mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 167
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Post by mgroothuis on Dec 13, 2023 18:18:19 GMT -5
I started two 6lb barrels on Halloween (RED FLAG in hindsight!! haha). A while back, I wondered if there was less or more undercutting in a rotary vs. vibe. Clearly in a 6lb rotary, it's worse. In the first barrel, I started all rocks expecting undercutting, but this is awful. Far worse than I expected. The second barrel had one huge Yooperlite with 5 smaller ones. The larger one did get a shine, but undercut pretty badly. The smaller ones are surprisingly completely dull. After the initial rough stage, the process for each barrel was: All barrels 2/3-3/4 full with ceramics as filler. - 6 tbsp 120/220 for 13 days. 24 hour burnish with Borax. - 6 tbsp 500AO for 14 days. 24 hour burnish again with Borax. - 6 tbsp AO polish (Rock Shed) for 14 days, with a 24 hour burnish with 2 tbsp Borax. Either I did something wrong, or it was just the intentional poor mixture of rocks, expecting undercutting. I was most surprised that the red feldspar/unakite didn't even take a good shine.
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Post by chris1956 on Dec 13, 2023 19:39:06 GMT -5
Wow, that looks very familiar. I had accumulated several large rocks that were too big for the vib. It was getting to the point where my 12 lb Lortone barrel was getting kind of thin, so I got a new 12 pound barrel and ran the large rocks, some smaller ones and ceramic filler through 220, 500 and micro alumina. I only ran for one week each but my rocks (including one piece of unakite) looked almost the same as yours as far as polish goes. When I saw the lack of shine my first thought was that the 12 pound barrel is just too punishing on rocks (especially with larger rocks) to get a good shine. But I am pretty sure I made a run all the way through when my original barrel was new and it turned out ok. I think the water was about what I would normally do (to bottom of rocks on top). Haven't figured it out but kind of decided that if it can't fit in the vib, it is going to go under the saw.
It might be interesting to make a run with more water than normal to see if it cushions the rocks more. is your barrel a Lortone? The small stones in the background look polished. Or were they wet?
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Mark K
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2012
Posts: 2,818
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Post by Mark K on Dec 13, 2023 19:56:36 GMT -5
You still had some 500 +/- in the polish stage.
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Dec 13, 2023 20:24:49 GMT -5
It looks to me like they need more time in coarse grind? I would say a month minimum. I'd add a pre-polish stage, and fill the barrel to 80% full with rock and media for polish and pre-polish stages.
It also looks like you have several hounded rocks that may be difficult to polish - they look similar to rocks I've hounded over time.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 167
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Post by mgroothuis on Dec 14, 2023 6:37:25 GMT -5
Wow, that looks very familiar. I had accumulated several large rocks that were too big for the vib. It was getting to the point where my 12 lb Lortone barrel was getting kind of thin, so I got a new 12 pound barrel and ran the large rocks, some smaller ones and ceramic filler through 220, 500 and micro alumina. I only ran for one week each but my rocks (including one piece of unakite) looked almost the same as yours as far as polish goes. When I saw the lack of shine my first thought was that the 12 pound barrel is just too punishing on rocks (especially with larger rocks) to get a good shine. But I am pretty sure I made a run all the way through when my original barrel was new and it turned out ok. I think the water was about what I would normally do (to bottom of rocks on top). Haven't figured it out but kind of decided that if it can't fit in the vib, it is going to go under the saw. It might be interesting to make a run with more water than normal to see if it cushions the rocks more. is your barrel a Lortone? The small stones in the background look polished. Or were they wet? I, too, ran a successful polish in a larger barrel, but it was only a single fist-sized rock with ceramics. I used the same method as this and it was nicely glossy. So this baffles me. I'm using Lortone barrels. The small stones in the background were a different batch. They just came out of the Lot-o. I've tried single large stones in the Lot-o before with ceramics, even ones I have to stretch the opening a bit, and the turned out great.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 167
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Post by mgroothuis on Dec 14, 2023 6:40:24 GMT -5
You still had some 500 +/- in the polish stage. Very possible.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 167
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Post by mgroothuis on Dec 14, 2023 6:44:37 GMT -5
It looks to me like they need more time in coarse grind? I would say a month minimum. I'd add a pre-polish stage, and fill the barrel to 80% full with rock and media for polish and pre-polish stages. It also looks like you have several hounded rocks that may be difficult to polish - they look similar to rocks I've hounded over time. I only started these after several weeks of course grind until they were smooth. You're right about the hounded rocks. These were specifically ran together because I thought they might undercut. A couple are softer than others, but I still expected the harder unakite and synite to gloss up, minus the undercutting. Not so! haha Time to try again. I hate/love this hobby sometimes.
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RockyBeach
spending too much on rocks
Member since July 2023
Posts: 342
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Post by RockyBeach on Dec 15, 2023 21:18:39 GMT -5
It looks to me like they need more time in coarse grind? I would say a month minimum. I'd add a pre-polish stage, and fill the barrel to 80% full with rock and media for polish and pre-polish stages. It also looks like you have several hounded rocks that may be difficult to polish - they look similar to rocks I've hounded over time. I only started these after several weeks of course grind until they were smooth. You're right about the hounded rocks. These were specifically ran together because I thought they might undercut. A couple are softer than others, but I still expected the harder unakite and synite to gloss up, minus the undercutting. Not so! haha Time to try again. I hate/love this hobby sometimes. Newbie sees new and unfamiliar terminology and has to ask ... "hounded rocks" : is that referring to rocks you have found yourself and not purchased from a rock shop ?
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Dec 15, 2023 21:22:03 GMT -5
As a rockhound I consider the rocks I collect "hounded". Just sounds more fun that way.
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stefan
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Dec 17, 2023 14:36:03 GMT -5
You chose those because you were worried they would undercut, and they did. I call that a success! Granites, Schists and Gniess are just too much of an unknown to have consistent success. I have tumbled granites that came out amazing, and the exact same looking ones are a flop. As a general rule the dark spots are mica, and will undercut the worse. The reds, oranges and yellow are the feldspar and will polish, but have a cleavage plane so they took can undercut. The whites and greys are quartz and that is where the true magic happens! I think you did very well considering what you had to work with!
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quartzilla
Cave Dweller
Member since April 2020
Posts: 1,240
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Post by quartzilla on Dec 19, 2023 0:21:07 GMT -5
Granites are tough to polish that’s for sure. My favorite stuff to tumble are self collected but sometimes the purchased dedicated tumbling rough from trusted sources blows my self collected stuff outa the water. It’s definitely a learning process!
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Post by Bob on Dec 27, 2023 16:13:19 GMT -5
You chose those because you were worried they would undercut, and they did. I call that a success! Granites, Schists and Gniess are just too much of an unknown to have consistent success. I have tumbled granites that came out amazing, and the exact same looking ones are a flop. As a general rule the dark spots are mica, and will undercut the worse. The reds, oranges and yellow are the feldspar and will polish, but have a cleavage plane so they took can undercut. The whites and greys are quartz and that is where the true magic happens! I think you did very well considering what you had to work with! Agreed! I tumble a lot of those igneous rocks. It's okay to have them mixed with other things, but when one of them doesn't come out of polish nicely, which is often the case, almost all the other rocks with it also don't have a nice shine. In other words, one piece of granite or basalt or the others you mentioned, can ruin the entire polish batch. I've had even one small piece of granite thumbnail size ruin the whole batch when it didn't polish well. As an exception to what I just wrote, often basic jaspers and agates do come out shiny in batches in which a lot of other things have gone wrong. This amazes me when it happens. Guess some of them are really tough. So the safest way is to have only one of them (I think of it as the experimental rock to watch) in a batch of rocks types that you know polish nicely. It you get lucky, all come out great. But with those types, it often doesn't, so you take that one culprit, but it aside and run it next in 1,000 grit to end up with a satiny finish as a keeper. Oddly, doing that almost always results in a better surface than a polish run that failed. After than one culprit is separated, take the "good" ones back to 500 grit or 600 or 1,000 or whatever you use for prepolish, then rerun them in polish and they will come out great and shiny. All that takes time, and some redoing of things, but it's been worth it to me to discover that one igneous rock that from time to time comes out of polish great. Maybe only 10% of them do though.
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mgroothuis
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since November 2022
Posts: 167
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Post by mgroothuis on Dec 29, 2023 19:05:31 GMT -5
You chose those because you were worried they would undercut, and they did. I call that a success! Granites, Schists and Gniess are just too much of an unknown to have consistent success. I have tumbled granites that came out amazing, and the exact same looking ones are a flop. As a general rule the dark spots are mica, and will undercut the worse. The reds, oranges and yellow are the feldspar and will polish, but have a cleavage plane so they took can undercut. The whites and greys are quartz and that is where the true magic happens! I think you did very well considering what you had to work with! For sure, I knew some of these were difficult, but it's my first experience with the entire batch going bad. The third photo with the tight-matrix syenite is the most surprising to me. They were literally matte finish, and those are usually the easiest Yoopers to polish in the Lot-o! Since I posted this, I polished several of these in the Lot-o with the dry corn cob method with a little better results. A little... haha
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