rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 4, 2024 2:51:06 GMT -5
Hi! Have some of you been on edge about buying a vibratory tumbler? You have probably heard of the infamous, "Lot-O" tumbler and how it does a great job at polishing rocks.
I think that the MT-4 could be a possible contender. It seems to imitate a lot of the Lot-O's functions. However, you have also probably heard that within the last 5 years or so, the motors have been Burning down the project.
The motors have been un-reliable and have been super rare to find. As rare as a gem(pun intended). It obviously takes time to become a master at tumbling. The MT-4 is not your ordinary tumbler however, it vibrates, but instead of a on-edge motor and that fear of waking up all happy and then you go out to the garage and you see it, suffering, lifeless.
The mini sonic using oscillating electro magnetic pulses to vibrate the drum. Better yet, the hypnotic cyclone effect vibratory tumblers create can be adjusted to make it gentler and slow or fast and furious!
I myself, have stuck to my guns and stayed with my rotary tumblers just like a responsible parent. A common thing that i believe is a misconception is that people think vibratory tumblers can polish rocks better. This is wrong. It all matter on how you do it. You can rotary tumbler some rocks that could end up with a BETTER polish than a vibratory tumbler and vice versa.
I recently read a book about rock tumbling and when I finished it I said, " That only moved me inch closer in a Marathon". I was disappointed. I was expecting a lot of info on vibratory tumblers because I believe that it is pretty hard to learn how to use one, and which one to get.
I want to make this thread for everyone to really learn about how these machines work and how to get a great polish. Because I will tell you what, I got a National geographic hobby tumbler for christmas last year. I found it pretty confusing at first but I understood it. I followed the instructions word for word. You wanna know what I ended up with? A pile of dull rocks. I was heartbroken, after showing my family. It was not what I expected.
Many companies make rock tumbling sound quick and easy. Folks, I gotta tell you the truth, it is not. There are so many factors that can be implied with rock tumbling. But guess what, after looked at those dull rocks I said, "I can fix this and do better"! So I did! I started using rocks with similar hardnessess, I used the 1200 grit Aluminum oxide as polish because I bought a tumbling kit from Polly plastics, I got pretty nice results! When I opened that barrel I was so happy!
Then, a true hero showed up... MICHIGAN ROCKS, ROB ABRAM! This guy is a legend! He devoted all of his knowledge into these fun videos on how to tumble rocks, experiments with rock tumblers, and rock hounding adventures! Rob, I know you will probably never read this but I want to thank you so much for all the information.
So I followed robs tutorials and I ended up with super nice rocks, but I said again, " I can do better". Folks, there is always room for improvement in rock tumbling. I followed robs steps for rotary tumblers but I changed just a couple things, the amount of time. I added two more days to the 2nd stage, and 3rd stage. For the fourth stage I'm thinking about adding in a 1200 or 1000 grit aluminum oxide stage and run it for about 2 weeks and 2-4 days. For the fourth stages time, I might do it for 3-4 weeks instead of two but also maybe add 1 tablespoon of sugar just in case. Then after that I am working on a method to "Hyper polish" rocks up to 100,000 grit.
It is going to be a Trade secret though. Back to vibratory tumblers: Vibratory tumblers do get the final stages done a LOT quicker. I'm not super sure of why but I know that the vibrations cause the rocks to rub against each other a LOT more than a rotary tumbler does.
Another thing is it uses way less grit. This is especially useful for you crush folk who use stuff like Tin oxide or Cerium Oxide. I want people to use this thread as a way to spread as MUCH information as possible about Vibratory tumbling.
I am desperate to know the science behind it and how to get really nice results. please use this thread to share info to me and thousands of others so we can all improve our methods. I would love to own a vibratory tumbler but I am scared that the instructions will be un reliable and I won't end up with good results, I won't find a good video on how to get a competition winning rock tumbled in a vibratory tumbler.
I'm telling you all, the first stage takes enough time, and the horrible itch of wanting to open the barrel and check out those rocks. Like Mr. Abram, I like a lot of my rocks to be free of holes , cracks and chips.
Also, I don't know if there is a motor with identical horsepower, rpm, and size to that of the Lot-O tumbler. I am very surprised Calway has not gone out of business. I don' t know who owns Calway but if any of you know please message me.
I hope this thread will become great use to people like me. To all the professionals out there, please give us your info and opinions on vibratory tumblers and some pictures of rocks you tumbled using a method either you found or came up with. Thanks guys!
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 4, 2024 3:17:07 GMT -5
Hi! Have some of you been on edge about buying a vibratory tumbler? You have probably heard of the infamous, "Lot-O" tumbler and how it does a great job at polishing rocks. I think that the MT-4 could be a possible contender. It seems to imitate a lot of the Lot-O's functions. However, you have also probably heard that within the last 5 years or so, the motors have been Burning down the project. The motors have been un-reliable and have been super rare to find. As rare as a gem(pun intended). It obviously takes time to become a master at tumbling. The MT-4 is not your ordinary tumbler however, it vibrates, but instead of a on-edge motor and that fear of waking up all happy and then u u go out to the garage and you see it, suffering, lifeless. The mini sonic using oscillating electro magnetic pulses to vibrate the drum. Better yet, the hypnotic cyclone effect vibratory tumblers create can be adjusted to make it gentler and slow or fast and furious! I myself, have stuck to my guns and stayed with my rotary tumblers just like a responsible parent. A common thing that i believe is a misconception is that people think vibratory tumblers can polish rocks better. This is wrong. It all matter on how you do it. You can rotary tumbler some rocks that could end up with a BETTER polish than a vibratory tumbler and vice versa. I recently read a book about rock tumbling and when I finished it I said, " That only moved me inch closer in a Marathon". I was disappointed. I was expecting a lot of info on vibratory tumblers because I believe that it is pretty hard to learn how to use one, and which one to get. I want to make this thread for everyone to really learn about how these machines work and how to get a great polish. Because I will tell you what, I got a National geographic hobby tumbler for christmas last year. I found it pretty confusing at first but I understood it. I followed the instructions word for word. You wanna know what I ended up with? A pile of dull rocks. I was heartbroken, after showing my family. It was not what I expected. Many companies make rock tumbling sound quick and easy. Folks, I gotta tell you the truth, it is not. There are so many factors that can be implied with rock tumbling. But guess what, after looked at those dull rocks I said, "I can fix this and do better"! So I did! I started using rocks with similar hardnessess, I used the 1200 grit Aluminum oxide as polish because I bought a tumbling kit from Polly plastics, I got pretty nice results! When I opened that barrel I was so happy! Then, a true hero showed up... MICHIGAN ROCKS, ROB ABRAM! This guy is a legend! He devoted all of his knowledge into these fun videos on how to tumble rocks, experiments with rock tumblers, and rock hounding adventures! Rob, I know you will probably never read this but I want to thank you so much for all the information. So I followed robs tutorials and I ended up with super nice rocks, but I said again, " I can do better". Folks, there is always room for improvement in rock tumbling. I followed robs steps for rotary tumblers but I changed just a couple things, the amount of time. I added two more days to the 2nd stage, and 3rd stage. For the fourth stage I'm thinking about adding in a 1200 or 1000 grit aluminum oxide stage and run it for about 2 weeks and 2-4 days. For the fourth stages time, I might do it for 3-4 weeks instead of two but also maybe add 1 tablespoon of sugar just in case. Then after that I am working on a method to "Hyper polish" rocks up to 100,000 grit. It is going to be a Trade secret though. Back to vibratory tumblers: Vibratory tumblers do get the final stages done a LOT quicker. I'm not super sure of why but I know that the vibrations cause the rocks to rub against each other a LOT more than a rotary tumbler does. Another thing is it uses way less grit. This is especially useful for you crush folk who use stuff like Tin oxide or Cerium Oxide. I want people to use this thread as a way to spread as MUCH information as possible about Vibratory tumbling. I am desperate to know the science behind it and how to get really nice results. please use this thread to share info to me and thousands of others so we can all improve our methods. I would love to own a vibratory tumbler but I am scared that the instructions will be un reliable and I won't end up with good results, I won't find a good video on how to get a competition winning rock tumbled in a vibratory tumbler. I'm telling you all, the first stage takes enough time, and the horrible itch of wanting to open the barrel and check out those rocks. Like Mr. Abram, I like a lot of my rocks to be free of holes , cracks and chips. Also, I don't know if there is a motor with identical horsepower, rpm, and size to that of the Lot-O tumbler. I am very surprised Calway has not gone out of business. I don' t know who owns Calway but if any of you know please message me. I hope this thread will become great use to people like me. To all the professionals out there, please give us your info and opinions on vibratory tumblers and some pictures of rocks you tumbled using a method either you found or came up with. Thanks guys! A suggestion, can you please break these long paragraphs up into multiple paragraphs. My old eyes cannot read this on my laptop screen. It needs breaks. Thanks Henry |
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 4, 2024 6:39:17 GMT -5
Yea I'm sorry lol. It must be hard to read I'm so sorry.
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jimmie
starting to spend too much on rocks
Member since August 2021
Posts: 233
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Post by jimmie on Jan 4, 2024 9:30:59 GMT -5
I have no idea about the science of vibes. I do know it takes way less grit and way quicker. I have a lot-o and 10lb thumler, both do a great job.
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Post by Son Of Beach on Jan 4, 2024 9:35:05 GMT -5
Yea I'm sorry lol. It must be hard to read I'm so sorry. I'm not sure if your intending to be condescending, but it certainly comes off that way.
Your long write ups are bad enough to read, they aren't worth the time in my opinion, regardless of the information.
Just my 
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dillonf
fully equipped rock polisher
Hounding and tumbling
Member since February 2022
Posts: 1,622
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Post by dillonf on Jan 4, 2024 11:52:55 GMT -5
Hi! Have some of you been on edge about buying a vibratory tumbler? You have probably heard of the infamous, "Lot-O" tumbler and how it does a great job at polishing rocks. I think that the MT-4 could be a possible contender. It seems to imitate a lot of the Lot-O's functions. However, you have also probably heard that within the last 5 years or so, the motors have been Burning down the project.
The motors have been un-reliable and have been super rare to find. As rare as a gem(pun intended). It obviously takes time to become a master at tumbling. The MT-4 is not your ordinary tumbler however, it vibrates, but instead of a on-edge motor and that fear of waking up all happy and then u u go out to the garage and you see it, suffering, lifeless. The mini sonic using oscillating electro magnetic pulses to vibrate the drum. Better yet, the hypnotic cyclone effect vibratory tumblers create can be adjusted to make it gentler and slow or fast and furious! I myself, have stuck to my guns and stayed with my rotary tumblers just like a responsible parent. A common thing that i believe is a misconception is that people think vibratory tumblers can polish rocks better. This is wrong. It all matter on how you do it. You can rotary tumbler some rocks that could end up with a BETTER polish than a vibratory tumbler and vice versa. I recently read a book about rock tumbling and when I finished it I said, " That only moved me inch closer in a Marathon". I was disappointed. I was expecting a lot of info on vibratory tumblers because I believe that it is pretty hard to learn how to use one, and which one to get. I want to make this thread for everyone to really learn about how these machines work and how to get a great polish. Because I will tell you what, I got a National geographic hobby tumbler for christmas last year. I found it pretty confusing at first but I understood it. I followed the instructions word for word. You wanna know what I ended up with? A pile of dull rocks. I was heartbroken, after showing my family. It was not what I expected. Many companies make rock tumbling sound quick and easy. Folks, I gotta tell you the truth, it is not. There are so many factors that can be implied with rock tumbling. But guess what, after looked at those dull rocks I said, "I can fix this and do better"! So I did! I started using rocks with similar hardnessess, I used the 1200 grit Aluminum oxide as polish because I bought a tumbling kit from Polly plastics, I got pretty nice results! When I opened that barrel I was so happy! Then, a true hero showed up... MICHIGAN ROCKS, ROB ABRAM! This guy is a legend! He devoted all of his knowledge into these fun videos on how to tumble rocks, experiments with rock tumblers, and rock hounding adventures! Rob, I know you will probably never read this but I want to thank you so much for all the information. So I followed robs tutorials and I ended up with super nice rocks, but I said again, " I can do better". Folks, there is always room for improvement in rock tumbling. I followed robs steps for rotary tumblers but I changed just a couple things, the amount of time. I added two more days to the 2nd stage, and 3rd stage. For the fourth stage I'm thinking about adding in a 1200 or 1000 grit aluminum oxide stage and run it for about 2 weeks and 2-4 days. For the fourth stages time, I might do it for 3-4 weeks instead of two but also maybe add 1 tablespoon of sugar just in case. Then after that I am working on a method to "Hyper polish" rocks up to 100,000 grit. It is going to be a Trade secret though. Back to vibratory tumblers: Vibratory tumblers do get the final stages done a LOT quicker. I'm not super sure of why but I know that the vibrations cause the rocks to rub against each other a LOT more than a rotary tumbler does. Another thing is it uses way less grit. This is especially useful for you crush folk who use stuff like Tin oxide or Cerium Oxide. I want people to use this thread as a way to spread as MUCH information as possible about Vibratory tumbling. I am desperate to know the science behind it and how to get really nice results. please use this thread to share info to me and thousands of others so we can all improve our methods. I would love to own a vibratory tumbler but I am scared that the instructions will be un reliable and I won't end up with good results, I won't find a good video on how to get a competition winning rock tumbled in a vibratory tumbler. I'm telling you all, the first stage takes enough time, and the horrible itch of wanting to open the barrel and check out those rocks. Like Mr. Abram, I like a lot of my rocks to be free of holes , cracks and chips. Also, I don't know if there is a motor with identical horsepower, rpm, and size to that of the Lot-O tumbler. I am very surprised Calway has not gone out of business. I don' t know who owns Calway but if any of you know please message me. I hope this thread will become great use to people like me. To all the professionals out there, please give us your info and opinions on vibratory tumblers and some pictures of rocks you tumbled using a method either you found or came up with. Thanks guys! I have 2 Lot-Os I wouldn't buy one with the FASCO motor. If you can get one with an IMESA motor it is worth it. The FASCO makes using the Lot-O much more difficult, and the motor will most likely die in one year. I am currently modifying one of my Lot-Os to have a concrete motor attached. If I had to do over again I'd get an MT, or UV (but they have been unavailable forever). adam5 runs a UV mini bowl on a raytech machine - this is a very good idea. If I was looking to buy a vibe I might go this route. Lot-Os are great, but (currently) they are expensive and need significant modification to work correctly. |
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Post by Son Of Beach on Jan 4, 2024 19:29:50 GMT -5
Yea I'm sorry lol. It must be hard to read I'm so sorry. I'm not sure if your intending to be condescending, but it certainly comes off that way.
Your long write ups are bad enough to read, they aren't worth the time in my opinion, regardless of the information.
Just my
I will back track my assertion, apparently I was full of piss and vinegar this morning.
Funny how I could read it both ways.... |
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 5, 2024 0:17:09 GMT -5
Yea I'm sorry lol. It must be hard to read I'm so sorry. I'm not sure if your intending to be condescending, but it certainly comes off that way.
Your long write ups are bad enough to read, they aren't worth the time in my opinion, regardless of the information.
Just my
I'm sorry, I did not mean for that to be delivered sarcastic. I write my threads on just what I know. I just spill it out. I did not cross my mind that you could get lost while reading it. I can split it up some more. I would highly suggest you read just in case there is some information you didn't know or if you could possibly snaps see some of my questions. |
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stefan
Cave Dweller 
Member since January 2005
Posts: 14,113
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Post by stefan on Jan 5, 2024 17:56:52 GMT -5
Great questions and interesting thoughts. I want to chime in on the Mini- Sonic as it has been 1 year since I got mine. I have learned so much from Jugglerguy (aka Rob). I started my adventure with the desire to get a Lot-O. Just as I was about to pull the trigger Rob posted the problems he was having and we started to see the motor issues (I LOVE FASCO motors, and that is what runs my Thumler's rotaries as well as the fans on my pellets stove, but in the Lot-O they are garbage). I hesitated and by the time I decided to Rick it, there was not a Lot-O to be found. So here I am ready to dive in, and there's no water in the pool. I "settled" on the Mini Sonic, and searched for info (little available). The directions were questionable (especially with the grit amounts that were recommended). I followed Rob's recipe and got pretty good results, eventually (my time frame was twice as long as Robs). I kept good notes and tweaked my methods. I finally got the great results that I expected, and applied them to the World Tumbling Contest rocks. I placed 4th, so I guess I wasn't quite as perfect as I had hoped. I think what is important is to start with a good baseline, then figure out your own machines quirks (like my polish barrel for my mini sonic holds about 4 ounces less than my other barrel) Oh and FYI I use the 10,000 grit polish and it produces that next level shine. It is pretty pricey so it is saved for the best of the best, but it is an amazing shine. |
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Post by jasoninsd on Jan 5, 2024 22:14:38 GMT -5
rydersrocks - Have you done a search of the forum for Vibratory? I know there's a ton of old threads on here where certain technical aspects of vibes have been talked about...
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geoff59
spending too much on rocks
Member since October 2022
Posts: 288
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Post by geoff59 on Jan 6, 2024 7:02:12 GMT -5
Sometime last summer, I decided that over this winter I would take the vibe-plunge. I deliberately used the time since doing quite a bit of reading up on the various brands of them, trying to decide which one to get. Enough said.
At the moment, the Lot-O is on the 3rd motor manufacturer in just a couple of years.
Thumler seems to have stopped production. And their motors too, seem to be starting to fail among those who own them.
Both of these were among my finalist-list. Along with 1 or 2 other brands.
Currently, pretty much nobody has any vibes in stock it seems. Try to find one! Well, unless you’re okay with severely increased prices (on the rare occasion you find one at all) and busting the budget. So, for now anyway, my plan to add my first vibe has been put on hold, maybe for quite a while. Like you, I’m doing okay still, with my rotary-approach to things.
The small companies that have always made electric motors here in the USA are all closing down, or already have, for a few various reasons, and this whole industry has been changing rapidly. Motor-makers overseas don’t want to even talk to the American little guy any longer, so I am being told; for example the Raytech saw brand is also suddenly unable to buy the motors they have always used, and had no problem being supplied with.
Edit for clarification: Raytech is having supply issues for the motors they use on the small 4” trim saws, they are currently out of stock on them. I’m not sure if it’s the same motor for the slightly bigger saw (is it a 6”? I think so); but when I last spoke with him, he still had motors for the 10” on hand. I realize after rereading what I posted that it didn’t come out exactly right.
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Post by HankRocks on Jan 6, 2024 8:10:59 GMT -5
One problem with some Vibe tumblers is that to achieve vibration, a counterweight is secured to the motor shaft. Basic mechanics says that's a big no no. The motor bearing on the drive end is setup to fail eventually. In the past with heavier duty bearing housing this failure could be put off for a decent amount of time. When my last motor on the UV-18 failed, an autopsy showed that the bearing housings were pressed sheet metal! . That was in contrast to old motors having a much heavier duty housing for the bearings.
I have a friend, who did the autopsy and whom I would call a mechanical savant, re-built the motor and constructed a much heavier system to support the shaft and the counterweight. This is not a practical solution for everyone, but in my case it seems to be working. (If I can motivate myself to take a picture(my kryptonite)of his build I will post it)
Being un-familiar with the Lot-O tumblers I cannot comment on their design, but it seems motor failures have become an issue. Maybe the same basic design as the UV-18?. I do have a 3 bay Mini-sonic which operates on electro-magnetic principal to create vibration. By increasing or decreasing the frequency the vibration amplitude can be changed. I do like it. I do wish the mini-sonic made a bigger barrel with a larger opening to allow for larger rocks. I would buy one today.
I also use a 20 inch Vibe Lap that operates on the same principal as the UV-18, a counterweight connected directly to the motor shaft. The motors have failed in the last few years. I did manage to find the same size motor to fit the Lap. It appeared to be of much better construction than the failed motor and it has lasted longer. The key was the extra heavy duty bearing housing on the drive shaft end. I did manage to find an identical spare that I keep. The plan is to build an indirect drive and isolate the motor from the vibration mechanism by means of a belt. As I have said before, "It's on the list!! I think a couple of the Vendors have Vib-laps not using the weight directly connected to the motor shaft method.
The over seas motors are part of the problem. The other is that most of these motors are built for use in fans which is a balanced load and thus less pressure on the bearings. Why build a heavy duty motor to drive a fan blade. You can save on weight by reducing the amount of metal in the build. The other issue seems to be somewhat poor winding construction. Seen pictures of failed windings that used to never happen on a motor. The use of plastic sleeve bearings is also a contributor to failures.
Does anyone think that the frig they buy today will last 30, 40 or 50 years like the ones that your parents moved to the garage, after purchasing a new one for the house, to serve as the drink cooler and kept running. It's the world we live in!
Henry
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Post by chris1956 on Jan 6, 2024 12:08:31 GMT -5
One problem with some Vibe tumblers is that to achieve vibration, a counterweight is secured to the motor shaft. Basic mechanics says that's a big no no. The motor bearing on the drive end is setup to fail eventually. In the past with heavier duty bearing housing this failure could be put off for a decent amount of time. When my last motor on the UV-18 failed, an autopsy showed that the bearing housings were pressed sheet metal! . That was in contrast to old motors having a much heavier duty housing for the bearings. I have a friend, who did the autopsy and whom I would call a mechanical savant, re-built the motor and constructed a much heavier system to support the shaft and the counterweight. This is not a practical solution for everyone, but in my case it seems to be working. (If I can motivate myself to take a picture(my kryptonite)of his build I will post it) Being un-familiar with the Lot-O tumblers I cannot comment on their design, but it seems motor failures have become an issue. Maybe the same basic design as the UV-18?. I do have a 3 bay Mini-sonic which operates on electro-magnetic principal to create vibration. By increasing or decreasing the frequency the vibration amplitude can be changed. I do like it. I do wish the mini-sonic made a bigger barrel with a larger opening to allow for larger rocks. I would buy one today. I also use a 20 inch Vibe Lap that operates on the same principal as the UV-18, a counterweight connected directly to the motor shaft. The motors have failed in the last few years. I did manage to find the same size motor to fit the Lap. It appeared to be of much better construction than the failed motor and it has lasted longer. The key was the extra heavy duty bearing housing on the drive shaft end. I did manage to find an identical spare that I keep. The plan is to build an indirect drive and isolate the motor from the vibration mechanism by means of a belt. As I have said before, "It's on the list!! I think a couple of the Vendors have Vib-laps not using the weight directly connected to the motor shaft method. The over seas motors are part of the problem. The other is that most of these motors are built for use in fans which is a balanced load and thus less pressure on the bearings. Why build a heavy duty motor to drive a fan blade. You can save on weight by reducing the amount of metal in the build. The other issue seems to be somewhat poor winding construction. Seen pictures of failed windings that used to never happen on a motor. The use of plastic sleeve bearings is also a contributor to failures. Does anyone think that the frig they buy today will last 30, 40 or 50 years like the ones that your parents moved to the garage, after purchasing a new one for the house, to serve as the drink cooler and kept running. It's the world we live in! Henry I figured this was a good time to do an update for the Lot-O that I converted to a concrete vibratory motor after the original motor failed a year ago. forum.rocktumblinghobby.com/thread/101261/lot-tumbler-motor-modifications Hopefully, this link gets you back to my original post on the conversioin. The concrete vibratory motor (ToAuto) has been running (continuously except for a couple vacations) for a year now without issue. One thing you mentioned was that most motors aren't intended to be run with counterweights. The concrete vibratory motors are designed knowing that they will be used with counterweights. I don't think they are going to last forever, but at least (hopefully) they are designed with the counterweight idea in mind. My Lot-O is still running well after a year and providing a great polish on rocks. The only issue I have had is that the new motor created more vibration (you can adjust the amount of vibration at least on the motor I have) when I started and that caused some wear to the outside of the bowl where it contacts with the screws that I added to support the new motor. I used several layers of electrical tape to cover the screws and cushion that contact. I also added electrical tape around the Lot-O metal frame to build that up since my bowl was sinking further into the frame because of the wear. Ultimately, I put rings of electrical tape around the bowl where it was worn and this seems to work well. It is a bit of a mess, and I wouldn't enter it in a beauty contest, but it works. I think I replaced that electrical tape once during the year. I have some of that spray on rubber sealer and may try that at some point. Chris |
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Post by Jugglerguy on Jan 6, 2024 14:04:39 GMT -5
Then, a true hero showed up... MICHIGAN ROCKS, ROB ABRAM! This guy is a legend! He devoted all of his knowledge into these fun videos on how to tumble rocks, experiments with rock tumblers, and rock hounding adventures! Rob, I know you will probably never read this but I want to thank you so much for all the information. Oh, I read it alright. Thanks for the really nice compliment, and you're welcome. Unfortunately I don't have time to add much here. I don't always know why everything works, I'm just trying to figure out how to use the tools I have the best I can. My newer Lot-O and the older one with the new motor are still running fine, by the way. I probably just jinxed myself by saying that, but so far, so good. |
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 6, 2024 17:12:30 GMT -5
Great questions and interesting thoughts. I want to chime in on the Mini- Sonic as it has been 1 year since I got mine. I have learned so much from Jugglerguy (aka Rob). I started my adventure with the desire to get a Lot-O. Just as I was about to pull the trigger Rob posted the problems he was having and we started to see the motor issues (I LOVE FASCO motors, and that is what runs my Thumler's rotaries as well as the fans on my pellets stove, but in the Lot-O they are garbage). I hesitated and by the time I decided to Rick it, there was not a Lot-O to be found. So here I am ready to dive in, and there's no water in the pool. I "settled" on the Mini Sonic, and searched for info (little available). The directions were questionable (especially with the grit amounts that were recommended). I followed Rob's recipe and got pretty good results, eventually (my time frame was twice as long as Robs). I kept good notes and tweaked my methods. I finally got the great results that I expected, and applied them to the World Tumbling Contest rocks. I placed 4th, so I guess I wasn't quite as perfect as I had hoped. I think what is important is to start with a good baseline, then figure out your own machines quirks (like my polish barrel for my mini sonic holds about 4 ounces less than my other barrel) Oh and FYI I use the 10,000 grit polish and it produces that next level shine. It is pretty pricey so it is saved for the best of the best, but it is an amazing shine. Ok! Thank you for responding. I think I will be buying the minisonic. Based on what you said, it seems like a good tumbler. My guess is you could find a really good motor for the Lot-O tumbler. I found a video actually of a guy who attached a pulley system to the back where the weights where and a motor so that the motor would be less associated with the vibrations from it. Here is the video btw. . I have never seen anything like it but it looks really funny. With the polish, I am actually making a method to Hyper polish rocks but I'm keeping it a secret for now. If it works well, I might release it. Thanks! |
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 6, 2024 17:14:40 GMT -5
rydersrocks - Have you done a search of the forum for Vibratory? I know there's a ton of old threads on here where certain technical aspects of vibes have been talked about... Hi! Yea, but I'm a little stupid and lazy so I didn't want to search. I need to probably do a more thorough search to find a good method. There is a lot of different factors that go into making a polish on rocks. Thanks! |
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 6, 2024 17:18:35 GMT -5
Sometime last summer, I decided that over this winter I would take the vibe-plunge. I deliberately used the time since doing quite a bit of reading up on the various brands of them, trying to decide which one to get. Enough said. At the moment, the Lot-O is on the 3rd motor manufacturer in just a couple of years. Thumler seems to have stopped production. And their motors too, seem to be starting to fail among those who own them. Both of these were among my finalist-list. Along with 1 or 2 other brands. Currently, pretty much nobody has any vibes in stock it seems. Try to find one! Well, unless you’re okay with severely increased prices (on the rare occasion you find one at all) and busting the budget. So, for now anyway, my plan to add my first vibe has been put on hold, maybe for quite a while. Like you, I’m doing okay still, with my rotary-approach to things. The small companies that have always made electric motors here in the USA are all closing down, or already have, for a few various reasons, and this whole industry has been changing rapidly. Motor-makers overseas don’t want to even talk to the American little guy any longer, so I am being told; for example the Raytech saw brand is also suddenly unable to buy the motors they have always used, and had no problem being supplied with. Yea, I only got a couple bucks to my name right now but I'm willing to save up. I'm surprised these companies did not go out of business years ago. However, the vibratory tumblers made by Lot-O 10 years ago, lasted a lot longer. So I think there is something being hidden. There has to be a motor that can be used to replace these poorly made motors. Thanks! |
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 8, 2024 22:31:41 GMT -5
Then, a true hero showed up... MICHIGAN ROCKS, ROB ABRAM! This guy is a legend! He devoted all of his knowledge into these fun videos on how to tumble rocks, experiments with rock tumblers, and rock hounding adventures! Rob, I know you will probably never read this but I want to thank you so much for all the information. Oh, I read it alright. Thanks for the really nice compliment, and you're welcome. Unfortunately I don't have time to add much here. I don't always know why everything works, I'm just trying to figure out how to use the tools I have the best I can. My newer Lot-O and the older one with the new motor are still running fine, by the way. I probably just jinxed myself by saying that, but so far, so good. Omg. Wow. Nice to speak to you sir. Thanks, I'm doing the same trying to learn how my equipment works. I'm planning on buying one and modifying it. Or I will just buy a Mini sonic and mount it to a concrete block and see what happens. Thank you! |
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Post by chris1956 on Jan 9, 2024 10:46:47 GMT -5
FYI. The mini MT4 will work fine just sitting on the floor. No concrete block needed like with the Lot-O.
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rydersrocks
starting to spend too much on rocks
Likes rocks of all kinds
Member since January 2024
Posts: 109
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Post by rydersrocks on Jan 9, 2024 11:08:32 GMT -5
Chad at Suva informed me of another manufacturing bottleneck with the minisonic series. "DP is out of hoppers and can't make anymore until around (estimated) April... the weather temps have to be right for the pouring and curing of the plastic material" Wth lol, are they doing this outside in a barn or something? Seems like they're leaving a lot of money on the table by not moving that process into a climate controlled facility. Anyway, my MT-14 is arriving this week (without hopper). I have a few 4 pounder hoppers that will get me by though. Idk about pro-fessional but there are some factors that go into being pro-ficient with the minisonic. What I've noticed with the MT-4 is it can be fussy about the weight, volume, size of stones, amount of water, speed. After playing around with it a bit I saw a movement and rpm that I like and that's what I try to replicate now. Can't handle very large stones unfortunately, they get caught on the notch in the hopper and jam up the load. It really doesn't like dense things like galena. I was tumbling copper with galena and it worked but it was struggling to do it even at max power and less than 2 lb of copper and galena. Which was a very small puddle in the hopper. I think either the vibrations don't transfer as well through heavy stuff, or the volume is too small for the shape of the hopper. I think it's probably more flexible than some tumblers with the how much water you use but it still takes some practice to dial in the slip. Additives can change the consistency and water requirements. It seems to like a certain volume between 1/2 full to as full as you can without jamming up on the notch. This probably goes for any tumbler but having a range of sizes is helpful for filling gaps and transferring the vibrations. 50% smalls or media is probably not too much. Plus some sizes between those smalls and your largest stones. Lastly, the speed dial. I can't imagine vibrating without it. The dial makes all those other factors have a much wider working range. If it's fully loaded and moving too well you can turn it down. Or if the slurry starts to build and slow things you can turn it up instead of adding water to break the slurry. Once you get the hang of it you kind of know what it needs. It's a ancient process used by the employees ancestors for thousands of years. Just as the moon rises, they place all the barrels in a circle, to provide equal love. As they cool, The barrels become won with the stones. Then the employees come out just as the morning dawn, and hum a ancient hum to help persuade the barrels to be at peace. Like I said, ancient process |
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