kansasguy
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by kansasguy on Nov 24, 2023 2:59:05 GMT -5
Sorry, havent got the pic feature figured out but really no need for this.
So I picked up a 20" mojave ideal recently. They had it wired wrong among other things.
Long story short im pretty sure the people that built these werent nearly as smart as lots of people think.
The vise setup is pretty good for weldments instead of castings and is good enough. The problem im seeing with these saws is they used the large size poly arbor for all of their saws up to the 36". Meaning my 20" blade only has a 3" flange which isnt big enough. Im going to see if I can get the wobble out if not ill be making mods.
The really funny thing is I know someone that has the 36" model and has 3 lightly used but bent blades sitting next to the saw and blamed it on lapidary blades being to thin and now uses a super thick blade thats either a masonary blade or some sort of quarry blade and now he wastes like 3/16" for every cut. We got in a big argument over flange sizes and I told him you cant use a 3" flange on a 36" blade and the correct size would be 9" although you could probably cheat that some. He thinks im out of my mind because youd lose too much cutting depth. The argument ended there but what I wanted to say was youre the one with thousands of dollars in bent blades.
I have an arbor with 4" flanges which I know will work but I havent measured it all out to check for clearance.
Id also like to know why they put a bolt in the drivefeed shaft to lock it down on the support shaft for whichever slot of the 3 speed pulley you use. This clearly defeats the purpose of the design, if it were even intended. The belt will keep it from moving. And if you let the weight of the feed motor free fall onto the belt driving the vise all thread and the blade stops the feedmotor will raise on its own and stop turning the feedshaft. Not the case if you pull the belt tight and tighten the shaft bolt.
Overall Im happy with it but it does need some mods.
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Post by catmandewe on Nov 24, 2023 13:34:11 GMT -5
You can change your flanges, no need to change the arbor.
And yes, larger blades need larger flanges.
Tony
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kansasguy
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by kansasguy on Nov 24, 2023 21:51:33 GMT -5
You can change your flanges, no need to change the arbor. And yes, larger blades need larger flanges. Tony Right but the thing is they designed it for that size flange meaning the vise wont clear larger. I could always raise rock I guess U havent really thot much on it. I have a fullfab shop just dont want to get too carried away. Today I added a belt tensioner and redid the wiring they had the motor running ccw and the belt cris crossed to run cw lol. Fort the motor was reversable. Of course thanks to raytech I guess you can run them backwards but they have a different vise so im sticking with tradional. The tank is 1" plywood but I really like the hood its 3/16" plate aluminum super heavy duty and light they did a good job on it. |
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kansasguy
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by kansasguy on Nov 24, 2023 21:53:31 GMT -5
I meant "I" havent really thought much. I did clean up the flange faces and its not super bad. Im going to try it if I dont get bad saw marks im going with it.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 25, 2023 1:53:12 GMT -5
kansasguyIf it's a plywood box then it was sold as a kit and the purchaser built the box. The original Mojave kits and instructions, which BTW were lifted from a DIY saw article in an old lapidary journal, used a pair of pillow blocks for the arbor. I guess the Ideal must have sold as a kit too. Jenkins/Royal saws had a kit option too, so many sad little plywood saws that warp and become useless. Bent blades primarily come from bad alignment or not getting rocks in the vice right, if the saw is set up right the flange size is seldom a problem. Saw tubs that aren't rigid, that bind the blade up by flexing under load, are almost always the culprit if it is a mechanical issue. Your friends saw probably leaves horrendous saw lines in his slabs, because of alignment, not a flange. If his tub is wooden or thin sheet metal, the vice carriage rails may not be level and parallel either, if it's a kit saw it may have been set up with a tape measure and have rails like the ones on a roller coaster, happens a lot. The like new saw in the estate may be unused for a reason.
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kansasguy
off to a rocking start
Member since November 2023
Posts: 9
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Post by kansasguy on Nov 26, 2023 1:43:48 GMT -5
I have the original paperwork "Ideal saws by Mohave Industries" and all the kits are shown with a poly arbor, not pillow blocks. Maybe they switched at some point. Ive also seen similar kits with pillow blocks being called Ideal but there were no decals on them to prove it. So, its not true that ideals only used pillow blocks because I have multiple pics of the literature.
I get the whole plywood rigidity issue and this one is rigid enough I think youre being over critical by far. Not only that, they are a self contained frame like Covington so it doesnt matter you could put legs on the frame and use it as is it doesnt need the box to perform. This isnt to say it will perform as well as high end units.
Also, totally 100% disagree withyour flange size thesis. And so do the blade mfgs ive talked to them more than once about this. Furthermore, blade flanges are also called 'straighteners' for a reason.
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 26, 2023 17:14:35 GMT -5
I have the original paperwork "Ideal saws by Mohave Industries" and all the kits are shown with a poly arbor, not pillow blocks. Maybe they switched at some point. Ive also seen similar kits with pillow blocks being called Ideal but there were no decals on them to prove it. So, its not true that ideals only used pillow blocks because I have multiple pics of the literature. I get the whole plywood rigidity issue and this one is rigid enough I think youre being over critical by far. Not only that, they are a self contained frame like Covington so it doesnt matter you could put legs on the frame and use it as is it doesnt need the box to perform. This isnt to say it will perform as well as high end units. Also, totally 100% disagree withyour flange size thesis. And so do the blade mfgs ive talked to them more than once about this. Furthermore, blade flanges are also called 'straighteners' for a reason. I believe I said that the Mojave DIY instructions used pillow blocks, it was clearly not a statement about Ideal saws other than they were also made by Mojave. I saw my first, to my rememberance, Ideal saw at the Prineville show this year. It had a lucite acrylic hood like a HP saw that looked good enough to be a factory job. I am a big fan of the monolithic rigid saw insert that theoretically won't flex under load. The vice carriage rails have to be firmly connected to the arbor bearing support and it has to have rigid support on the right side of the saw as well. Most of the good saws use the tub for some of that, but some have sheet metal tubs and wholly insufficient frames. I am finishing a saw with a 14ish gauge tub right now, if I placed my dial gauge in the vice and zeroed it against the blade like I was aligning or checking for runout, then lifted a corner of the saw, the gauge would move a lot. Simply welding angle iron to tie the front and rear together on the right side of the saw eliminated the excess flex. I estimate I have had something over 50 larger slab saws pass through my hands, and a few more than that I have helped people with over the years. So basically a rank amateur compared to Tony catmandewe, but I learned a couple things. I can say that 100% of my experience with probably 6 or 8 wood tub saws involved really sad saw owners. I have purchased a couple, but they all were promptly disassembled and parts boxed for other saw repairs. As far as blade flanges go, I agree that they will allow someone to have a longer blade life expectancy on a horribly misaligned saw and possibly save a blade from crashing when the rock is improperly clamped in the vice and spits out. The saw I mentioned above is a 20" Spartan, they used a big flange set that I had to turn down about 0.125 because the original pillow blocks were a lower profile you can't get anymore, also had to enlarge the arbor hole in the tub upwards and fabricate a seal holder for the tub to prevent leaks. Still bigger than 3", and since your saw has guaranteed issues your plan to go larger is best you can do. Personally I would bolt it down to as level a slab as possible and never move it, I may be able to tell you how to level your rails with a laser or machinists level and shims, I can almost guarantee they have a twist in them. |
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Post by Rockoonz on Nov 26, 2023 17:17:50 GMT -5
Check Covington for excellent aluminum flanges, they will machine them to order as well, within reason.
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