. Think he was willing to just let it go, and wife said "how about 200?" to which I replied "SOLD!". I was SO excited to get such a stellar deal!! I promised it was all going to a great home and that I'd use it often and take really good care of it. I also let them know that I can't express to them just how much it meant to me to get it all and what a difference it would make for me with my beloved hobby!!! |
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Post by jfarmhotrodmomma on Nov 12, 2024 8:50:24 GMT -5
Apologies... I just wrote the long post above. I guess I did it the wrong way.. I now found the quick reply at the bottom here Haha Don't mind me. Still working on my caffeine LOL Hope everyone has a great day!!!
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