rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 6, 2023 10:16:37 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I purchased an oval silver ring setting and want to try and make a cab to fit it. I looked through the tutorials but nothing jumped out at me for the best way to do this. I'm wondering specifically if there's a certain amount over the size of the setting itself that I should start with? I'm assuming I'll shape and keep fitting and keep grinding until it fits, but then do I have to worry about the soft wheels once I have the perfect fit and start to smooth and polish? I don't think they remove anything substantive, but wanted to be sure. Is there anything else I should be aware of? Oh - I dop so I'm wondering how that works, if it even can. Can I try to fit it domed side down? That likely won't be the best way it seems...anyways... Thanks!  |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 6, 2023 10:42:43 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I purchased an oval silver ring setting and want to try and make a cab to fit it. I looked through the tutorials but nothing jumped out at me for the best way to do this. I'm wondering specifically if there's a certain amount over the size of the setting itself that I should start with? I'm assuming I'll shape and keep fitting and keep grinding until it fits, but then do I have to worry about the soft wheels once I have the perfect fit and start to smooth and polish? I don't think they remove anything substantive, but wanted to be sure. Is there anything else I should be aware of? Oh - I dop so I'm wondering how that works, if it even can. Can I try to fit it domed side down? That likely won't be the best way it seems...anyways... Thanks!  That's actually asking a lot. Let me see if I can break it down. Yes, you can dop. Yes, the soft wheels "shouldn't" remove too much from the girdle. You don't need a perfectly precise fit because you need to turn the bezel wire on the ring over the girdle and (maybe, depending on your stone) onto the dome.
When you do a test fit-- lay a piece of dental floss across the bezel cup under the cab. That way you can lift the string ends and pop it out.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 6, 2023 11:49:32 GMT -5
Hi everyone. I purchased an oval silver ring setting and want to try and make a cab to fit it. I looked through the tutorials but nothing jumped out at me for the best way to do this. I'm wondering specifically if there's a certain amount over the size of the setting itself that I should start with? I'm assuming I'll shape and keep fitting and keep grinding until it fits, but then do I have to worry about the soft wheels once I have the perfect fit and start to smooth and polish? I don't think they remove anything substantive, but wanted to be sure. Is there anything else I should be aware of? Oh - I dop so I'm wondering how that works, if it even can. Can I try to fit it domed side down? That likely won't be the best way it seems...anyways... Thanks! That's actually asking a lot. Let me see if I can break it down. Yes, you can dop. Yes, the soft wheels "shouldn't" remove too much from the girdle. You don't need a perfectly precise fit because you need to turn the bezel wire on the ring over the girdle and (maybe, depending on your stone) onto the dome.
When you do a test fit-- lay a piece of dental floss across the bezel cup under the cab. That way you can lift the string ends and pop it out.
I apologize if I'm asking too much. I appreciate your guidance and will just give it a go and see how it works out. Thanks for the tip about the dental floss, I would have never considered that. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 6, 2023 11:51:45 GMT -5
That's actually asking a lot. Let me see if I can break it down. Yes, you can dop. Yes, the soft wheels "shouldn't" remove too much from the girdle. You don't need a perfectly precise fit because you need to turn the bezel wire on the ring over the girdle and (maybe, depending on your stone) onto the dome.
When you do a test fit-- lay a piece of dental floss across the bezel cup under the cab. That way you can lift the string ends and pop it out.
I apologize if I'm asking too much. I appreciate your guidance and will just give it a go and see how it works out. Thanks for the tip about the dental floss, I would have never considered that. You didn't ask too much- I was just wondering if I could cover it all. It kinda goes to silver soldering and cabbing. |
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 6, 2023 11:57:18 GMT -5
I apologize if I'm asking too much. I appreciate your guidance and will just give it a go and see how it works out. Thanks for the tip about the dental floss, I would have never considered that. You didn't ask too much- I was just wondering if I could cover it all. It kinda goes to silver soldering and cabbing. Ohh. Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm not soldering - I've purchased the ring piece/setting, I just need to create a cab to go in it. It has 4 little prongs I can fold over once the cab is set. |
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Post by rockjunquie on Oct 6, 2023 12:00:04 GMT -5
You didn't ask too much- I was just wondering if I could cover it all. It kinda goes to silver soldering and cabbing. Ohh. Sorry, I misunderstood. I'm not soldering - I've purchased the ring piece/setting, I just need to create a cab to go in it. It has 4 little prongs I can fold over once the cab is set. OK, there are settings with a cup, too. I thought that's what you meant. Either or, it should be the same thing. Try to cut a cab without a girdle. It works better for that style. |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller 
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Oct 6, 2023 12:17:50 GMT -5
I’ve done this. To make your life easy. Try to create yourself a cab table that comes to the center of your wheel. A block of wood works. But anything that allows you to easily follow your preform line and keep the shape symmetrical. Understand there will be lots of touch ups. I like to get my shape s close as possible to dropping in the setting on the 80 grit. Then do your fine tuning on the 220. Once it easily drops into the setting (but snugly) then draw your girdle line, dop, and start shaping. The key is for it to fit securely in the setting with no gaps in the end do it appears the cab was created first then the ring was crafted around it.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Oct 6, 2023 12:53:14 GMT -5
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 6, 2023 13:39:42 GMT -5
I’ve done this. To make your life easy. Try to create yourself a cab table that comes to the center of your wheel. A block of wood works. But anything that allows you to easily follow your preform line and keep the shape symmetrical. Understand there will be lots of touch ups. I like to get my shape s close as possible to dropping in the setting on the 80 grit. Then do your fine tuning on the 220. Once it easily drops into the setting (but snugly) then draw your girdle line, dop, and start shaping. The key is for it to fit securely in the setting with no gaps in the end do it appears the cab was created first then the ring was crafted around it. Interesting. I'm trying to picture what you mean by a cab table. Would I put this in the water tray area to hold the cab closer and more steady? |
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 6, 2023 13:43:56 GMT -5
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Oct 6, 2023 13:52:05 GMT -5
I’ve done this. To make your life easy. Try to create yourself a cab table that comes to the center of your wheel. A block of wood works. But anything that allows you to easily follow your preform line and keep the shape symmetrical. Understand there will be lots of touch ups. I like to get my shape s close as possible to dropping in the setting on the 80 grit. Then do your fine tuning on the 220. Once it easily drops into the setting (but snugly) then draw your girdle line, dop, and start shaping. The key is for it to fit securely in the setting with no gaps in the end do it appears the cab was created first then the ring was crafted around it. Interesting. I'm trying to picture what you mean by a cab table. Would I put this in the water tray area to hold the cab closer and more steady? Exactly. I have one I fabricated out of steel doesn’t sit in the stray. But imagine a table or platform that allows you to rest the preform on it an shape it with no dop. I’ll post a pic later tonight |
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 6, 2023 13:53:18 GMT -5
Bezel setting?
If so, I would start by looking for an oval template to match, or just put a piece of paper over and rub with your finger to make an imprint, cut it out, then transfer to a yogurt lid or similar plastic for a template. For matching existing settings I cut the shape till it's almost there, then smooth with the 220 and the 280 soft till I'm happy with it and it will just slide most of the way in with the top down (about 10 degree tapered edge fits but base still slightly oversize). Then I mark the line for the transition from edge to dome at pretty much exactly the depth of the bezel. Then I shape and polish the dome but just very lightly work the transition point, keeping focus on it matching bezel height till it's all through the 600 stage and I'm sure all flat spots are gone. Then I go back to 280 or 600, depending on hardness, and round off that transition point just a little to match what I want the bezel to do and make sure there's enough to hold it securely. Then finish and polish, edges that are covered by the bezel don't need a wet look. After that I remove it from the dop and touch up the bottom edge with a reversed bezel till it fits, 220 works for this. When test fitting a piece of dental floss across the bottom of the setting is helpful to get it back out, and the back bezel at the botton clears any solder or radius at the edge of the setting. Sticky jewelers wax is nice for a handle on the front to test fit.
Hope this helps.
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rocknewb101
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since October 2022
Posts: 1,368
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Post by rocknewb101 on Oct 6, 2023 14:09:44 GMT -5
Bezel setting? If so, I would start by looking for an oval template to match, or just put a piece of paper over and rub with your finger to make an imprint, cut it out, then transfer to a yogurt lid or similar plastic for a template. For matching existing settings I cut the shape till it's almost there, then smooth with the 220 and the 280 soft till I'm happy with it and it will just slide most of the way in with the top down (about 10 degree tapered edge fits but base still slightly oversize). Then I mark the line for the transition from edge to dome at pretty much exactly the depth of the bezel. Then I shape and polish the dome but just very lightly work the transition point, keeping focus on it matching bezel height till it's all through the 600 stage and I'm sure all flat spots are gone. Then I go back to 280 or 600, depending on hardness, and round off that transition point just a little to match what I want the bezel to do and make sure there's enough to hold it securely. Then finish and polish, edges that are covered by the bezel don't need a wet look. After that I remove it from the dop and touch up the bottom edge with a reversed bezel till it fits, 220 works for this. When test fitting a piece of dental floss across the bottom of the setting is helpful to get it back out, and the back bezel at the botton clears any solder or radius at the edge of the setting. Sticky jewelers wax is nice for a handle on the front to test fit. Hope this helps. Oh - good suggestion about the template. That makes sense. Thank you for this info! |
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gemfeller
Cave Dweller
Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059 
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 6, 2023 14:43:23 GMT -5
This is a fairly simple job - done it hundreds of times. First,this is the shape meant by "no girdle." It means a gently slope from the base, also called a girdle:   Use a template closest to the shape of the ring if you have one. Shape your cab, including dome, and test base dimensions against the ring. Trim the base to shape using nothing coarser than a 22o hard wheel, leaving it very slightly on the large side. Finish sanding and test size frequently. Make adjustments as needed. Polish.
If base is still too large it's a simple job to trim a bit more to exact size and repolish.
You may have to trim the prongs slightly and file them to shape, depending on the dome height. A little downward pressure on each prong with a prong pusher after closing them will guarantee a tight fit. Polish prongs and proudly wear your new creation! |
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Post by opalpyrexia on Oct 6, 2023 14:55:47 GMT -5
This is a fairly simple job - done it hundreds of times. First,this is the shape meant by "no girdle." It means a gently slope from the base, also called a girdle: ...
Just to underline what gemfeller has pointed out — you want a gentle slope that curves gently from the base of your cab to the top of the dome. In other words, after doming your cab, don't cut a girdle (like you see on many/most of the cabs on RTH). |
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Post by rmf on Oct 6, 2023 15:23:55 GMT -5
The ring looks like a 12x10 mm this is a standard size on many traditional templates. Mark the stone with a pencil then grind to the line. Except grind 1/32 or so outside the line all the way around. (Note*** you did not say type of material.) If soft stone leave more space. You should be just outside the line by the time you get to the 220 grit.
grind lightly with the 280 just to clear off the scratches from the previous wheel. Once you get down to 600 you do not have to worry too much about over grinding unless it is a soft stone. finish as normal. before setting flatten back on 280 if needed. put a chamfer or round slightly the sharp edge where the back meets the girdle with the 600 grit wheel. This keeps the prongs from chipping the back if it does not fit 100%. One other thing even standard sizes vary from manufacturer so depending on the template maker and the ring maker there may be some variation.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,495
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Post by realrockhound on Oct 6, 2023 15:51:21 GMT -5
Step 1: glue rough stone into ring.
Step 2: throw in tumbler.
Step 3: Watch stone magically shape into place.
Works 0% of the time, every time.
Don’t take that literally 😂
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Post by Starguy on Oct 6, 2023 16:11:08 GMT -5
I ran into a minor problem with my earlier small dome cabs. It’s easy to leave a sharp edge where the dome and the bottom bevel meet, (girdle?). If the sharp edge bites into the metal of the setting, it can knap a flake from the side of the cab. It takes remarkably little pressure to knock a flake off. It’s worse with bezels than with prongs. It can happen when you’re sizing and pre-fitting the cab too. That’s a nice looking ring. Is it sterling? realrockhound Your post gave me a belly laugh. |
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gemfeller
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Member since June 2011
Posts: 4,059
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Post by gemfeller on Oct 6, 2023 16:48:11 GMT -5
I've been cutting cabs for more years than I care to admit. And not until recent years have I run into the confusion over the definition of a stone's girdle.
"The Dictionary of Gems and Gemology," written by the founder of the Gemological Institute of America" is old but reliable. It defines the girdle as "The outer edge or periphery of a fashioned stone." That definition holds true for both cabochons and faceted gems.
I have a problem with the"new" definition of a girdle as the step cut between he base of the cab (girdle) from the dome. I think it's misleading and incorrect. I also know I'll probably lose the argument, at least in this forum. But it just isn't logical when one deals with both cabs and faceted gems.
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Post by Rockoonz on Oct 7, 2023 0:19:19 GMT -5
gemfeller I think they are close to the same thing, at least what I call a girdle. The 90 degree ones that a lot of wire wrappers cut are definitely the outer edge all the way from bottom to top. When it is sloped in to catch a bezel or prongs better I suppose you could say the bottom is the girdle by the stristest GIA definition, but the entire edge is what the setting grabs onto (girds). If a stone cutter is asked to define it, the answer they give will relate entirely to their style of stone, and that is going to vary. There is quite a bit of lapidary terminology that, when I hear it, I just have to ask "wnen you say .... are you referring to ....?" Not arguing, no winners or losers at all
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