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Post by rmf on Dec 24, 2023 14:48:02 GMT -5
For all cabbers: I quit using dop wax a couple of years ago due to poor commercial dop pots and the time required to redop stones. I have been using Al dops that fix to a handle made by minerken. The dops are attached with CA glue to a cabochon and I remove the glue in acetone. This works great for most stones. I can always fall back to dop wax if needed. However I recently have been considering stabilizing some rocks with Cactus Juice(CJ). When I contacted the maker they said CJ was not soluble in acetone. I found another vendor hawking there "better than CJ" material (due to being crystal clear) and I inquired about it. They stated it is "not soluble" in acetone but CJ is not compatible with acetone because it will dry out and ruin the finish and structure of the CJ. That means it is al least partially soluble or it would not ruin the structure or finish.
So my questions are: 1. is anyone on here using anything different than dop wax or CA glue to dop stones?
2. Has anyone ever tried using elmers glue? I am hoping its solubility would be slow enough that after cabbing I could soak in water for 24hrs and the cabs would come off.
3. any other thoughts recommendations?
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 24, 2023 15:21:30 GMT -5
My dops are dowels with plastic chair glides. I use superglue to attach. To remove, I use an x-acto chisel blade inserted between the dop and the cab, flat side against the dop. I then tap the end of the blade holder with a utility knife. When I don't feel movement, I move the x-acto. No freezing, no popping, just tap, tap.
When the cab is off the dop, I apply acetone with a q-tip and use a chisel blade to scrape off the glue and remove the xtra fine Sharpie lines that I drew on the back. I keep adding acetone until the glue is softened enough to scrape off. Whacking the x-acto knife dulls the blade. A fresh, sharp blade really separates the glue from the cab. It doesn't need to be mush.
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Post by Rockoonz on Dec 24, 2023 16:06:36 GMT -5
I use aluminum dops with cheap HF epoxy, or some tee shaped dops I made with Spectape double sided tape. With the epoxy, when it's time to remove I heat the aluminum with propane or butane and it releases with a gentle tug, and a razor knife removes the residue quickly while it's still warm. The double sided tape pries free with the knife, I usually reserve it for heat sensitive stuff. I think with the CJ I might sand the back to 180 or 220 before dopping, as I usually get the perimeter shape before I dop anyway.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Dec 24, 2023 18:20:20 GMT -5
I actually switched to dop wax for the reason you stated. I’ve been pleasantly surprised and pleased with how well it’s working. I had (during classes) experienced dop wax coming unstuck and heard plenty of horror stories about it as well so I’ve been dragging my feet (for years) trying it at home even though I already had the pot and wax. I’m glad I finally tried it. I now prefer it over super glue because the acetone removal was such a sticky mess and too long of wait. The torch heat trick does work, if you have a metal dop stick. Many of mine though are a dowel with a headed nail in the end and some I can’t get the heat close enough to the nail head without burning the wood dowel. Anyway, thought I’d mention, the trick for me to getting the dop wax to stay stuck to the cab was in pre-heating the cab. I can’t believe no one ever showed me this in the various classes I took. Then I think I saw a YT video where it was shown to sit the cab on the edge of the dop pot while the wax is heating. This preheats the cab so you are putting hot wax on a warm, rather than cold, stone. It works great. No more cabs flying across the garage. To undop I stick it in the freezer for a few minutes and then into a bowl of warm water and the cab just falls off. Pretty sure I saw that trick from Michigan Rocks Jugglerguy Hmm, 🤔 maybe he’s also where I saw the preheating trick(?) Thought I’d mention it in case you also didn’t know about this trick like I initially didn’t. |
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller 
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,483
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Post by realrockhound on Dec 24, 2023 18:48:06 GMT -5
I just use my hands.
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khara
fully equipped rock polisher
Member since September 2022
Posts: 1,979
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Post by khara on Dec 24, 2023 18:55:19 GMT -5
You have any nails or fingerprints left? Dopless cabbers probably make for the best criminals.🤓 |
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Post by stardiamond on Dec 24, 2023 19:08:56 GMT -5
You have any nails or fingerprints left? Dopless cabbers probably make for the best criminals.🤓 I had one lesson with using wax. My instructor gave me some of his special wax and an alcohol lamp. I could only make cabs on the weekend. I got really tired of cabs coming off the dops. It destroyed the workflow and the moment. I went dopless for over 10 years. Even being careful, I would get abrasions on my fingers frequently but I had six days for my fingers to heal. When I retired and the weather was warm enough to grind more often I switched to superglue. |
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gunsil
spending too much on rocks
Member since January 2023
Posts: 345
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Post by gunsil on Dec 24, 2023 19:11:41 GMT -5
Yeah, 18x13 and larger I never dop, just hand hold. Yeah Khara, heating the stones before dopping with wax is key. I never wear my fingerprints, those are gripping the stone but I do sometimes thin a thumb or finger nail. I usually wear surgical gloves while cabbing in cooler weather and I feel the wheel hit the glove before it gets a nail. Really doesn't happen often, only on smaller stones.
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realrockhound
Cave Dweller
Chucking leaverite at tweekers
Member since June 2020
Posts: 4,483
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Post by realrockhound on Dec 24, 2023 19:52:56 GMT -5
You have any nails or fingerprints left? Dopless cabbers probably make for the best criminals.🤓 Still got all 12 fingers and eight toes. Haven’t lost any yet. |
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Post by rmf on Dec 25, 2023 5:16:46 GMT -5
The best "dop pot" I ever had was a tuna fish can with dop wax and a frying pan over Mom's gas stove when I was in high school. I put about 1/4" water just below the back of the upside down cab and the tuna can sat in the water too. Uniform heat just below boiling and wax was hot enough as was the stone. When I got out on my own, neither rental property or my home had gas available so I had to improvise with store bought dop pots. I purchased a collection which had a good dop pot in it that worked but I forgot to turn it off once and it burned out. I bought the Rock Rascal one and it is poor. I got really frustrated with it and went to CA.
I finished two stones for a friend by hand (no dop stick) this past week. I can't do the best job that way the stick gives me greater control.
Thanks to all for comments.
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Post by Jugglerguy on Dec 25, 2023 12:11:24 GMT -5
I used to use Superglue on the head of a large nail. Whether using that or dop wax, I removed the dop stick by putting it in the freezer. Superglue doesn't hold up to cold either. I think I had to let the superglue go overnight in the freezer though. I much prefer wax because it's quicker to attach and remove the stick. Mine usually hold on pretty well, but once in awhile one falls off during cabbing. I usually do several cabs at once and keep the pot hot while I'm working in case one falls off.
Wax doesn't stick to rocks at all in my cool basement unless I preheat the rock. If the rock is cold, the wax hardens almost immediately as it touches the back of the cab and doesn't grab at all.
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Post by liveoak on Dec 26, 2023 7:41:21 GMT -5
I've seen one guy use a toaster over to heat his stones.
Easier to do a lot at one time.
If the tuna can was preferred, I would think an electric hot plate would work just fine.
Once you dialed in the correct setting, it would be less to fool with.
Patty
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Post by jasoninsd on Dec 26, 2023 22:30:14 GMT -5
I took a welding rod and chopped it down into 3" segments. I use those for my dop sticks. I use CA to dop the cabs. I put the dop in my bench vise and use a torch to heat up the metal dop to remove the cabs. Basically the same way as Rockoonz... |
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rockbrain
Cave Dweller
Member since January 2022
Posts: 3,167
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Post by rockbrain on Dec 27, 2023 19:29:39 GMT -5
I used superglue with threaded aluminum rod that would take a 1/4" machine screw in the end. Then went to 3/8" dowels with non waterproof wood glue. I often had cabs come off late in the grinding process after they got soaked. I switched to an Inland Craft dop station. I've done hundreds of cabs and never had a single one come loose. It doesn't get real cold here so that probably helps. Sometimes when I put them in the freezer the cabs have fallen off the sticks when I go to take them out. I use mostly 3/8" dowels but have some 1/4" and 1/2" for smaller and larger stones.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Dec 27, 2023 21:51:33 GMT -5
I use Loctite Super Glue ULTRA Gel Control on wood dowels for dopping. From their website: "RUBBER TOUGHENED: Loctite’s most durable cyanoacrylate super glue resists water, impact, shock, and vibration". Their unique container design makes it easy to apply.
When I'm ready to remove the cabs, I soak them in a mug of hot water. Usually a few will fall off within 1-2 hours, most will fall off by morning, and the laggards can then usually be twisted off their dops.
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Post by chris1956 on Dec 27, 2023 22:00:05 GMT -5
I have always used wood dowels and wax but keep thinking about changing. Maybe this thread will get me going. I have had issues with the dops failing when polishing. I have been wondering if the water makes the wood expand and that is what causes the failure. I don't seem to have failures if I move quickly through the wheels.
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Post by opalpyrexia on Dec 27, 2023 22:29:32 GMT -5
I have always used wood dowels and wax but keep thinking about changing. Maybe this thread will get me going. I have had issues with the dops failing when polishing. I have been wondering if the water makes the wood expand and that is what causes the failure. I don't seem to have failures if I move quickly through the wheels.
You might give the Loctite glue that I use a try. I can't recall a cab falling off when cutting. Sometimes there's a couple weeks delay between dopping and the wheels, or between different wheels. I store the glue in our refrigerator near the ice maker.
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dond
off to a rocking start
Member since September 2023
Posts: 1
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Post by dond on Aug 20, 2024 13:37:09 GMT -5
I have always used wooden dowels - 30 years now. There are a few things that I found out to help keep the cab and dowel together: I use spar varnish on my dowels. Why? Because water soaks into the unvarnished wood and gets behind the wax on the dowel causing a cab/dowel separation. Waterproof your dowels. My mentor had this to say about the proper temperature of the wax: if it doesn't run, it's too cold (as in moldable with your fingers)- if it smokes, it's too hot. Do not boil your wax - you're not making tea. If you get a poor batch of wax that doesn't stick, add a small piece of hot glue to your hot, liquid wax. Start small and increase the amount of hot glue until you are happy with the stickyness (new word). In my view, most dop pots don't get the wax hot enough. Use something that gets really hot but that has some sort of temperature control. Think 1 burner electric hot plate, dental dop pots, even old irons (used for ironing clothes). That way, it is possible to use any color (melting temperature) wax and still get great results. Get your cab as hot as your wax - hot and cold don't mix well. I always let my dopped cabs sit for a few days before grinding. There appears to be a sweet spot in the time between dopping and grinding. Don't be afraid to experiment. That's my 2 cents. Hope it helps someone.
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